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about to move home with my collection...

edmorseiii

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So I have a small collection of firearms I have purchased in California while on active duty, and I am moving home to MA. I already have my LTC-A, and am a bit unsure how to get them there as I am flying home, and shipping the rest of my belongings. I have 4 handguns that are not on the MA approved roster, an AR and a shotgun. My question is what do you suggest I do for transportation? I have a small airline approved case that I can fit my hand guns in, but my long guns are still an issue. I could buy a larger one to check in at the airport and just put them all in one, but that is a bit much I think. How could I go about shipping them? Do they have to go to a FFL, or just someone with a LTC-A, which shipping company?

Also, what kind of paper work am I going to have to do when I get them and myself back home? As I said the hand guns are not MA compliant.

Thanks for your help,
Ed
 
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doesnt matter if the handguns are not MA complaint, that only affects FFLs selling firearms.

Ship them to yourself. Take them to UPS, with them packed up and ship them to yourself. That would be the best way IMHO.
 

edmorseiii

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there isnt any registration forms to fill out or anything? i just assumed there would be.
 

edmorseiii

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cool, thanks for the answers, as for my AR it is Cal compliant, 10 round mags and a bullet button, for now, and all post ban. i actually like the muzzle brake i have.
 

edmorseiii

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In case anyone is interested, I haven’t shown them off yet. The sight on the Mossberg is crap, it was just on it for fun.

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From 18 USC 921 United States Code:

"The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means - (A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as - (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12; (vii) Steyr AUG; (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; (B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) a grenade launcher; (C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - (i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned; (iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and (v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and (D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of - (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine."

As far as the semi rifle goes, if it has a "folding or telescoping stock" you're screwed. Same for the semi shotgun. If the stock is fixed - good to go. The number of evil features required to be in violation is actually 2, not three as previously posted.
 
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kevin9

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Wrong.

It appears that the OP is already an MA resident and has a resident LTC. Thus, he must file an FA-10 for each firearm, checked off as "registration".

From the OP:
So I have a small collection of firearms I have purchased in California while on active duty, and I am moving home to MA
Re-reading the applicable M.G.L:
(j) Any new resident moving into the commonwealth, any resident of the commonwealth returning after having been absent from the commonwealth for not less than 180 consecutive days or any resident of the commonwealth upon being released from active service with any of the armed services of the United States with respect to any firearm, rifle or shotgun and any ammunition therefor then in his possession, for 60 days after such release, return or entry into the commonwealth;
It appears to me that the OP is a resident of MA on active duty elsewhere (CA). As I read the laws (and IANAL) it appears that he is eligible for a resident LTC as legal resident. Even if not he could have a non-resident LTC. Either way, taking the OP's words at face value C140 129c(j) applies.
 
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It appears to me that the OP is a resident of MA on active duty elsewhere (CA). As I read the laws (and IANAL) it appears that he is eligible for a resident LTC as legal resident. Even if not he could have a non-resident LTC. Either way, taking the OP's words at face value C140 129c(j) applies.

The applicable statute is not 129C (possession of firearms), it is 128B (purchases made outside Commonwealth). If he maintained his resident status while on active duty, he will have to file the FA-10 forms. I would go by the status of his LTC. If his LTC is a resident LTC, file the FA-10's. If his LTC is a non-resident LTC, don't file the FA-10's, but apply for a new resident LTC.
 

kevin9

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I just love the clarity and consistency of MA laws [rolleyes]

So, as I read it C140 S129c(j) is pretty clear that a resident leaving active service and moving back in state is exempt from the FA-10 (and licensing) requirements of S129c for 60 days.

On the other hand C140 S128B seems to be pretty clear that FA-10s should be filed by residents who purchase our of state within 7 days of purchase with none of the exemptions of S129C. This law appears a bit difficult to comply with give that such out-of-state state residents can't go down to the local PD and pick up the requisite forms. Yes, they can be ordered direct from the CHSB but still, not a good law.

Seems to me to be a bit of a conflict here between one law that says certain people are exempt and another that says they are not (sur-prise, sur-prise, sur-prise).

I see 2 choices for the OP; consulting a real lawyer, or, just submit FA-10s. The first has the potential to get the "right answer", depending upon how important that is to one. The second is extra paperwork, possibly telling the state more than they need to know (depending upon the answer to option 1), but is not going to hurt anything legally speaking.

Good luck.
 
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So, as I read it C140 S129c(j) is pretty clear that a resident leaving active service and moving back in state is exempt from the FA-10 (and licensing) requirements of S129c for 60 days.

S129C(j) says nothing at all about the requirement to file an FA-10. It's purpose is only to exempt new residents and residents moving back into the state from immediately needing a license to possess firearms. There is no conflict with S128B.

kevin9 said:
On the other hand C140 S128B seems to be pretty clear that FA-10s should be filed by residents who purchase our of state within 7 days of purchase with none of the exemptions of S129C. This law appears a bit difficult to comply with give that such out-of-state state residents can't go down to the local PD and pick up the requisite forms. Yes, they can be ordered direct from the CHSB but still, not a good law.

MA laws have no effect on people outside the state. S128B won't apply to them until they enter the state. So you have seven days from when the gun comes back into the state to file the FA-10.

kevin9 said:
Seems to me to be a bit of a conflict here between one law that says certain people are exempt and another that says they are not (sur-prise, sur-prise, sur-prise).

Again, there's no conflict because one law is talking about licensing and the other law is talking about registering a transfer. Two completely different topics.
 

kevin9

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S129C(j) says nothing at all about the requirement to file an FA-10. It's purpose is only to exempt new residents and residents moving back into the state from immediately needing a license to possess firearms. There is no conflict with S128B.
Paragraph 3 does contain a reporting requirement (eg. FA-10), but it puts the onus on the seller. Paragraph j. exempts from all the provisions of S129C. I can now see how that could mean that 128B does not apply. However,
MA laws have no effect on people outside the state. S128B won't apply to them until they enter the state. So you have seven days from when the gun comes back into the state to file the FA-10.
Not true. A straight reading of 128B says to me that it applies to residents who purchase out of state regardless of where they reside at the time of purchase. The 7 day reporting requirement counts from the date of purchase, not when they or the gun enter the state.
Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the executive director of the criminal history systems board the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number.
If this requirement did not apply until residents actually brought the gun into the state then I know there would be law-abiding MA residents purchasing long guns out of state, including certain "evil ones", and keeping them out of state so as not to run afoul of the stupid MA laws.

I now see the bottom line as either the OP is a MA resident with a resident LTC who has been stationed out of state, in which case 128B applies as written; or, they are a non-resident with a non-resident LTC, in which case 128B does not apply and 129C(j) does.

Regardless I still suggest the OP talk to a real lawyer; there are several here that I'm sure can answer more definitively than us "amateurs" [smile].
 
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Paragraph j. exempts from all the provisions of S129C. I can now see how that could mean that 128B does not apply.

You can? I can't. How does an exemption from 129C exempt someone from 128B?

kevin9 said:
The 7 day reporting requirement counts from the date of purchase, not when they or the gun enter the state.

Read the law one more time. Look at what you underlined. It contains the word 'receive' not the word 'obtain' or 'purchase'. Now look at the part just before what you underlined, "receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth". It applies from when the gun enters the commonwealth.
 

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A straight reading of 128B says to me that it applies to residents who purchase out of state regardless of where they reside at the time of purchase. The 7 day reporting requirement counts from the date of purchase, not when they or the gun enter the state.
If this requirement did not apply until residents actually brought the gun into the state then I know there would be law-abiding MA residents purchasing long guns out of state, including certain "evil ones", and keeping them out of state so as not to run afoul of the stupid MA laws.

Regardless I still suggest the OP talk to a real lawyer; there are several here that I'm sure can answer more definitively than us "amateurs" [smile].

According to both Ron Glidden and at least one firearms attorney (who is a member here, but rarely appears), your interpretation is incorrect.

MA has NO authority on a snowbird who is lucky enough to buy a pistol in FL while living their for 4 months and LEAVES it there when they return to MA for the warmer months.

According to Ron and the attorney, there is NO legal requirement to file FA-10s UNTIL the gun is brought into MA! IANAL but I'll take their word for it.
 
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If this requirement did not apply until residents actually brought the gun into the state then I know there would be law-abiding MA residents purchasing long guns out of state, including certain "evil ones", and keeping them out of state so as not to run afoul of the stupid MA laws.

People do, in fact, do this. It's not completely straight forward, because an FFL is not allowed to sell you a rifle you cannot possess in your home state (per federal law). But you can buy a non-ban compliant upper in a free state and mate it to a lower yourself. That's perfectly legal as long as you don't bring it back into the state. And you certainly don't need to fill out any MA paperwork on it.
 

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You can? I can't. How does an exemption from 129C exempt someone from 128B?
Typo on my part. Meant to say 129B, as in the reporting requirement therein.
Read the law one more time. Look at what you underlined. It contains the word 'receive' not the word 'obtain' or 'purchase'. Now look at the part just before what you underlined, "receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth". It applies from when the gun enters the commonwealth.
I was reading all of 128B. The first sentence says who the law applies to "Any resident of the commonwealth", when "who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun" and where "from any source within or without the commonwealth". The phrase I previously underlined indicates when the reporting window kicks in "within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun". It seems clear to me that "receiving" is taking possession at time of purchase. The laws say nothing about "receiving" have to be, or meaning, " is in the state of MA".

However,
According to both Ron Glidden and at least one firearms attorney (who is a member here, but rarely appears), your interpretation is incorrect.

MA has NO authority on a snowbird who is lucky enough to buy a pistol in FL while living their for 4 months and LEAVES it there when they return to MA for the warmer months.

According to Ron and the attorney, there is NO legal requirement to file FA-10s UNTIL the gun is brought into MA! IANAL but I'll take their word for it.
Damn I'm confused. 128B seems pretty clear to me; yet, if I read this right I can go to NH, purchase a rifle or shotgun (maybe an evil one????) there and as long as I do not bring it back into MA I don't have to file an FA-10. Is this right? What am I missing (or not)?

UPDATE: Sorry judubois, was posting this as you posted your immediately prior response.
 
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It seems clear to me that "receiving" is taking possession at time of purchase. The laws say nothing about "receiving" have to be, or meaning, " is in the state of MA".

I just quoted it for you. The law says "and receives such [...] within the commonwealth". I'm confused as to how you can misinterpret this.
 

edmorseiii

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wow, ok for a little clearity on my part, i am a MA resident and always have been. i am currently stationed in CA where i have purchased all of my fire arms. i have a valid resident LTC-A from my home town of attleboro. for what it's worth i will just fill out the paper work.

thanks for all the answers and interpritations, i am going to beat my head off the desk now.
 
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wow, ok for a little clearity on my part, i am a MA resident and always have been. i am currently stationed in CA where i have purchased all of my fire arms. i have a valid resident LTC-A from my home town of attleboro. for what it's worth i will just fill out the paper work.

Sorry for getting off track a bit, Ed! Yes, fill out the FA-10 forms as 'registrations' when you get back into state with the guns and you're all set.
 

edmorseiii

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no, i am glad you guys went back and forth a few times, it helps me understand the laws a little better. i usually read every thread that goes down this route just for that.

thanks again
 

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I just quoted it for you. The law says "and receives such [...] within the commonwealth". I'm confused as to how you can misinterpret this.
I read that phrase to go with someone who is a non-resident who purchases and receives a firearm within the state. Here's the verbiage as I have parsed it to date:
  • Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun
    • from any source within or without the commonwealth,
    • other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A,
  • and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun
    • from any source within or without the commonwealth,
    • other than such a licensee or person,
    • and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth
  • shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the executive director of the criminal history systems board the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number.
Reading this law for the up-teenth time I can see how the punctuation can be interpreted either way now. The comma after "other than such a licensee or person" can be interpreted to be closing just that phrase (my reading to date) or to be closing the sentence part all the way back to "and any non-resident.." (apparently the "proper" interpretation). Both readings appear to me to be syntactically correct.
Sorry for getting off track a bit, Ed! Yes, fill out the FA-10 forms as 'registrations' when you get back into state with the guns and you're all set.
+1. That is the safest thing to do.
 
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Ok, Kevin, I see how you were reading it now. However, your interpretation would require MA law to apply to events taking place outside of MA. That would be entirely unenforceable and vacuous. So I don't think that is what they intended, nor is it how I have ever seen it interpreted before.
 

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Ok, Kevin, I see how you were reading it now.
Thank you. My problem is that with a computer science background I tend to try to parse text precisely. Ambiguous scope delimitation (e.g. punctuation) is problematic in that respect.[wink]
However, your interpretation would require MA law to apply to events taking place outside of MA.
Like dealer licensing laws being (mis-)applied to mail order ammo sales?[smile]
That would be entirely unenforceable and vacuous.
Unenforceable and vacuous MA laws, I would never of have though of such a thing[smile]
So I don't think that is what they intended, nor is it how I have ever seen it interpreted before.
The English can be parsed either way, and when it comes to "intention" I have little faith in logic with regards to gun control laws.

Good discussion! And good to learn that the prevalent interpretation appears to be less restrictive than I had understood it to be.
 
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We're all stupid! (j/k)

Yes, I agree with jdubois's interpretation.

Sorry for getting off track a bit, Ed! Yes, fill out the FA-10 forms as 'registrations' when you get back into state with the guns and you're all set.

Because the OP never stopped being an MA resident and has maintained a resident LTC throughout his time on active duty, he is bound by the section requiring residents to report new acquisitions within 7 days of bringing them into the state. As noted by jdubois, the law only applies to when you bring them across the line, not depending on the actual date of purchase.
 
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