Advice on my first 308

[gene]

A $700 gun needs a $1400 scope. An Angel told me this so I know it's true!

And how many people buy a 3000 dollar rifle and mount a 150.00 scope on it?

 

[qmmo]

And how many people buy a 3000 dollar rifle and mount a 150.00 scope on it?

Usually the ones that wind up hating their new rifle for the #1 reason folks don't like their rifles -> they never learned how to shoot. See it all the time...nice enough people with deep pockets and little patience. Most learn. Some don't.

 

[Grendel]

None of the semi auto battle rifles are worth a crap in the accuracy department in their bone stock state. Even when you pour thousands of dollars into them, the only one worth anything is the M1A. And at that point you could have bought two fully glassed precision bolt action rifles with what you will spend to make the M1A a sub-MOA tack driver, something bolt actions achieve rather easily.

I disagree, and I have different experience.

I've shot both a DPMS LR308 and a DSA FAL, both bone stock from the manufacturer 600+ yards with no difficult.

1K yards hasn't been too arduous either.

To the OP: If you'd like to fire any of mine, shoot me a PM. We can go to NF&G, they have a 600yd range we can use.

 

[gene]

I disagree, and I have different experience.

I've shot both a DPMS LR308 and a DSA FAL, both bone stock from the manufacturer 600+ yards with no difficult.

1K yards hasn't been too arduous either.

To the OP: If you'd like to fire any of mine, shoot me a PM. We can go to NF&G, they have a 600yd range we can use.

sub-MOA tack driver

 

[Jose]

And yet my CETME puts quarter sized groups at 100 yrds easily enough make it not much of a challenge.

I'd like to see that. Got pics?

 

[Jose]

I disagree, and I have different experience.

I've shot both a DPMS LR308 and a DSA FAL, both bone stock from the manufacturer 600+ yards with no difficult.

1K yards hasn't been too arduous either.

Well, hell, if you are happy hitting a 6' x 6' plywood board, then yeah. They'll work.

However, when talking precision (6" or less at 600 yards) NOT FROM A BENCH, then I will bet easy money on some bone stock battle rifle not making it.

I wished I lived closer to NH. I'd like to make some easy money.

PS, there is a reason virtually every serious long range competitor in the country uses a bolt action rifle.

 

[PaulD]

Thanks.
Then I guess I'm going for the Bolt actions.

Off to the range. Be back on in 2 hours.
testing out my brother's piston upper

Which piston upper did he get?

Also, I realize it's not on your current list but you're welcome to try my M1A. Just send me a PM.

 

[PaulD]

I disagree, and I have different experience.

I've shot both a DPMS LR308 and a DSA FAL, both bone stock from the manufacturer 600+ yards with no difficult.

1K yards hasn't been too arduous either.

To the OP: If you'd like to fire any of mine, shoot me a PM. We can go to NF&G, they have a 600yd range we can use.

The FNAR is also supposed to be very accurate.

 

[Jose]

The FNAR is also supposed to be very accurate.

It's just a Winchester SX3 painted black with a pistol grip and big magazine. Marketing hype 100%.

 

[Andy in NH]

Savages are great bang for the buck, but I wouldn't get a scout for a rifle that you want to go out to 500 yds.

It might not be the best choice for that distance, but it has potential.

I've hit a full size pepper popper (4 out of 5 times) at 400 yards from a supported prone position with my Savage Scout and a 2.5x EER scope.

The rifle came from the factory with a three-round .285" proof target.

With a different optic and/or more practice, I believe it (we) could be a minute-of-man (or better) 500 yard gun.

With this rifle, hits at 500 were easy. For me, hitting consistently started to get problematic at 800 yards.

.

 

[strangenh]

It might not be the best choice for that distance, but it has potential.

I totally believe a lot of Savage rifles can do that off the shelf. I just don't think I'd want to do over 300 yards with an EER scope. Nor would I recommend a scout positioned scope for a first long-range rifle. (Secretly, I frickin' love EER/IER scopes..., oops did I just say that in public... )

 

[FalArAk]

And yet my CETME puts quarter sized groups at 100 yrds easily enough make it not much of a challenge.

I got $20 that says you can't.

 

[Jose]

I got $20 that says you can't.

I got $200 on the table against it making 1 MOA at 600.

 

[Andy in NH]

I totally believe a lot of Savage rifles can do that off the shelf. I just don't think I'd want to do over 300 yards with an EER scope. Nor would I recommend a scout positioned scope for a first long-range rifle.

I've got no argument with your opinion.

However, it is comforting to know what the shooter-rifle-ammo combo is capable of.




.

 

[FalArAk]

I got $200 on the table against it making 1 MOA at 600.

A group is only one shot,correct ?

 

[strangenh]

A group is only one shot,correct ?

Well, heck, in that case, you should SEE the groups I can do with a Marlin 60.

 

[Mike S]

I'm shopping a .308 right now as well, I've heard nothing but good about this one.

 

[Underwhere]

Ok, so if I'm looking for distance the scout is out.

So back to bolt action only, bull barrel, and a retarded expensive scope.

Savage 10 FC
Remington 700
Tikka something

 

[Underwhere]

Savage Product Codes

Thanks needed that.

Which piston upper did he get?

Also, I realize it's not on your current list but you're welcome to try my M1A. Just send me a PM.

He got the LWRC upper.

Stupid guy he installed a spring backwards in his lower receiver and was getting light strikes...realized it and had to go back to the range to confirm it was all better

 

[Hanwei]

specifically, an LWRC M6A2 upper, 14.7" barrel w/permanently attached A2 Flash Hider

And yes, I installed the hammer spring backwards... so it was causing light primer strikes. I got all butthurt that my ridiculously expensive upper/rifle wasn't performing well. But alas... all is good in the hood

I'll be posting pictures of the rifle in the gallery soon.

 

[Underwhere]

So where would someone go locally to shoulder some of these for fitment?
Who's got a good selection?

 

[Kalahari]

LEO Supply in Waltham had the Savage and Remington, last I was in there a few weeks ago. The owner a big fan of the Savage, IIRC, and is extremely friendly. Prices are probably average.

 

[Grendel]

Well, hell, if you are happy hitting a 6' x 6' plywood board, then yeah. They'll work.

However, when talking precision (6" or less at 600 yards) NOT FROM A BENCH, then I will bet easy money on some bone stock battle rifle not making it.

I wished I lived closer to NH. I'd like to make some easy money.

PS, there is a reason virtually every serious long range competitor in the country uses a bolt action rifle.

6" group, prone, no problem.

But now you're adding to your original statement:

None of the semi auto battle rifles are worth a crap in the accuracy department in their bone stock state. Even when you pour thousands of dollars into them, the only one worth anything is the M1A. And at that point you could have bought two fully glassed precision bolt action rifles with what you will spend to make the M1A a sub-MOA tack driver, something bolt actions achieve rather easily.

You said I could pour thousands into one of the rifles I mentioned, bought two fully glassed rifles for the money I would have into one of the two rifles I have doing what you specified.


A decent FAL is 1700. No modification (read additional cost) beyond scope install.

DPMS LR.308 is 1350. No modification (read additional cost) beyond scope install.

Bolt action variants are 500-1300 as discussed here, plus glass?

I concur there are reasons that long range shooters prefer bolt action, but I am not quite certain that accuracy eliminates a gas driven system from their consideration.
So, come up with some facts, cite some documentation to support your claim.


Here's some of mine, as a well known fact: The US Military changed their sniper platform from a bolt action to a semi auto based commercially available rifle platform. They're taking long range shots, where life is on the line if they're not accurate.


Heh, how do you think you would make money from my disagreement with your statements?

 

[gerrycaruso]

I have a match M1A and it's fun to shoot because the recoil is light but it's not as accurate as my son's heavy barrel Remington bolt rifle. Do you want to shoot alot with less recoil or do you want to shoot alittle with the greatest accuracy. Your welcome to shoot my M1A at Harvard. If that's what you really want, look for a used one.

 

[FalArAk]

Here's some of mine, as a well known fact: The US Military changed their sniper platform from a bolt action to a semi auto based commercially available rifle platform. They're taking long range shots, where life is on the line if they're not accurate.

When you say the US military went to semi auto systems,what branches changed and what rifles did they get rid of and replace with ? I'm sure they changed not because of accuracy,but for volumetric firepower.

But,the military never changes something because it's better,they change things because it's cheaper.

 

[Jose]

calsdad, the Army selected a Knight's Armament AR-type rifle and yes, they are very accurate. They are very accurate for the ver reason that makes .223 ARs the exception to the rule of semi auto rifle lack of accuracy: The barrel is free floated and there is no mechanical attachment between the bolt and barrel except at the receiver extension. Their barrel harmonics are almost exactly like that of a bolt action rifle.

All other semi auto rifles have pistons, cylinders, op-rods, etc, hanging off their barrels which makes accurizing them a nightmare.

A 1000 dollar tactical bolt action from a well respected maker (FN, Savage, Remington) is ready to shoot sub-moa right out of the box with ammo it likes. The only semi that can compete with that are .308 ARs and I doubt you can find one for $1000.

You need to spend double that amount to get any other semi auto to shoot that well. And a fair bit of luck.

Also, Greg is right about the volume of fire thing. Although a bolt action with a large capacity magazine can easily keep up with a semi when precision is required. And it is precision rifles we are talking about, right?

 

[PaulD]

specifically, an LWRC M6A2 upper, 14.7" barrel w/permanently attached A2 Flash Hider

And yes, I installed the hammer spring backwards... so it was causing light primer strikes. I got all butthurt that my ridiculously expensive upper/rifle wasn't performing well. But alas... all is good in the hood

I'll be posting pictures of the rifle in the gallery soon.

Very nice! I want one of those.

 

[usmcs/s]

i love my m40a3

 

[Grendel]

calsdad, the Army selected a Knight's Armament AR-type rifle and yes, they are very accurate. They are very accurate for the ver reason that makes .223 ARs the exception to the rule of semi auto rifle lack of accuracy: The barrel is free floated and there is no mechanical attachment between the bolt and barrel except at the receiver extension. Their barrel harmonics are almost exactly like that of a bolt action rifle.

All other semi auto rifles have pistons, cylinders, op-rods, etc, hanging off their barrels which makes accurizing them a nightmare.

A 1000 dollar tactical bolt action from a well respected maker (FN, Savage, Remington) is ready to shoot sub-moa right out of the box with ammo it likes. The only semi that can compete with that are .308 ARs and I doubt you can find one for $1000.

You need to spend double that amount to get any other semi auto to shoot that well. And a fair bit of luck.

Also, Greg is right about the volume of fire thing. Although a bolt action with a large capacity magazine can easily keep up with a semi when precision is required. And it is precision rifles we are talking about, right?

But now your story is changing from what it was...

As stated you said two bolt rifles, with glass for one semi auto. LR308 from DPMS has an MSRP of 1350.00, one of the rifles mentioned in your post that is accurate as all batshit, out of the box. A friend of mine can shoot the side of a playing card at 600 yards, with his, right out of the box.

I'd call that a precision rifle, as you did above. I disagree though, in that my FAL can do the same thing.

 

[Jose]

A friend of mine can shoot the side of a playing card at 600 yards, with his, right out of the box.

I'd call that a precision rifle, as you did above. I disagree though, in that my FAL can do the same thing.

You know, I am not going to argue this.

I have been a highpower rifle competitor for ten years. That's ten solid years of 600 yard shooting, and even a few times out to 1000 yards.

In all that time I have never, ever, seen anyone be effective at those distances with anything except bolt guns or ARs.

I have never seen or heard of any tactical long range rifle competition where anything but a bolt gun or the odd .308 AR was used to win, place, or show.

I stand on my experience.