A Reaction to my Decision to Get a LTC

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YogSothoth

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I work with a small, tight-knit group of people (we are our own division within a larger company). We've been friends for years, some of us even worked together at previous jobs. Unfortunately, this kind of camaraderie sometimes leads to problems. For example, when I started the process to get my MA LTC I let the other guys know what I was doing and how much I was looking forward to being able to go target shooting someplace other than my sister's house in Vermont.

Well, one of my coworkers got it into his head that once I got my LTC, I was going to come into the workplace armed and, fed up with one thing or another, start shooting people. When I realized his concern wasn't a joke (he was saying these things while laughing, but it was strained), I tried to calm him down. I explained that I'm primarily interested in target shooting, that company policy (as stated in the employee manual) barred me from bringing any weapons to the office and, finally, that it my willingess to take all the time, money and effort needed to go through the MA licensing requirements is proof that my intentions are legitimate. I very carefully explained to him that the last thing I ever want to do is shoot another person. None of this made any impact.

He was on the phone with HR one day to talk about our new hires and told the HR rep that I was getting a LTC, asking her if I was allowed to bring the gun to work (this after I already explained to him that it was against company policy). She gave him the info and then, a few days later, called him to say she'd had a dream where I came into the office and shot him. The only reason I can think of for this reaction from her (she's from another office and has only met me once) is because I'm a big guy with a long goatee (I've had one form of beard or another since I could grow one in high school) and can, apparently, look intimidating to someone who doesn't know me.

This all started months ago. I've since gotten both my Class B LTC and the subsequent upgrade to a Class A. My paranoid coworker has slowly come to realize that I'm not going to become a spree-killer simply because I got a LTC. He's even gotten to the point where he's looking at different pistols with me (he's even been encouraging me to get a pre-'98 Glock). Even better, another of my coworkers has submitted his application for a LTC A.

I just thought it was kind of crazy how this uninformed person automatically assumed the worst about me simply because I wanted to get a LTC. I still don't know how I went from being a trusted co-worker and friend to potential spree killer and back to trusted coworker and friend. Overall, a strange situation.
 
Sounds like you handled it well. I get all sorts of comments at work like "Don't piss Derek off or he'll shoot you" and "You're not going to shoot me are you?" It gets old quick. I came in one day with my shirt un-tucked and my boss patted me down to make sure I wasn't carrying.

I don't understand it. You can tell that people who know nothing about guns are very nervous around them. But I do think the best thing to do is try to educate them on the matter as much as possible and attempt to open their eyes on the subject as much as possible.

What I do like though is the company policy about no guns. Thinking that if the law against murder wont stop someone from shooting up the work place, the company manual will.
 
Good job.

I've run into similar reactions in the past. One of my responses has been, "Oh, no. I can't shoot any of you. My license is for all lawful purposes. Now if I didn't have a license I wouldn't have to put up with that pesky restriction." If they're too dense to get the point, I usually try to avoid them, since whatever they've got might be contagious.

Ken[/i]
 
I tell people/friends that I have a LTC. They usually reply with "Why do you need to carry a gun?" I then tell them I live within 1 mile of welfare valley (Great brook valley) All the hookers bring thier "John's" to a dead end street right around the corner.Also the crackheads that score in the valley and drive right down to the same dead end and smoke up.just about every night I see this shit (hypos and used rubbers on the ground,druggies in parked cars) so I ask them,would you want to take a chance that some freaked out crack head might decide my Boxer could get them a rock or two in trade and try to take him from me ? I can't wait to get out of this craphole of a city,and move to NH.

I notice that when I am speaking to a relatively sane person,and tell them WHy I need to carry,they generally understand. One thing they don't get is my fascination with military type rifles :)

Plus my favorite line,"It's better to have a gun and not need one,than it is to need a gun and not have one."
 
When I got my first LTC in 1976, I needed a signature or letter from my employer. Stone & Webster Engineering was an old Yankee firm with very strange rules and “pecking order” of doing things. They almost had to forward my request to a VP for the signature/letter! Luckily ~4 levels up from me was a manager who had shot competitively in the Service, so once he learned that target shooting was my interest and “I wasn’t planning on being a cop” (his question to me), he signed for me. It wasn’t until 1978 that I joined the PD, and that was actually due to the personal request of my police chief (who was a personal friend by then).

When I was laid off from the late DEC in December 1992, my manager knew I was a Special PO and was into guns (hell, I was one of the founders of the Firearms Notesfile back in the early 1980s . . . the internal equivalent of this forum) although the subject almost never came up in conversation. The layoff was due to the company turning into a dinosaur and going down the tubes, not something I blamed on my manager, but he showed definite signs that he feared that I would track him down and do something (don’t think his fear had anything to do with guns). He was a very competent manager who had turned into a very bitter, paranoid and untrusting person when his late Wife died suddenly from cancer at the young age of 39 (and left him with an uncontrollable and resentful 16 year old Daughter)! I stayed in touch with my old group and when business took me to the Marlboro area, I would drop by and go out to lunch with the survivors (I even invited my former manager to join us a few times) . . . until the last survivor was laid off last year! It was only after 1998 (the infamous Chapter 180 became law) that I learned that my former boss and a few others in my former group all had LTCs.
 
A couple or three jobs back we ended up getting a new top who was a real nut case. We quickly discovered that he really wanted to get rid of four of us, all department heads. (Turns out that it didn't have anything to do with how you did your job, just that if he hired you or promoted you into your job you could do no wrong; otherwise he couldn't deal with you.) While all four of us were treated like shit, I noticed almost immediately that I always got my helping via his lackeys, never face to face like the other three. A friend in HR tipped me that he was actually afraid of me. I can't figure out why. I'm a real quiet guy, a regular pussy cat. [roll] Since we all knew how many beans make five and were all ready actively floating resumes, I decided I might as well play it for all that it was worth. I had never been one to hang diplomas on my office wall like a lot of others, so I used the frames and wall space to hang my NRA Instructor credentials, a really old photo from my USMC days (not the dress blues one; but B&W of my team in country, and similar stuff attesting to what a reliable, law-abiding guy I am. By the end of the week, his paranoia level was jacked up to where he rarely even came into the office during normal working hours. Most of the staff were laughing their asses off and really hated it when the four of us finally left.

Ken
 
I've had a few people act VERY surprised when I tell them that I'm a firarms owner. They also can't understand why I need a gun. Then, after I explain to them that I've already been a victim of violent crime, they usually quiet down. One thing I have noticed is when I tell them how much fun it is (and for the femals, how we are usually a better shot than men are), they start getting a bit curious about it. When I actually take them shooting, they're hooked. :D

And you're correct, Derek, those "feel good" laws, like company handbooks that say "no guns allowed" will stop a speeding bullet better than Superman could. <snort> That's all they are is "feel good" laws. They don't do diddlysquat, but if it's on the books it will instill a sense of security in the sheeple. And I'll carry anywhere I damn well feel the need to ... which is basically whenever I leave the house. :D
 
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who's experienced this kind of response. I still remember the fear in people's eyes when I hung a picture of myself shooting a Glock under the watchful eye of an FBI agent at Ft. Devons during an FBI Civilian Academy (I wish I had a picture with the HK MP5). I eventually took it down because it "made people uncomfortable". This was a regular size print mixed in with other pictures of various places I've visited. Once the person who "felt uncomfortable" left the group, I hung one of my first targets from my first day at the range with my 686. I suppose I'm not straining to make the situation better :)

I guess I'm not really all that surprised given the propaganda to which most people are exposed. I understand the rationale behind my company's, and most others, decision to ban weapons in the workplace, but I don't agree that it makes sense. I know I'm hardly the first person to express this sentiment (especially on this board), but I always wonder why it is that people think that all these rules and laws and restrictions will keep them safe when it's the nature of a criminal and a criminal act to break rules/laws/restrictions. People need to start taking responsibility for their own lives and actions.

Speaking of which, I need to save me some cash and get to some official training beyond the basic course. I hear the Sig academy is good, I may have to check that out.

BTW: sheeple...I love it. I'm going to have to steal that from you, Lynne.
 
It's pretty disheartening. With the amount of sheer random violence you hear about every day, it makes me wonder how someone with a family could NOT own a gun. It's almost irresponsible. I don't yet have kids, but if I did I would hate to think I couldn't stop something terrible from happening to them, God forbid the situation arose. Often people ask me "why you need a gun?" I have always thought it would be so much worse to really be in need a gun, and only wish you had one. I don't have my LTC yet as it's a real pain in RI. It's not like MA, if you pass a BCI you can buy pistols, but no concealed carry, has to be bagged & locked.
I do some IT consulting on the side and am hoping to use being in other people's businesses and being there after hours as my "need". You have to have a "legitimate need" in the opinion of your local chief and the RI AG. Still haven't gotten around to actually doing it yet though.
 
crazyneddie said:
It's pretty disheartening. With the amount of sheer random violence you hear about every day, it makes me wonder how someone with a family could NOT own a gun.
Click to expand...

Because most of these un-informed people with their head in the sand think it's the folks who comply with all the laws to legally own firearms are the ones committing all the violence.
 
TonyD said:
Because most of these un-informed people with their head in the sand think it's the folks who comply with all the laws to legally own firearms are the ones committing all the violence.
Click to expand...

If they only knew.... Like a criminal is going to go through the poop that we have to endure!! Riiiight. I really should take up selling swam...um, print land in FL to them. <snort>
 
RI is real tough, see my comments (to be posted later) in the Gun Laws forum.

I also do IT for small businesses and can offer the following that might help you based on my work experiences:

- We carry valuable equipment that is easily fenced for drug money.
- Frequently we're transporting so much valuable equipment that it requires multiple trips into a client and is readily available to passers-by.
- We frequently work very late hours in an office that otherwise is vacant.
- Our clients are frequently in high crime areas and combined with late night work in otherwise deserted areas, makes us an easy target.
- When we are paid by clients we may frequently be carrying large sums of money (even if they are checks - someone sticks a gun in your ear, are you going to endorse the check or die?).

I had a lawfirm client in Downtown Brockton (until he stiffed me for $4K). He insisted on giving me the key to the building and alarm system. It had been a gas station at one time so it had tons of glass (making me visible from the street). I was there a number of times until 1AM and once until 5AM, holidays, etc. There were frequent shootings within a block or two of this office. One time I was detoured on my way there due to a crack house burning up a couple of row-tenements. Did I need to CCW there, you bet your ass. Did I ever go there unarmed, NO F'n way! Paint these kind of scenarios to meet the "sufficient need" issue and see if it helps.
 
LenS said:
I had a lawfirm client in Downtown Brockton (until he stiffed me for $4K). He insisted on giving me the key to the building and alarm system. It had been a gas station at one time so it had tons of glass (making me visible from the street). I was there a number of times until 1AM and once until 5AM, holidays, etc. There were frequent shootings within a block or two of this office. One time I was detoured on my way there due to a crack house burning up a couple of row-tenements. Did I need to CCW there, you bet your ass. Did I ever go there unarmed, NO F'n way! Paint these kind of scenarios to meet the "sufficient need" issue and see if it helps.
Click to expand...

The only time I do not carry is when I have to go through a metal detector...and then it depends on where it is (like the state house). That's my American Express card - I NEVER leave home without it. :D
 
Len, isn't it amazing how lawyers do not pay? They are the worst clients I ever had as a whole, and generally only pay you when they need you to do another job!!!! I hate to stereotype but Attourneys don't like to pay for IT! Allright enough lawyer bashing, I may need one someday!
Those are the basic notions I had as well, but I like the way you articulated the concerns. I really hope it isn't impossible to get. I am willing to put up with some hassle, but I live in a 1/2 horse town where it took 4 days to get my BCI check done. [roll]
 
crazyneddie said:
Often people ask me "why you need a gun?" I have always thought it would be so much worse to really be in need a gun, and only wish you had one.
Click to expand...

And then you have the situations like last night in Woburn, MA where a woman went to the apartment of her estranged husband to help him pack/move items and he ended up shooting her and turning the gun on himself:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...nd_found_dead_in_woburn_apartment_1114542074/

Theory so far is that Ajit Chordia discovered that his soon-to-be ex-wife, Sylvie Desilets, had been possibly dating a man she'd met online. He discovered this by looking through her computer. Up until this point, the split between the two had been amicable and Chordia was apparently planning to move out of the country. Instead, he asked for her to come over and help him pack some things. She, suspecting nothing, did so and he shot her four times before killing himself.

Given the situation, even had she been armed I doubt she would have had the time to react if he simply drew and fired, assuming that's what he did. Guess we'll never know.

I don't know that either of them were full US citizens or if they were Green Card holders. One wonders if he came by the handgun he used legally (I for one doubt it, but I'm sure this incident will be used by the anti-gun crowd to their fullest advantage).
 
Lynne said:
The only time I do not carry is when I have to go through a metal detector...and then it depends on where it is (like the state house). That's my American Express card - I NEVER leave home without it. :D
Click to expand...

I figure Karl Malden was a little bit wishy-washy. I put mine on when I get dressed in the morning and take it off when I go to bed at night. It's like checking the chamber whenever you pick up a firearm; once you start making exceptions, you inevitably start to make potentially deadly mistakes.

Sure, I sometimes am forced to go someplace where I can't carry, but I try to avoid those places as much as possible.

Ken
 
Eddie, yes you are right. In fact I have a business lawyer in Boston who admonished me . . . he told me to NEVER do business with an attorney unless you get paid upfront. They are all taught how to twist the system to screw the average person.

Funny thing is that now I do most of my business as a Constable, where I'm serving papers for lawyers, pro see (those representing themselves, mostly probate issues) or process servers in other parts of the state/country.

I did have to threaten to turn one attorney into the Board of Bar Overseers for non-payment. Surprisingly how fast he responded to that letter after ignoring my invoice for 4 months. The Board will address Constable complaints but they refused to take my complaint for non-payment on IT work . . . they claimed it was NOT an ethics violation to stiff a contractor (IT professional) for services provided!
 
KMaurer said:
Sure, I sometimes am forced to go someplace where I can't carry, but I try to avoid those places as much as possible.
Click to expand...

The only place I have gone with out me trusty side arm is the Minuteman National Park in Lexington. Only because Ed's part of the Militia and takes part in the reenactment and since I'm in colonial garb, it's kinda hard to carry my 9mm in an ankle holster. I've got no where else to hide it...trust me - those corsets are a killer! [lol] Other than that, if I can't take my gun, I usually don't go. I'm going to miss it this weekend since I'm going to PA. :(
 
Lynne,

If you had a FL NR CCW, you could legally carry in PA. Of course there is the little problem of NY and NJ . . . both states that don't recognize FOPA . . . so driving thru them with a gun locked in the trunk is a risky business.
 
LenS said:
Lynne,

If you had a FL NR CCW, you could legally carry in PA. Of course there is the little problem of NY and NJ . . . both states that don't recognize FOPA . . . so driving thru them with a gun locked in the trunk is a risky business.
Click to expand...

According to Packing.org PA also recognizes your NH non-resident permit. (Knowing where you live, I just assume that you've got one.) New York is still its usual obnoxious self, but NJ has recognzed FOPA for quite some time. I've got a copy of a "to the troops" letter from their AG explaining things to the hyper-agressive state police who used to routinely arrest everybody they found driving through on the turnpike with guns on board. He basically told them that unless they had a reason to believe that the person couldn't legally possess at their starting and/or end point, then they shouldn't arrest or hassle them.

Ken
 

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