accidental shooting death at Mansfield Fish and Game

Len, was it you that was telling us about how police departments were, at least at one time, predisposed to call suicides accidents whenever possible? For the family (both financially/insurance-wise and peace of mind wise)?

I have no insight into this situation in Mansfield, but the official story on these isn't always the truth.
I've heard of situations like that happening in the "old days", but in the dozens of suicides I've covered we always call them as we see them. In fact, in one of them, the officer was dispatched to a scene where the deceased by suicide turned out to be his best friend. Despite all the motive in the world to sugar-coat that, we deemed it what it appeared to be--a suicide.

Moreover, while it may serve no purpose (besides doing violence to truth) to deem a death a suicide in regards to the family, situations such as this where there could be premesis liability, the distinction is quite relevant.
 
In Europe they jump in front of trains...

That's done in the USA too, probably daily, and in such cases the person committing the suicide is no longer "solo": he enlists the assistance of others.....involuntarily for the "others" I might add......in his "emergency exit" from this life: the train engineer + conductor.
 
Clean-up is not required to be performed by a biohazard service. The property owner can do it if they are up to it or can hire it out to biohazard guys ($$$).

Not so sure about this. Just had an 'unaccompanied death' at my site two weeks ago. I found the resident and called 911 and dealt with local and state police and first contact with family. It sucks to think someone is that down to do something, but it is not my place to judge.

We called a biohazard service. The guys were great, and definitely understand the things they have to deal with. Multiple layers of paperwork with regards to disposal of any items affected by biohazard. I COULD have done the cleanup, but the disposal still has to be documented.
 
Not so sure about this. Just had an 'unaccompanied death' at my site two weeks ago. I found the resident and called 911 and dealt with local and state police and first contact with family. It sucks to think someone is that down to do something, but it is not my place to judge.

We called a biohazard service. The guys were great, and definitely understand the things they have to deal with. Multiple layers of paperwork with regards to disposal of any items affected by biohazard. I COULD have done the cleanup, but the disposal still has to be documented.


My knowledge is not second hand.
A biocleanup service was called but was not a legal necessity. I do understand not getting invovled with cleanup if it is a third party leasing or renting your property when insurance will cover most of the cleanup costs.
 
I've heard of situations like that happening in the "old days", but in the dozens of suicides I've covered we always call them as we see them. In fact, in one of them, the officer was dispatched to a scene where the deceased by suicide turned out to be his best friend. Despite all the motive in the world to sugar-coat that, we deemed it what it appeared to be--a suicide.

Moreover, while it may serve no purpose (besides doing violence to truth) to deem a death a suicide in regards to the family, situations such as this where there could be premesis liability, the distinction is quite relevant.

The bolded term sent me to Black's Law Dictionary . . . nothing. Did you mean "premises"? or is this a term I'm totally unfamiliar with?

If this one is declared "accidental" while trying to put the "safety" on a lever-action Marlin 30-30, it's a cover-up (for whatever reason)! No lever actions I've ever seen have a safety on them and leaning over such a gun to try to find a safety, you couldn't see it is it was there . . . I can't buy that story (latest report in media attributed to MPD).

Not so sure about this. Just had an 'unaccompanied death' at my site two weeks ago. I found the resident and called 911 and dealt with local and state police and first contact with family. It sucks to think someone is that down to do something, but it is not my place to judge.

We called a biohazard service. The guys were great, and definitely understand the things they have to deal with. Multiple layers of paperwork with regards to disposal of any items affected by biohazard. I COULD have done the cleanup, but the disposal still has to be documented.

MA over-regulates everything, I can't imagine that they would allow just anyone to clean up such a scene . . . and especially when it comes to disposal of body parts/brain matter! Some 30 years ago I was making a pitch to my late police chief that the gun/ammo we carried on the job wasn't really adequate for police work. He pulled out some 8x10 glossies (thankfully black & white) of a suicide where the guy shot himself in the head while seated at the kitchen table. Brain matter was splattered everywhere, on the wall, etc. and this was with a S&W .38Spl firearm. I'm not a hunter and have never fired a 30-30 but I can't imagine the amount of devastation that would occur doing the same in an "open air" (range) situation with that high-powered round out of a rifle!! The clean-up has to cover a massive area and any biological "waste" not cleaned up breeds germs/bacteria that could make anyone that would come into contact with it while shooting, picking up brass, etc. very ill. Best left to professionals!!! I have no idea if club insurance covers clean-up like this, but regardless this isn't a job for amateurs!
 
If this one is declared "accidental" while trying to put the "safety" on a lever-action Marlin 30-30, it's a cover-up (for whatever reason)! No lever actions I've ever seen have a safety on them and leaning over such a gun to try to find a safety, you couldn't see it is it was there . . . I can't buy that story (latest report in media attributed to MPD).
Earlier Models...no, but most newer models do have a cross bolt safety.
I'm not buying that explanation either.
marlin_model_336BL_2.jpg
 
Not so sure about this. Just had an 'unaccompanied death' at my site two weeks ago. I found the resident and called 911 and dealt with local and state police and first contact with family. It sucks to think someone is that down to do something, but it is not my place to judge.

We called a biohazard service. The guys were great, and definitely understand the things they have to deal with. Multiple layers of paperwork with regards to disposal of any items affected by biohazard. I COULD have done the cleanup, but the disposal still has to be documented.
It depends on what you are disposing. The corpus delecti will be taken by the medical examiner.

Some types of household medical waste can be discarded in the trash (for example, blood lines and used dialysis filters), but become "hazardous waste" subject to regulations if generated in a medical facility. I am not certain that the rags used to clean up blood from a ballistically induced aperture would necessarily require "documented disposal". Also, the rules may indeed be different for a professional cleanup and self-help.

BUT.... the big issue is bio contaminants, both for those doing the cleanup and those using the facility after the cleanup. I won't be volunteering for a cleanup work party if something like that happens at my club.
 
My knowledge is not second hand.
A biocleanup service was called but was not a legal necessity. I do understand not getting invovled with cleanup if it is a third party leasing or renting your property when insurance will cover most of the cleanup costs.

With a $20k deductible on a commercial property, we were stuck with the full cost of cleanup.
 
It depends on what you are disposing. The corpus delecti will be taken by the medical examiner.

Some types of household medical waste can be discarded in the trash (for example, blood lines and used dialysis filters), but become "hazardous waste" subject to regulations if generated in a medical facility. I am not certain that the rags used to clean up blood from a ballistically induced aperture would necessarily require "documented disposal". Also, the rules may indeed be different for a professional cleanup and self-help.

BUT.... the big issue is bio contaminants, both for those doing the cleanup and those using the facility after the cleanup. I won't be volunteering for a cleanup work party if something like that happens at my club.

This was in an apartment on carpeted floors. Any soft materials with bodily waste got disposed of and documented, two boxes 30x18x24. We could have had a cleaning company come in to sterilize everything else. We chose to replace carpet and pad instead of cleaning.
 
It is a real shame that this happened at the range. My thoughts and condolences go out to the family. However not to be morbid I know a girl that works for a clean up company she was one of the ones to go to the range and do the clean up. She said that it was at the 50 yd range and that everything has been fully decontaminated. However the entire issue is really depressing I wonder what changes will come to the range come the next members meeting.
 
Earlier Models...no, but most newer models do have a cross bolt safety.
I'm not buying that explanation either.
View attachment 113922

The Mossbergs lever actions have them too. I took the hunter safety class in NH and they had Mossberg guns to demonstrate the different actions and when we got to the lever action I was thoroughly confused! Mossberg says to engage the thumb safety (sort of like what's on a o/u shotty) and then lower the hammer. I still don't understand why one would lower the hammer if there's a thumb safety but their manual states to do both.

I think they still make the Winchesters without them though.

As for what's required for sanitizing a place, if it's a place of employment then I suspect OSHA requirements would kick-in. If it's a private residence then I don't think there are legal requirements but your city/town trash service might restrict what they will take.
 
Not so sure about this. Just had an 'unaccompanied death' at my site two weeks ago. I found the resident and called 911 and dealt with local and state police and first contact with family. It sucks to think someone is that down to do something, but it is not my place to judge.

We called a biohazard service. The guys were great, and definitely understand the things they have to deal with. Multiple layers of paperwork with regards to disposal of any items affected by biohazard. I COULD have done the cleanup, but the disposal still has to be documented.

Those guys come into the PD all the time and drop off swag--pens, refrigerator magnets, keychains, etc--despite the fact we almost are never responsible for the clean-up and won't recommend private businesses to people.

Occasionally, a guy I work with will be using one of the pens at a call: "The "Aftermath Way" . . . . The beginning of the recovery, not the end of a tragedy."

- - - Updated - - -

The bolded term sent me to Black's Law Dictionary . . . nothing. Did you mean "premises"? or is this a term I'm totally unfamiliar with?
Yeah, the one that means "place".
 
The thumb safety probably just blocks the trigger, but doesn't block the hammer or firing pin.

the manual safety blocks the hammer from going past half cock. The user is instructed to engage the safety and then drop the hammer to half cock, riding the hammer down (and NH hunter safety instructor also recommends putting your other hand between the hammer and the firing pin in case you drop the hammer by accident. Many (most?) rifles have a floating, unlocked, firing pin so I don't see that as an issue. It just seems stupid to me to redesign the mechanism and then still keep the old procedure of dropping the hammer, which is a risky procedure when done incorrectly.
 
tang safeties on Winchester lever guns...

MVC-004F.jpg
 
At one time suicides by firearms were explained by " He was cleaning his gun and it went off". Which anyone who knows anything about firearms knows that is an impossibility.
 
That is a Winchester 1873. A 1897 is a shotgun.

And irrelevant to the conversation.

From the police/media reports the gun used was a Marlin 30-30 lever action. The owner is an older guy and probably owned the gun for 30+ years, likely long before anyone thought an external safety on a lever action was a good idea.
 
Sounds like the Mansfield PD are doing a favor and listing it as an accident. I just looked at my Marlin 35 lever action . I cannot see how you shoot yourself in the head with it unless your trying to do it. Its just too awkward a position hold the gun and put the safety on . literally he would have to be looking down the barrel to shoot himself . If it was an older model with the half cock hammer safety its still an awkward position.
 
And people have done dumberber things.

Let's say it's resting against a table, upright. He reaches down OVER THE BARREL OF THE GUN (because he don't know the 3 rules) to set the safety because he forgot to. Possibly the member is down range and he doesn't want to pick up the gun while anyone is downrange, which is a range rule.

He fumbles it (no rack in Mansfield, IIRC) and while grappling with it, hits the trigger. BOOM!

I've watched enough AFV, Ridiculousness and World's Dumbest/Craziest/Strangest Criminals/College Students/Stupids to know that sometimes people think they can get away with something right before physics takes over and says, "Oh no you ain't!"
 
I witnessed a "senior" club member blow down the barrel of his bolt action from the muzzle end just recently while the range was hot. I guess he had the bolt open but all I could think of is this thread when he stuck the barrel in his mouth. It's so hard to talk to these "I know what I'm doing" types and this one is half deaf so that makes it that much harder.

I guess I could have asked, "for the record, if the gun discharged while you were doing that would you like it recorded as a malfunction, negligent discharge, or suicide?"
 
And irrelevant to the conversation.

From the police/media reports the gun used was a Marlin 30-30 lever action. The owner is an older guy and probably owned the gun for 30+ years, likely long before anyone thought an external safety on a lever action was a good idea.
Excuse me Len for correcting something that was in error. I'll leave it up to you from now on to decide what is relevant.
 
Excuse me Len for correcting something that was in error. I'll leave it up to you from now on to decide what is relevant.

No need to get upset. Most never read most of a thread before responding and we're going down numerous rat-holes that are totally irrelevant to the situation. Thus my comment as a nice way to say "enough about safeties". I did appreciate whoever was first in pointing out that safeties do indeed exist on some newer lever action guns however.

Although the police haven't released a final report, all indications seem to point to a deliberate act with intended results. Police often declare suicides as "accidental" to try to mitigate the hurt and doubt for the family left behind as well as try not to prevent any insurance pay-out if that were to be an issue for the next of kin.


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To others, yes people do all sort of stupid things and some survive unscathed, while others aren't so lucky.

And yes there are racks at MF&G for rifles. They are almost never used unless it was at a NES shoot. Most people put their guns on the bench at this club.
 
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