A sad tale - hazing/suicide

garandman

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A sad tale.

http://www.stripes.com/news/marine-...azing-after-nephew-committed-suicide-1.408982

Marine in Afghanistan falls asleep four times on watch.

For 3 ½ hours that night, Lew did push-ups and crunches in full body armor with a boot on his back, according to a military investigation report obtained by the Marine Corps Times and reported in 2011. He was allegedly kicked, stomped and punched, and was ordered to dig a 6-foot-deep foxhole so he could serve watch standing up. At one point, a bag of sand was poured over his nose and mouth, military juries were later told.

At 3:43 a.m. on April 3 — 22 minutes after the violent hazing ended — Lew crawled into the foxhole his fellow Marines reportedly forced him to dig and scrawled a message on his arm.

“May hate me now, but in the long run this was the right choice," it read. "I'm sorry my mom deserves the truth."

Then he put the muzzle of his machine gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. He was scheduled to return home just a few months later.

Like Bergdahl, these kind of events make me wonder if we are taking kids into the services not because they should be there, but because there's no one else available.

This is nothing new and my dad described for me a "blanket party" he was involved in while going through Navy basic in 1941. But some people just aren't cut out for the military.
 
Sorry he found it necessary to off himself but clearly he was not cut out to be a Marine. Falling asleep on guard duty once is dire but more than once is unforgivable. He should have accepted his 'hazing' as a Marine, not a wimp.
 
Sorry he found it necessary to off himself but clearly he was not cut out to be a Marine. Falling asleep on guard duty once is dire but more than once is unforgivable. He should have accepted his 'hazing' as a Marine, not a wimp.
You're born this way not moulded, yes you can train to an extent for this but not made into this. If he isn't cut out for his Job get rid of him I say.
 
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It was a leadership failure plain and simple. Once he became a problem he should have been moved somewhere where he wouldn't be a problem (this happens frequently). Falling asleep on post in a war zone is a cardinal sin. Also after this happened multiple times it should have become apparent that there was something wrong with this kid.

As to the first comment, not everyone who makes it into the military should be there. It has nothing to do with relaxed standards and everything to do with in inability to know with certainty that someone is fit for service. IMO the Marine Corp should be more exclusive, but its not and won't anytime soon.

Hazing is a touchy subject. It serves its purpose but only if done right. My friends who are occifers or who are in other services have had the zero tolerance kool-aid, I disagree.

Mike
 
It was a leadership failure plain and simple. Once he became a problem he should have been moved somewhere where he wouldn't be a problem (this happens frequently). Falling asleep on post in a war zone is a cardinal sin. Also after this happened multiple times it should have become apparent that there was something wrong with this kid.
This seems to be true in the place of Bergdahl as well. He went walkabout before they even got to Afghanistan. But I believe higher is under pressure for numbers.
 
It's more the bureaucracy than anything else is my guess. Nobody wants to do the paperwork. Every unit has their 10%, and of those only a few are so bad they need to be put somewhere else.

Mike
 
It was a leadership failure plain and simple. Once he became a problem he should have been moved somewhere where he wouldn't be a problem (this happens frequently). Falling asleep on post in a war zone is a cardinal sin. Also after this happened multiple times it should have become apparent that there was something wrong with this kid.

As to the first comment, not everyone who makes it into the military should be there. It has nothing to do with relaxed standards and everything to do with in inability to know with certainty that someone is fit for service. IMO the Marine Corp should be more exclusive, but its not and won't anytime soon.

Hazing is a touchy subject. It serves its purpose but only if done right. My friends who are occifers or who are in other services have had the zero tolerance kool-aid, I disagree.

Mike
Agree 100%
 
I don't want to take from the sadness of this story but yes, hazing is definitely a touchy subject, especially in the Corps. Case in point, crossed the equator on a naval vessel and was on my way to Australia for a few months. We endured the legendary "Shellbacking". Yes, it was entered into my service record book but a couple years later, there's was a big bold X across the page. They considered it hazing
 
There are two types of hazing. Traditional hazing and un****ing someone hazing. Usually the latter is related to the task at hand. Both can be taken too far.

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
 
It was a leadership failure plain and simple. Once he became a problem he should have been moved somewhere where he wouldn't be a problem (this happens frequently). Falling asleep on post in a war zone is a cardinal sin. Also after this happened multiple times it should have become apparent that there was something wrong with this kid.

As to the first comment, not everyone who makes it into the military should be there. It has nothing to do with relaxed standards and everything to do with in inability to know with certainty that someone is fit for service. IMO the Marine Corp should be more exclusive, but its not and won't anytime soon.

Hazing is a touchy subject. It serves its purpose but only if done right. My friends who are occifers or who are in other services have had the zero tolerance kool-aid, I disagree.

Mike

How about some zero tolerance kool aid for sleeping on hole watch while they are at it.
 
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Sorry he found it necessary to off himself but clearly he was not cut out to be a Marine. Falling asleep on guard duty once is dire but more than once is unforgivable. He should have accepted his 'hazing' as a Marine, not a wimp.

Wholly ****ing shit!
 
Ok so the man wasn't suited for the position that was assigned to him, I understand that. What I don't think the family understands is that if his platoon was ambushed during his watch he would have been held accountable for his actions IE his fellow Marines being KIA.

There is two sides to all stories, but in this situation I side with the courts. You never sleep on your watch and if I caught a fellow Marine passed out it would take a lot of self control to not beat his ass.
 
I don't have any comment or opinions about hazing or peer discipline in the military. I just want to point out that in cases like these, I wouldn't want to stop asking "why" quite so soon. I don't think his peers hazed him because they wanted to. I don't think he committed suicide because he was hazed. The impetus or "last straw" that results in something bad happening in a complex situation is not necessarily the thing that needs fixing.
 
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Falling asleep while on watch in Helmand Province? ****ing yikes. He is lucky he did not get most of the guys killed.
 
He should have been charged and removed after the second offense. This did not need to have happened. I imagine the shortage in man power had some something to do with this. Not to mention the laziness to do the paperwork to process him out. They probably had the mentality that they were doing him a favor since this was better than a dereliction of duty charge and a dishonorable discharge.

I went through some hazing myself back in the day, but not all of it was bad. It was considered an honor to walk the gauntlet and have your stripes "pinned" by your fellow NCOs or to be "blood striped" when I finally became a Sgt. Those were bruises of pride and not borne from malice.
 
It was a leadership failure plain and simple. Once he became a problem he should have been moved somewhere where he wouldn't be a problem (this happens frequently). Falling asleep on post in a war zone is a cardinal sin. Also after this happened multiple times it should have become apparent that there was something wrong with this kid.

As to the first comment, not everyone who makes it into the military should be there. It has nothing to do with relaxed standards and everything to do with in inability to know with certainty that someone is fit for service. IMO the Marine Corp should be more exclusive, but its not and won't anytime soon.

Hazing is a touchy subject. It serves its purpose but only if done right. My friends who are occifers or who are in other services have had the zero tolerance kool-aid, I disagree.

Mike

Enough said.

Officer hazing does happen; I've got a Prop Blast card to prove it, and the armor guys do Spur Rides. But the emphasis is different and it's a one-time thing, not sustained.
 
"Hazing" obviously spans a wide spectrum. As a punishment, as a right of passage, tradition, etc. The million dollar question is can you do it without crossing the line. IE blood-pinning and blood-striping without causing injury. I've seen high ranking officers tap rank into a Junior Marine's collar bones during a promotion. This is different than dudes who hammer fist someones collar bone until it breaks... I think the line here is obvious, but some don't get it.

As a punishment... I think PME is better. Someone ****s up on watch (stateside), make then take every other shift for a couple nights, make sure they can repeat all their general orders, have them write them down a few hundred times to prove they remember them, have them dig a fighting position so they can keep watch from that the next night or two, and show their fellow Marines how a proper fighting position is set up. Beating someone senseless is stupid. Furthermore, in Afghanistan, where this incident took place, it was a true safety risk and should have been dealt with as such. Giving the kid less sleep and putting him back on post in a war zone is stupid from a leadership perspective. There was probably something wrong here...

I've been blood-pinned and blood-striped, it wasn't taken too far and it's a tradition thing. This doesn't mean it is never taken too far.

Mike
 
Sad story - but his unit is better off without him. Sad he had to die to make it so - but it's a war zone. we're not talking about school yard at recess. You eff up like that and there are a lot more families missing loved ones. If someone's not on point then leadership needs to correct the problem. I will not judge how military commanders operating in a war zone choose to do so... but if I were one of his peers - damn right I would have been involved in "correcting" his behavior as directed by the Sargent. That's the ultimate sign of disrespect for your brothers in arms - endangering their lives so you can have effen nap..

Sorry - but I don't feel sorry for the dude. Man up to your responsibilities and your duty to your brothers in arms or don't sign on the effen dotted line.
 
It was a leadership failure plain and simple. Once he became a problem he should have been moved somewhere where he wouldn't be a problem (this happens frequently). Falling asleep on post in a war zone is a cardinal sin. Also after this happened multiple times it should have become apparent that there was something wrong with this kid.

As to the first comment, not everyone who makes it into the military should be there. It has nothing to do with relaxed standards and everything to do with in inability to know with certainty that someone is fit for service. IMO the Marine Corp should be more exclusive, but its not and won't anytime soon.

Hazing is a touchy subject. It serves its purpose but only if done right. My friends who are occifers or who are in other services have had the zero tolerance kool-aid, I disagree.

Mike

I disagree with the hazing. Punishment is laid out in UCMJ for offenses. If someone can't cut it, then relieve them. But letting military memebers dole out their own punishment is not military justice. Yes there are more than a few people I wish I had a "negligent discharge" with in the army with, there is an established process to deal with this. Now look at the mess it created. Law suits, people relieved, careers ruined, bad press, and so on. At the end of the day he should of be relieved and charged with dereliction of duty and sent home.
 
You don't use the UCMJ, or even an article 15 or page 11, to correct small deficiencies. Yes, in this case this kid should have faced the UCMJ... Although I would be surprised if there wasn't something else going on. It goes beyond shitbaggery to fall asleep on post in a warzone multiple times.

Mike
 
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