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A Visit to Auschwitz

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by jason19711971, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Radtekk

    Radtekk NES Member

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    Not a chance.

    See my sig line...

    One day there will be a reckoning, I have no doubt. I hope I'm alive to see it.

    When I was in high school I went to Israel for a 6 week youth group pilgrimage. Among other things, we went to Yad Vashem. That night we said our evening prayers at "The Wall" in Jerusalem. I think I might have managed to actually pronounce 5 or 6 words of the entire Mourner's Kaddish. Thirty 17-18 year old kids on a bus back to our dorm, I don't think I've ever heard so little talking from that kind of group. That was the summer of 1980, I still remember.
     

  2. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    I’ve read extensively on the Holocaust and this is the first time I’ve ever run across anything even remotely like this. It doesn’t even make sense logistically. The crematoria were little tubelike things, not massive heated rooms.

    The ovens were for disposal. The killings happened in the gas chambers, generally. Those were underground, but the prisoners walked there.
     
  3. mibro

    mibro NES Member

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    ...Andersonville. Don't kid yourself, we're all capable of it. The person who will die for their principles is very rare, though it does happen.

    We did a small amount of exterminating ourselves right after the war in the Rheinwiesenlager, 19 camps where some thousands of German prisoners were starved to death during the summer of 1945 while a political battle raged in Washington over what to do with Germany and the Germans.

    By far the largest number of Jewish Holocaust victims were Polish and Russian Jews. According to the Avalon Project at Yale Law School the Jewish population of Germany in 1939 was 215,000, a decline of about 285,000 since 1933 as German Jews fled the country to escape the Nazi regime.
     
  4. Mike Stanton

    Mike Stanton

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    I don't believe they are so much NAZI MEMORIALS as WAR MEMORIALS.

    A great many Germans were caught up with the nonsense.

    And don't tell me every Nazi was bad.

    Schindler was a Nazi.
     
  5. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    A Blessing on the Sons of Abraham.
     
  6. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    My first serious girlfriend was born in Israel. Both her Parents were Auschwitz servivors with the tattoos.

    I've been to Israel twice, 1987 and 2000 and visited Yad Vashem both times as well as The Wall. There isn't much more sobering experience than that to be had in Israel.
     
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  7. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    A truly horrific place.
     
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  8. Me Have ADD

    Me Have ADD

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    Is that any different from Confederate memorials?
     
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  9. Jamesatrange

    Jamesatrange

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    Learning what the Nazi's did is something I reference when discussing why we cannot let the 2A be taken away from us. Disarmament was part of thier process to take over the people and land they did. What happened thier and I'm sure is happening in other world regions today is truly awful and sickens me. I had learned that when the American troops freed prisoners at the camps that would try to feed them. Many prisoners would die right on the spot as thier bodies couldn't handle the sudden food intake. It is an awful event in history. My grandfather fought the Nazis and spoke to how awful they were.
     
  10. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon NES Member

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    That's not quite true. This absolutely happened and other direct routing of incoming prisoners to ovens happened. In fact, there was one Eastern European train in 1944 that accidentally was routed directly to the ovens and survivors report a floor that moved sideways to direct the prisoners directly into the flame. Nazis constantly experimented with death processes, erecting and changing buildings.

    The effective ones are not reported on because few people were left to report. I've read eyewitness reports from Eastern European prisoners in Russian and Belorussian who chiefly were sent after 1943, once the machine was done with European Jews, and they focused on events that were not reported in Western accounts - such as pyres along the entrance walk in Auschwitz where children were directly thrown into flames. The existence of those pyres is also confirmed by one of the former body disposal workers, David Olere, an artist who created eyewitness paintings after the war: David Olère (1902 – 1985, Polish-born French)
     
  11. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    yes i think it IS different.
    Confederates were just defending their land and way of life from northern aggression, and a crazy Washington DC. I can relate to the later!!!

    Nazis were out for world domination, genocide, and a generally evil way of life. They felt superior to all other humans.

    Now when i say war memorials...there were no swastikas there or anything like that in germany. And it could have been a simple war memorial....but it was also a symbol of unbridled aggression. It was oddly serene, peaceful, beautiful, and simultaneously bone chilling too.
     
  12. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon NES Member

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    The Nazis didn't disappear just because of "denazification". Chilling indeed.
     
  13. Slotheadslim

    Slotheadslim NES Member

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    For work I’ve been to Poland over 30 times. I’ve been to Auschwitz twice. The first time by myself and the second time with a coworker. There’s a room they bring you into when you first get there to show you a movie of the camp. I went in with a bunch of high school kids who were all laughing and joking around. I can assure you they were not so happy once they left the room.

    Auschwitz and the neighboring concentration camp Birkenau are museums. Some of the things that they show you are rooms full of human hair, luggage, teeth, jewelry, other items that people would bring with them. The Nazis would do things such as use the human hair to make textiles. I think often we think of someone dying and that’s the end of it but with the Nazis actually they recycled almost everything from everybody and whatever was left (which wasn’t much) was burned. I kept it together until I walked into a room where they have picture of hundreds of children on the wall who were murdered by the Nazis, many in medical experiments, especially since my daughter was their age at the time. That is just soul crushing.

    One of the things they have you do is walk into the gas chambers and they close the doors behind you. That will leave you with nightmares. Afterward you walk into the room where they have the crematorium used to burn bodies (shown in the pictures). Once you leave that building I remember feeling so glad to be out of there alive in the sun. And that last part of the tour as you are talking to the tour guide outside of the building he shared that the ashes from the crematorium were used to make concrete, spread for fertilizer and you were basically surrounded by the dead everywhere you went. That just shattered any feeling of any safety That I had. I felt so dirty and I was certainly ready to leave.
     
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  14. garandman

    garandman Instructor NES Member

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    Another book my daughter and I read is “The Theory and Practice of Hell.”

    They are marked on military maps. We found all kinds of shrines (along the border in Bavaria).
     
  15. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    To those who say "it can't happen here" consider the formerly unthinkable things that have happened:

    - Secret lists of enemies of the state maintained by the govt and denied certain basic rights, like the right to travel by air
    - Secret court dockets that are not published, and trials that are not open to the public
    - A secret star chamber that rules on search warrants in private, and never publishes the results - even after the case is over
    - A $10,000 penalty imposed on any phone company that does not make wiretapping of any line possible from a "remote govt location"
    - The ability to send a private individual and administratively issued (no judge) warrant binding him/her to secrecy, even when that individual signed no confidentiality contract.
    - Widespread bans of entire categories of formerly legal guns for the unimportant people
    - Police departments having secret SIGINT devices (Stingray)
    - Recording of every place your license plate is spotted and, soon, your face

    Once these become fully accepted as the norm, is it really that far fetched to expect additional "formerly unthinkables" from happening?
     
  16. Laura

    Laura NES Member

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    Despite the passage of time, those pictures are still haunting.
     
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  17. SHOCKNAWE

    SHOCKNAWE

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    I wonder how many chapel’s the Russians made in Russia since they did the same thing to their own people
     
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  18. Radtekk

    Radtekk NES Member

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    Can't remember where or when I read it, but the"story" is that after the war, the country still needed to be run. Everybody in authority, EVERYBODY, was a Nazi, otherwise they wouldn't have been in power. Police Chiefs, Burgermeisters, Judges, virtually every officer in the military. Basically, by the time the war ended if you weren't a Nazi you were a private or dead. While I am sure many of the converts were unenthusiastic, I imagine many others bought in completely, either by desire or just by acting the role for so long it became their reality.

    So the Allies were faced with a population that resented them, but needed them at the same time. And the Allies needed the people in power that knew how to run things to, well, run things. So there were LOTS of "I'm sorry I was a Nazi but I had no choice, I'll be good now" conversations. Seriously, do you REALLY think there were 5 guards that survived and escaped to the US and other places? No, they took off their uniforms, claimed "It wasn't me, I dindu nuffin" and found a new gig. Neo Nazis aren't just a recent phenomenon, they're DESCENDANTS of Nazis. And while promoting Nazism or denying the Holocaust may be a crime in Germany, I would bet that if there was a referendum on repealing those laws today there would be a LOT of votes in favor.

    The winners write the history books. Anybody REALLY think that the only Germans we brought back (Think von Braun and his ilk) were "good" Germans?
     
  19. MarlboroughMan

    MarlboroughMan NES Member

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    Amazingly, despite all of the evidence, Holocaust denial still runs strong and deep in this country for some reason. Before moving to Marlborough I spent years in Framingham dealing with two idiots (Joe and Jim Rizoli) who at one point were on Framingham's Town Meeting and who both supported causes such as the Westboro Baptist Church and advocating Holocaust denial. They had a local cable tv show that I believe at some point was finally banned. I invited them at one point to come to my house and try to pin a Jewish star on my chest. The cowards didn't reply. A lot of their recent work seems to focus on anti-Brazilian rhetoric. Somehow one of these brothers is a schoolbus driver who drives kids around (and he got into a tussle that made the news when somebody on the Pike lost their temper with him and tried to climb aboard his bus).
     
  20. garandman

    garandman Instructor NES Member

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    I’ve made the point to a number of groups that, while demonstrations and other political protests have their place, Dachau and other camps were liberated, not by political actions, but by the force of American arms. We’ve engaged in other conflicts since where right and wrong were much less clear: perhaps the U.S. Army should not be used for that.

    You left out the slavery part, which was the impetus for the original seven to secede.

    To further correct you, the first act of war was the attack on Fort Sumter by Confederate forces. They wrote a song about it....
     
  21. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    Speaking only to the former - what you are basically implying is that it is a good thing for the government to limit speech because it is incorrect and advocates a repulsive viewpoint. You imply that a vote for absolute free speech is a bad thing. Is that what you intended to say?

    When Freddy Leutcher (execution specialist) stated he could not find remnants of the ZyklonB gas in the chambers, the response to to shut down his viewpoint, not counter bad information with good. A better response would have been to send in a more advanced scientific team and either find the evidence, or prove why it would not be available 50-60 years later. In other words, fight bullshit speech with accurate speech. Otherwise, it's no different that the Thai lese majeste laws, just with different specifics.
     
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  22. Me Have ADD

    Me Have ADD

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    No one denies there was a historical event called the Holocaust. What some people question are certain aspects of it. To say that, in many countries you will go to jail, why is that? What are people afraid of? During WWII, we allied with the Soviet Union, a blood-thirsty communist, atheist Christian murdering regime. We're they any worse than the NOTZEEES? Remember the Red Scare of the 1920s and 30s'?After all, they both invaded Poland and subjugated and murdered it's inhabitants (cough,cough Katyn massacre). I'm waiting for Hollywood and Steven Spielberg to make a movie about the Holodomor- the forced starvation of 6 million Ukrainians by the Bolshevik regime.
     
  23. frenchman

    frenchman NES Member

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    Been to Dachau as well. Sobering, to say the least.
     
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  24. Radtekk

    Radtekk NES Member

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    No, I'm neither advocating for or against the speech itself. The quote frequently (mis)attributed to Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." is a softer version of my feelings on the subject. Speech is speech, the words themselves have only the power the LISTENER ascribes to them, regardless of the speakers intent. They are, after all, just words. My statement stands as made, I take no position on the laws or a potential referendum, I only point out my belief that the sentiment still exists regardless of the lipstick slathered on the pig.
     
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  25. hminsky

    hminsky NES Life Member NES Member

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    Or, as Ilhan Omar would put it "some people did something and all of the Nazis were starting to lose their civil liberties".
     
  26. Mr.E

    Mr.E

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    Wow, OP I will be hitting you up for tips for Poland, want too see Auschwitz

    Went to Dachau (Munich) 3 years ago and it was moving. Very “eerie” to walk into the cells, the gas chambers, the crematorium... people need to remember this history or they are doomed to repeat it
     
  27. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

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    I didn't visit Auschwitz, but I spent a long day at Dachau in 1988, and it is unforgettable.
     
  28. ridleyman

    ridleyman NES Member

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    I was there in the 90s, visiting a friend who was teaching at a nearby college. While I was touring the place, I was noticing that the town was a bit too close to buy the residents argument that they didn't know what was going on. I'm sure that many worked there. Disgusting, and the extreme result of the same kind of absolute authority over our lives that the left desires.
     
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  29. lowbuckbob

    lowbuckbob NES Member

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    Was AOC there? Thanks for the pics.
     
  30. Slotheadslim

    Slotheadslim NES Member

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    A pleasant place to visit in Poland is the Wieliczka Salt Mine which is a 30 minute train ride outside of Krakow https://www.wieliczka-saltmine.com .
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
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