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A2 buffer tube depth measurement
- Thread starter Patriot
- Start date
Is this still that '09 NES AR giving you problems? What is the issue with it?
Patriot
NES Member
Cycling, or lack thereof.
Yes. See above.
I cleaned the living crap out of it and lubed it within an inch of it's life. For one magazine at the range the other day it worked
smooth as silk. The POS is the most accurate rifle I've ever shot but that's the rub. From that magazine on, it descends on down
to eventually, a single-shot AR due to it mostly ejecting the spent round but rarely chambering another round. It never, ever,
leaves the bolt open on an empty magazine. I sometimes have some feeding issues with it when it actually tries to chamber a round
but that's not the major malfunction. I've bought some factory stuff and am going to give that a try but I think the results will
be the same. In the meantime I'm looking at the buffer spring/tube since that is a pretty strong impediment to cycling the bolt and
thought I would take it apart and check out the individual components. My buffer tube has got a small extension on the end of it
and the spring length is close to 13 inches. I'm wondering if the buffer tube I have is not a standard one and this one is intended
to increase spring pressure. That's as far as I've ventured.
Refresh my memory... that AR has a White Oak Armament barrel, correct? What manufacturer for the upper, bolt and bolt carrier? It's been, like, 2 years since I chatted with you about it.
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That extension piece is normal. It fills the length difference between the original A1 stock and the slightly longer A2 stock. (Both use the same receiver extension.)
Your action spring is well within spec (11 3/4" min to 13 1/2" max according to the TM)
Short-stroking is usually gas-system related.....
Patriot
NES Member
With the exception of the stripped upper (Anvil Arms) all other parts are WOA purchased.
I don't know who makes the bolt, but it is matched by WOA to the barrel.
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Thanks for the info.
ToddDubya
NES Member
Do you have different buffers to try? I assume you're using a rifle buffer.
Or better yet, can you put a different upper on there and try that? That would let you rule out the lower. You could also swap your upper onto another lower and see how that works.
I apologize if these are things you thought of right away. I don't know the history here or your troubleshooting skills.
ETA: I had the wrong screw (too long) on my stock and it prevented the buffer from fully cycling. It wouldn't lock back on the last round. If you're seeing that, it might be something else to check.
Or better yet, can you put a different upper on there and try that? That would let you rule out the lower. You could also swap your upper onto another lower and see how that works.
I apologize if these are things you thought of right away. I don't know the history here or your troubleshooting skills.
ETA: I had the wrong screw (too long) on my stock and it prevented the buffer from fully cycling. It wouldn't lock back on the last round. If you're seeing that, it might be something else to check.
Patriot
NES Member
I have a carbine buffer and spring. I might try the spring with the rifle buffer.
Yeah, if I had another rifle I would do the swap routine to figure out where the problem is.
All suggestions welcomed!
icyclefar
NES Member
dcmdon
NES Member
Patriot,
I had an overlength spring provided to me by Magpul with one of their stocks. The gun would sometimes, but would never lock back. It was also difficult to lock the bolt back manually.
To troubleshoot, I turned the buffer tube one full turn out of the receiver. (be careful the buffer retainer plunger will be released when you do this). I then tested it and it worked like a charm. So I left it that way. Its easy to use an ar without a buffer retainer. Just hold the buffer back and close the upper onto it.
However you do it, please turn the buffer tube one turn out from the receiver and test.
What kind of stock do you have on it?
Can you provide photos of the gun with the stock removed so we can see the tube and also a photo of the buffer and spring against a tape measure?
Don
I had an overlength spring provided to me by Magpul with one of their stocks. The gun would sometimes, but would never lock back. It was also difficult to lock the bolt back manually.
To troubleshoot, I turned the buffer tube one full turn out of the receiver. (be careful the buffer retainer plunger will be released when you do this). I then tested it and it worked like a charm. So I left it that way. Its easy to use an ar without a buffer retainer. Just hold the buffer back and close the upper onto it.
However you do it, please turn the buffer tube one turn out from the receiver and test.
What kind of stock do you have on it?
Can you provide photos of the gun with the stock removed so we can see the tube and also a photo of the buffer and spring against a tape measure?
Don
dcmdon
NES Member
Its not gheto. Its a diagnostic process. I'm not saying to leave it that way. Well, maybe I am.
Either way. I'm primarily advocating that he try this for diagnostic purposes. The gun I did this on is purely a toy. If I cared about it being proper, I change the spring.
As it is, magpul replaced the spring, but that went into my parts box for future use.
Either way. I'm primarily advocating that he try this for diagnostic purposes. The gun I did this on is purely a toy. If I cared about it being proper, I change the spring.
As it is, magpul replaced the spring, but that went into my parts box for future use.
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Sometimes ghetto gets it done.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
To the OP, if you're in the Malden / Melrose / Reading area, let me know and I'll take a look for you. I'm pretty sure we can get it figured out. I have spare buffers, springs, etc.
dcmdon
NES Member
I actually know a guy who has a colt A1 m16 registered machine gun. That is a $15,000 lower.
He runs KNS pins in it and has removed the buffer retainer. This is all in the name of minimizing wear and tear on the lower. Its of course, a toy. So its a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
He runs KNS pins in it and has removed the buffer retainer. This is all in the name of minimizing wear and tear on the lower. Its of course, a toy. So its a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
ToddDubya
NES Member
He should just print out another one on a 3D printer and use the exact same serial number. That way he'd have a spare.
Just kidding, please NOBODY do this.
Patriot
NES Member
Hows your hammer? I only ask as 1 hammer I have has a slightly raised pad on the striking face. Looks like a rectangle on the face of the pad. This little pad dragged quite well on the bcg. Causeing many ftfeeds short cyclinng and lack of bolt lock back.
it also gave a good wear spot on the bottom of the bcg.
it also gave a good wear spot on the bottom of the bcg.
dcmdon
NES Member
This is pointless. Now, if he did the same thing with an 80% lower and finished it on a mill, we'd be talking.
I actually remember a few years ago someone purchased a registered M16 lower that appeared to be brand new.
It didn't just look in new condition. It had some of the manufacturing traits that have only been around for the last 10 or so years.
For example, it had
1) integral trigger guard
2) lettering, s/n, and logo looked laser engraved.
It was confirmed that this item was on the ATF's registry when the form 4 came back ok. But it begs the question, when does work cease to be a repair and begin to be a brand new item.
For example, if you were to weld and redrill the hammer pin holes, thats clearly a repair, and is legal.
In contrast, if you were to destroy a registered receiver and build a new one with the original maker's name and s/n, that would be illegal.
But somewhere in between those two extremes is a line. I don't think anyone knows where it is. But I digress.
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and yet this weekend at Monadnock...using a 9.9" ACE skeleton stock, a rifle length spring and rifle length buffer, we had the same experience on a tried and true upper with a new QD lower. After struggling in the am, Carl the RSO worked with us and we then tried a carbine buffer with the setup (no spacer added btw).
The thing shot like a charm, fed well and the bolt remained open at the end on multiple mags (even crappy pre-ban 30 rounders). I am concerned about this setup as their is the potential for the bolt to carry too far, but all looked good after a few flights. As Carl said, "sometime you can go all OCD or sometimes you can go with what works."
Is the ACE stock a bit shorter than standard buffer tubes?
Am I asking for trouble with this setup?
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dcmdon
NES Member
So clearly the problem was you weren't getting enough gas to move the bolt back fast/far enough to function. The lighter buffer and shorter spring allowed more travel for your given gas system and the gun worked.
This is one of the reasons that I am partial to adjustable gas blocks. You can even get an adjustable A2 front sight base if you want a traditional look.
Don
This is one of the reasons that I am partial to adjustable gas blocks. You can even get an adjustable A2 front sight base if you want a traditional look.
Don
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I added a pic of the setup and appreciate your response...if my upper is not providing enough gas, but is consistent and it now works with this non-standard setup...should I leave well enough alone (just keeping a close eye for any markings on the back of the lower to indicate too much blow back?)?
Sorry to hijack the thread...
Not to confuse this thread any further, but I had a couple issues with an Ace stock in the past. The first problem was the charging handle riding the foam on the top of the stock. This was easily solved by cutting the foam in half allowing clearance for the charging handle.
The other more serious issue was the top screw on the butt pad extending into the buffer tube, thereby shortening the depth of the tube. Some Ace set ups come with a 1" buttpad extension and a few screws of varying lengths. It's easy to use the wrong one. Also the "correct" length screw was too short causing me to inadvertently use the long one by deduction. I had to cut it to proper length.
Hold a flashlight down the tube to see if the bolt is protruding. Just my experience FWIW.
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dcmdon
NES Member
Rifle buffer tube, carbine buffer and spring.
