Air Force updates its dress code policy to include turbans, beards and hijabs

Picton

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Sikhs have been allowed beards and turbans in U.S. military service since long before the uniform standards that are now being updated.
This.

Since the '30s. There have always been exceptions to policy, as long as they're not prejudicial to good order and discipline.

And "uniforms" aren't all that uniform. Units have always had distinguishing uniform items; hasn't affected discipline or efficiency, from what I can tell. Beards have only been verboten since the '80s. and the pro-mask "excuse" is just that; no .00001% chance of using a pro-mask seems like it ought to dictate grooming policy across the entire force.

Not that I like facial hair, myself. But we're not going to lose a war because Joe has a goatee or wears a turban, any more than Joe wearing a maroon beret while his brother at Ft Drum wears a soft cap. BFD. Heck, look at the Brits, who manage to fight pretty well in spite of the fact they've got like 39 million different "uniforms."
 

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While I don't have the book issued to me in Basic 35-10 made no allowance for difference, we were all the same and required to dress,look and groom the same. No beards, turbans .
 

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Sooooo....
Considering space force uniforms....
We can now have Hijabs in Space?
We can don the garb of any aliens we find in space too, as we assimilate them into starfleet academy?

What about Ensign Ro's ear ring?

1581769172558.png
 

Mountain

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In other news:
The U.S. Army will be allowed to incorporate immediately self propelled Russians who want to serve while hiding their solar powered engines.

View: https://youtu.be/XJe_kTmw8X8
Soviet Segway Circus! The chick was kinda hot but seems that the camera man prefers sausage.

No problem with the accommodations so long as there is no interference with mission specific tasks.

And...

Best way to ensure that is to exercise your individuality upon entering the civilian ranks. [rofl2]
 

Picton

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While I don't have the book issued to me in Basic 35-10 made no allowance for difference, we were all the same and required to dress,look and groom the same. No beards, turbans .
No idea about the brand-new policy (and it is the Air Force, so who TF knows), but the earlier policy was that these kinds of clothing waivers don't take effect until after IET.
 
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More of the Obamanization of the US military. Makes me wonder if our readiness is at all near as good as Trump says.
Tell us about your experiences serving on active duty under President Obama. (I’m no fan of the guy by any means, but I’d be hard pressed to point out examples of him f$&@ing up the military)
 
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What could go wrong changing 50+ years of tradition to accommodate what 1%? Of the service.

Like xjma99 said Sikhs are cool. I just hate to see traditions falling.
It's been happening for a while. I have mixed thoughts on the matter. I think for initial training shaved heads and shaved faces to strip you of individualism and identity should be mandatory. Period. Once one enters the force, I think more relaxed standards to accomadate religious dress so long as it doesn't interfere with execution of duties should be allowed. Also, well groomed beards should just be allowed for everyone. I say this because 1. I prefer having a beard and 2. Mustaches are allowed and look ridiculous on everyone all the time.

I do think it's bullshit that certain people would get to "skip" having their heads shaved for basic training, etc. Although I guess women always have been able to.


Tell us about your experiences serving on active duty under President Obama. (I’m no fan of the guy by any means, but I’d be hard pressed to point out examples of him f$&@ing up the military)
There are two things I've seen happen the last decade, granted it has all been guard/reserve side. One is money dried up under Obama. Some if it was probably mismanagement at the unit level, but training went from good to shit. No money for ammo, fuel, keeping vehicles running, etc. One of the bigger travesties was brand new trucks basically being left to rot. This shit happens with aircraft, naval vessels, etc, as well. Now there is a greater debate to be had about how much money our military gets, but I think there's a ton of truth to it being gutted in the Obama years.

Culturally the military has become more progressive. Unfortunately the military is not able to only take the "good" of this and leave the bad. In the current climate, if someone gets raped, they will probably have the backing of their command in putting the perp away. Thats obviously a huge improvement and hugely important. Scum should be routed from the military, not moved around the make commanders look good. On the flipside, the fear of accusations of discrimination, hazing, etc, make what should be a super-cohesive war-fighting environment feel more like an office environment that has people walking on egg-shells. Granted, I went from an infantry unit, to 3-4 years being out of the military, to a non-combat unit, so take my experience for what it's worth. A prime example of this: Less than a year out of the Marine Corps I returned to pin two friends as Sergeant, I was warned by the first Sergeant that if my hands so much as went above the height of their hands for a handshake after the pins had been placed in the collar, I'd be pulled away from the promotion. Rewind 5-6 years earlier and I saw Majors/Lt Colonels Blood Pinning rank on Marines. I get that people take things to far and that's why we can't have "nice things," but mothers of America are alive and well in stripping traditions from the military.
 

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Black stetsons for cavalry, I believe.
Now updated to desert tan.

I was in the 11th ACR (Blackhorse Regiment) in Germany in the '80s. This was after berets and cravats, but "tanker boots" were still the norm -- and still unauthorized by AR 670-1. I also saw lots of Danner boots laced up almost to the knee. Not authorized, but tolerated by the local command, and almost expected for the ring-knockers. I wore my spit-shined Corcoran jump boots and starched BDUs, even though regulations forbid brightly shined boots and starching BDUs.

Today's SOCOM operators are expected to blend in, so they have beards and ignore uniform regulations, with official blessing so long as they do the job.

As they say, no combat-ready unit ever passed inspection, and no inspection-ready unit ever passed combat.
 
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It's been happening for a while. I have mixed thoughts on the matter. I think for initial training shaved heads and shaved faces to strip you of individualism and identity should be mandatory. Period. Once one enters the force, I think more relaxed standards to accomadate religious dress so long as it doesn't interfere with execution of duties should be allowed. Also, well groomed beards should just be allowed for everyone. I say this because 1. I prefer having a beard and 2. Mustaches are allowed and look ridiculous on everyone all the time.

I do think it's bullshit that certain people would get to "skip" having their heads shaved for basic training, etc. Although I guess women always have been able to.




There are two things I've seen happen the last decade, granted it has all been guard/reserve side. One is money dried up under Obama. Some if it was probably mismanagement at the unit level, but training went from good to shit. No money for ammo, fuel, keeping vehicles running, etc. One of the bigger travesties was brand new trucks basically being left to rot. This shit happens with aircraft, naval vessels, etc, as well. Now there is a greater debate to be had about how much money our military gets, but I think there's a ton of truth to it being gutted in the Obama years.

Culturally the military has become more progressive. Unfortunately the military is not able to only take the "good" of this and leave the bad. In the current climate, if someone gets raped, they will probably have the backing of their command in putting the perp away. Thats obviously a huge improvement and hugely important. Scum should be routed from the military, not moved around the make commanders look good. On the flipside, the fear of accusations of discrimination, hazing, etc, make what should be a super-cohesive war-fighting environment feel more like an office environment that has people walking on egg-shells. Granted, I went from an infantry unit, to 3-4 years being out of the military, to a non-combat unit, so take my experience for what it's worth. A prime example of this: Less than a year out of the Marine Corps I returned to pin two friends as Sergeant, I was warned by the first Sergeant that if my hands so much as went above the height of their hands for a handshake after the pins had been placed in the collar, I'd be pulled away from the promotion. Rewind 5-6 years earlier and I saw Majors/Lt Colonels Blood Pinning rank on Marines. I get that people take things to far and that's why we can't have "nice things," but mothers of America are alive and well in stripping traditions from the military.
Yeah, fair enough. I kind of forgot (blacked out) those no-money-for-fuel days. And I agree that the pendulum may have swung too far with the sexual assault stuff, but I can’t claim to be smart enough to know where the appropriate middle ground is there. You’re correct, we need to kick those f***ers as far from a uniform as we can, but being over sensitive to the problem can hurt unit cohesion. I honestly don’t know where the middle ground is, but I hope someone smarter than me figures it out.

Funny that you mention pinning - a guy that works for me just earned his Coxswain pin a few weeks ago, and another Motor Lifeboat Coxswain playfully smacked his pin, assuming it had the “turtles” on the pins and it wouldn’t drive two sharp 1/8” pieces of pointed metal into his pectoral muscle. Yeah, he assumed wrong...dude kept a dead flat look on his face, though, I’ll give him credit for that! (And he stepped out of the room as soon as he could, probably saving someone from an accidental hazing charge - you can NOT do that shit nowadays!)
 

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Yeah, fair enough. I kind of forgot (blacked out) those no-money-for-fuel days. And I agree that the pendulum may have swung too far with the sexual assault stuff, but I can’t claim to be smart enough to know where the appropriate middle ground is there. You’re correct, we need to kick those f***ers as far from a uniform as we can, but being over sensitive to the problem can hurt unit cohesion. I honestly don’t know where the middle ground is,
I was watching a charles bronson movie from the 70’s. The one where the new president’s feminist wife was such an a**h***, that they kept trying to blow her up.

I did not remember how violent and abrasive those 70’s feminists were!
Now i remember again

So, i think we already HAVE turned the corner. The antics of the transgender rights idiots are laughable and easily brushed aside today
 
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Yeah, fair enough. I kind of forgot (blacked out) those no-money-for-fuel days. And I agree that the pendulum may have swung too far with the sexual assault stuff, but I can’t claim to be smart enough to know where the appropriate middle ground is there. You’re correct, we need to kick those f***ers as far from a uniform as we can, but being over sensitive to the problem can hurt unit cohesion. I honestly don’t know where the middle ground is, but I hope someone smarter than me figures it out.

Funny that you mention pinning - a guy that works for me just earned his Coxswain pin a few weeks ago, and another Motor Lifeboat Coxswain playfully smacked his pin, assuming it had the “turtles” on the pins and it wouldn’t drive two sharp 1/8” pieces of pointed metal into his pectoral muscle. Yeah, he assumed wrong...dude kept a dead flat look on his face, though, I’ll give him credit for that! (And he stepped out of the room as soon as he could, probably saving someone from an accidental hazing charge - you can NOT do that shit nowadays!)
I don't know that the pendulum can ever swing to far on taking accusations seriously and putting rapists away -- the bigger issue is I think the PC stuff is starting to seep in. For example, making inappropriate jokes that involve race, sexuality, etc, something that used to be used to push the boundaries of friendships, that most people understand, is something that doesn't really seem "appropriate" in the current environment. Again, I'm contrasting two very different units I have been a part of. How things are for an infantry unit downrange could be a lot different, that's not where I am at anymore. I think the culture of "hanging out with a bunch of friends" was valuable for a war-fighting unit, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the military should be more like any other profession in America. Certainly the people who aren't in the military think it should, and to be fair the military has f***ed up hard in the past, largely with how they handled sexual assault and rape.

I'm sure blood pinning still happens. It's not hard to know the line between reasonable blood pinning and blood striping, and something unreasonably likely to cause injury. I've seen both. The idiots who take it too far are taking it waaay too far. It's not like "oh, maybe that could hurt someone," it is the difference between "that looks uncomfortable" and "jesus christ man, relax."
 

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What does that have to do with the price of tea in China
I'll bite.

Many US Army exemptions in the past have been made in order to allow Sikhs to serve.
Observant Sikhs cannot serve if they can't wear the kirpan and, to an extent, the beards and turbans.
Sikhs are badasses on the battlefield. Have been for centuries.
Not waiving these standards precludes otherwise loyal, patriotic, brave Sikhs from serving.
It's in the Army's best interests to have Sikhs in the ranks.

They've been waived for almost a century now. It'll be a problem when Specialist Joe WASP demands to wear a beard and a turban. But he doesn't.
 
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I'll bite.

Many US Army exemptions in the past have been made in order to allow Sikhs to serve.
Observant Sikhs cannot serve if they can't wear the kirpan and, to an extent, the beards and turbans.
Sikhs are badasses on the battlefield. Have been for centuries.
Not waiving these standards precludes otherwise loyal, patriotic, brave Sikhs from serving.
It's in the Army's best interests to have Sikhs in the ranks.

They've been waived for almost a century now. It'll be a problem when Specialist Joe WASP demands to wear a beard and a turban. But he doesn't.
Already been done! A ‘defining feature of masculine men’ — soldier’s Norse pagan faith earns beard waiver

As a Jew I almost feel license to become mildly more observant and grow a beard in the army. I'm losing my hair. I can totally pull off the shaved head and beard look, and if the army gives me the green light, I'm going for it... but I'll wait till its OK for everyone.

Plenty of professional european forces I saw OCONUS had members with awesome beards. We can't have beards, but we can have fat non-PTing turds walking around like its cool.
 

Picton

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Already been done! A ‘defining feature of masculine men’ — soldier’s Norse pagan faith earns beard waiver

As a Jew I almost feel license to become mildly more observant and grow a beard in the army. I'm losing my hair. I can totally pull off the shaved head and beard look, and if the army gives me the green light, I'm going for it... but I'll wait till its OK for everyone.

Plenty of professional european forces I saw OCONUS had members with awesome beards. We can't have beards, but we can have fat non-PTing turds walking around like its cool.
Yeah. It seems a little weird, what the military gets hung up on. Ditto on the Europeans and Asians; I'm all in favor of a sleek, streamlined appearance and I'm not a facial-hair guy myself, but if you can shoot straight and buttstroke your enemy you're fine with me.

What every veteran knows, and all the "Blerrrghhh! It's not UNIFORM!!!" folks fail to realize, is that everything is waiverable and always has been. It hasn't destroyed the force yet, and it's not Obama's fault.
 
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It's not hard to outline well-groomed beard standards the same way you do with hair. Quarter inch at the sideburns to up to 1 inch at the chin faded gradually. Boom. Done. Didn't the navy allow beards until the 80s?
 

Picton

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It's not hard to outline well-groomed beard standards the same way you do with hair. Quarter inch at the sideburns to up to 1 inch at the chin faded gradually. Boom. Done. Didn't the navy allow beards until the 80s?
Yup.

A lot of NATO navies still do.
 
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