I have been going to the range alot more lately(or more finally) trying to get tighter groups because I want to start getting into competition shooting. I keep a good straight group for the first 50 rounds or so shooting in reps of ten and then by about 100-150 I am shooting all accross the board. I typically shoot my glock 21 and my beretta 92fs when I go. Does anyone have any good tips for gaining better stamina for shooting for longer without getting slightly shakey?
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a cure for shooter fatigue?
- Thread starter glockstones
- Start date
Yes. Take a break! You're not going to shoot fifty rounds on any one competition stage. Practice how you expect to shoot.
Actually at a 2700, 50 rounds is a warm up.
I use a small dumb bell, about 2 pounds or so, hold it at full extension till I start to "feel" it, do about 10 reps at a time, at least once a day.
My national match avg. went up about 20 points doing nothing more than the weight training. Now I just need to learn trigger control.
I use a small dumb bell, about 2 pounds or so, hold it at full extension till I start to "feel" it, do about 10 reps at a time, at least once a day.
My national match avg. went up about 20 points doing nothing more than the weight training. Now I just need to learn trigger control.
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Shoot more.
Slightly shakey? Muscle fatigue, low sodium, low potassium, too much simple sugars in you, low blood sugar.
Have something to eat before you shoot and drink a gatorade/powerade with it. That'll eliminate the sodium/potassium/low sugar possibilities.
Avoid having sweets several hours before shooting.
If you're still shaking, then it's your muscles and you need to build them up a bit.
Do what works for every sport. After a while take a week off. When you come back you will shoot much better.
This worked for me when i used to run 4 miles 5 days a week, when i played Rugby, and when i played Bass. Taking a week off and resting helps a lot.
IF your body is not used to shooting so much, then you will develop more muscle in certain areas that you didnt use before. If you do something too much for too long you get too tired and dont give your muscles a chance to recuperate and build (get stronger).
This worked for me when i used to run 4 miles 5 days a week, when i played Rugby, and when i played Bass. Taking a week off and resting helps a lot.
IF your body is not used to shooting so much, then you will develop more muscle in certain areas that you didnt use before. If you do something too much for too long you get too tired and dont give your muscles a chance to recuperate and build (get stronger).
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I agree with everyone else. Continuing to shoot often will help build muscle stamina and memory. Just like any sport, shooting uses a series of muscles that need to be trained and exercised. And as will mentioned, remember that a match is not a continuous string of crazy shooting. Round counts vary but an IDPA match can typically be 100-150 rounds and USPSA 150-250. This is over a 4-6 hour period so there is plenty of time for recovery. If you aren't already doing it, add dry firing into your training routines too.
Continuing to shoot when your groups go to hell is a mistake. This is called "practicing your mistakes". Shooting badly is not good practice. Take a break and rest until you can get back into the groove. Dry firing is inexpensive and will help build up your stamina. Weight training will also help.
The instuctor who introduced me to the term "practicing your mistakes" would repeatedly warn his students not to continue to shoot once fatigue set in. He would suggest that 100 to 200 rounds per session was enough. In a conversation with me at a later date he let slip the fact that he had shot 600 rounds in a practice session trying to master a new course of fire added to the Bianchi Cup match. Of course I let him have it. 600 rounds! What about 200 rounds per practice session? This was done in jest as I already knew the answer; this guy was a pro and had developed the stamina for such a training regimen. Just like any other physically demanding sport shooting requires strength and stamiina developed by repetitions. As you progress your increased stength and stamina will allow you to train longer. The trick is to know when to stop and rest. Shooting badly will not train you to shoot well.
The instuctor who introduced me to the term "practicing your mistakes" would repeatedly warn his students not to continue to shoot once fatigue set in. He would suggest that 100 to 200 rounds per session was enough. In a conversation with me at a later date he let slip the fact that he had shot 600 rounds in a practice session trying to master a new course of fire added to the Bianchi Cup match. Of course I let him have it. 600 rounds! What about 200 rounds per practice session? This was done in jest as I already knew the answer; this guy was a pro and had developed the stamina for such a training regimen. Just like any other physically demanding sport shooting requires strength and stamiina developed by repetitions. As you progress your increased stength and stamina will allow you to train longer. The trick is to know when to stop and rest. Shooting badly will not train you to shoot well.
get one of these. They work surprisingly well on strengthening the small wrist muscles that are hard to exercise:
http://www.google.com/products/cata...ult&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQ8wIwAg#
Of course, it could be muscles anywhere in your body. Trying to keep a handgun immobile involves your back, core, legs, feet. Any obvious weaknesses need work.
http://www.google.com/products/cata...ult&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQ8wIwAg#
Of course, it could be muscles anywhere in your body. Trying to keep a handgun immobile involves your back, core, legs, feet. Any obvious weaknesses need work.
Everybody has their own methods, but mine is to white knuckle the grip. When I shoot the pistol it doesn't move more than and inch or so up/down -- recoil is absorbed by my hands getting me back on target quicker. That is what I teach/was taught and it works very well for me. I've mentioned Bill Rogers a lot as one of my shooting mentors, and that is what he teaches.
When I am done shooting with the pistol,, the pistol grip markings are embedded on my hand. Honestly, at the basic level and for "slow fire" I was taught a different grip, it wasn't until I got into face paced shooting that I was taught the "gorilla grip." Plenty of people will tell you otherwise, but if you are doing any type of speed shooting -- a good white knuckle grip is great for muzzle control. My grip actually starts at my toes -- working up my body through my core and right down to my grip.
If you look at this picture below of Bill Rogers -- notice the three empty cases in the air -- he doesn't achieve that with a loose grip.
Whatever you do -- just do it consistently.
To the OP -- the best way to get past shooter fatigue is to dry/fire more. What you eat and all that jazz can be a factor, but without getting to technical -- the best way to get past the fatigue you get after 50 rounds or so -- is to train more. Don't be happy with sloppy shots,, or not consistently sloppy -- make every round count. Don't be afraid to take a break, smoke if you do, dip if you do, drink a coffee -- and then get back out there and train. Oh, and breath - breathing is very important to overcome fatigue of any type.
I had the opposite experience when trying to resolve the challenge of the OP - but then again there are no pictures of me shooting with three casings in the air..
To try to get better recoil control I tried the white knuckle technique for 6 months. I would dry fire every day with this grip until the grips were embedded in my hand - and weekly with live fire. I found that this caused pain in my hands, particularly around my knuckles and in the muscles in my forearms. I found that I had issues holding the gun since my hands were in pain, and the length of range sessions had to be shortened.
I then witnessed a firearms instructor shooting with only the thumb and trigger finger to prove that it was unnecessary for the average shooter. I stopped the white knuckle technique and my endurance went up.
So, in my case to improve my endurance I did the following: reduced my grip, drink water during shooting, bring the pistol to low-ready or holster when groups started to spread, and to increase the dry firing to near daily. This seems to work well for me.
J
Jose
What kind of competition are you working up for?
I am not sure of which exactly right now but I am interested in the IDPA and the 3 gun. I also wouldn't mind doing some slow fire pistol stuff though. My groups are good(not the greatest but until recently I was "ok" with being that way) I just have no stamina to keep going there have been some good suggestions on here that I am definatly going to look into trying.
I've seen this, and the point is valid -- but I have also seen somebody hold a pistol upside down, and as long as the sights are aligned and the trigger press is smooth, then you can hit the intended target. (Same thing as shooting with a cant, some say it is "ghetto" and a thing for the movies, I disagree it's a little more natural to shoot with a slight cant in the weapon.) But,,, that is good to make a point and to show alternative methods but it might not work when you need it the most. This topic (of grip strength) is another one that can vary from person to person,, it is not cut and dry, like lets say,, sight alignment is. I will also say if you are doing a lot of slow fire, aka -- "precision" competition pistol shooting from 25 or 50 yards, you may want to adjust your grip. But then again, usually you are doing that one handed and turned sideways to the target, so it is a different animal. When I shoot (or did) shoot competitively in slow fire events my whole stance is different then when I am trying to pound steel plates on a rack. But I can assure you, when I come from the holster, or the hunt, in a IDPA type event I am contracting and squeezing my whole body from the tip of my toes all the way up to my hands. And, I assume that is how I will react if and when the moment of truth happens for me.
general body conditioning does wanders (i.e. exercise more), higher metabolism rate helps your recover better, build muscles in the right places, be better alert. I used to do endurance riding and in the periods of too much work (office job), anything physical would tax me quickly.
I'd avoid too much stimulants. Coffee brings you up, but when it leaves the body, it does so fairly quick and some people have hard time noticing the change. So on long trips, I never drink coffee.
Another long distance riding trick is to use a few lemon sour drops, the really sour ones. Those really jog your senses for a little longer.
Another trick is a whiff of ammonia smelling salt, the ones that are used to bring some one out of fainting. Same thing, senses kick in fast.
Also, taking a 5 min brake and do a few jumping jacks.
I think that the most difficult parts in training, like that last rep while lifting, is what give you the most benefit. You got to make sure that you are not trying to just empty the clip and making each shot count.
My old shooting instructor had a reverse solution, if you were shooting badly, he would give you 5 shots to do in 30 min![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
it sucked, it was embarrassing, but I'll tell you, I'd not take a shot just to get it out. ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
, ok may be that's too crazy.
I'd avoid too much stimulants. Coffee brings you up, but when it leaves the body, it does so fairly quick and some people have hard time noticing the change. So on long trips, I never drink coffee.
Another long distance riding trick is to use a few lemon sour drops, the really sour ones. Those really jog your senses for a little longer.
Another trick is a whiff of ammonia smelling salt, the ones that are used to bring some one out of fainting. Same thing, senses kick in fast.
Also, taking a 5 min brake and do a few jumping jacks.
I think that the most difficult parts in training, like that last rep while lifting, is what give you the most benefit. You got to make sure that you are not trying to just empty the clip and making each shot count.
My old shooting instructor had a reverse solution, if you were shooting badly, he would give you 5 shots to do in 30 min
it sucked, it was embarrassing, but I'll tell you, I'd not take a shot just to get it out. , ok may be that's too crazy.
Bill Nance
Banned
OK, I'll reply to this with a very honest question:
I too have problems after 50 rounds or so with a pistol. I know some of it is from general lack of fitness but when I went to a local gym to get some training they only wanted to do major muscle groups which are already pretty ok. (I can do 50 fast situps, 50 pushups and 20 pullups just fine). It's the small muscle groups especially in my wrists and forearms that are weak as all Hell.
I'm preparing for some serious firearms training but I know it will be wasted if I'm not in proper physical shape. Does anyone have some specifics (personal experience only please) on those small muscle groups that would help? I know my forearms have always been piss-weak, even when I was in the best shape of my life in the military. It's just the way I'm built. But I'm also sure that can be worked with. Your experience would be immensely helpful.
Thanks for your help,
Bill
I too have problems after 50 rounds or so with a pistol. I know some of it is from general lack of fitness but when I went to a local gym to get some training they only wanted to do major muscle groups which are already pretty ok. (I can do 50 fast situps, 50 pushups and 20 pullups just fine). It's the small muscle groups especially in my wrists and forearms that are weak as all Hell.
I'm preparing for some serious firearms training but I know it will be wasted if I'm not in proper physical shape. Does anyone have some specifics (personal experience only please) on those small muscle groups that would help? I know my forearms have always been piss-weak, even when I was in the best shape of my life in the military. It's just the way I'm built. But I'm also sure that can be worked with. Your experience would be immensely helpful.
Thanks for your help,
Bill
dont get me wrong, im sure being in shape cant hurt........but dont think you need to look like a spartan in order to shoot well.......
....some of the best shooters in the world arent exactly what ide call in the best of shapes.......
Try this simple test. Hold your arm out as if it was holding a gun. Have someone else try to move your hand up, down, left, right as you resist. Feel those muscles? Not able to keep your hand in place as they move it? Those are the muscles you need to strengthen.
J
Jose
Every handgun competition discipline I know of involves a few seconds of shooting followed by minutes of standing around.
I think you are beating yourself over the head needlessly with this.
thanks for the info because actually the other part of these competitions I am learning is the rules and layout part I have been to a few to watch but never really participated in any of them.
J
Jose
Maybe you should stop trying to be "good enough" before you compete.
Maybe you should just sign up, pay the fee, tell the match director your're a noob, and let it take you where it will.
After a decade of highpower rifle competition, I've seen the kind that keeps staying on the sidelines until they are "good enough". The truth of the matter is you will never be good enough practicing by yourself.
You WILL get smoked on your first few matches, maybe even your first year of competition. But if you have a strong character, strong will, strong work ethic, and you ignore the first season ego crush, you will become better.
BTDT
Well you are ahead of me. I never went to any USPSA matches before I fired one. As long as you are safe and can follow directions you should be good to go for a local club match. I'm going to try IDPA this spring. Not going to go to one just to watch though.
B
I've had one of these gyroscopes for about 7 years. I ordered it straight from the UK (Scottland I think) as they were not available in the states yet. I wore the first one out after a few years of heavy use.
This will definitely help all your small muscles from your fingertips to your biceps.
I used it daily in my 45 min each way commute, you'll have a retard strength grip if you keep at it, highly recommended!
Things I've learned.....
-Continuing to shoot after you're burned out is dumb. You're just wasting ammo, and it does two things... it ingrains bad habits, and it destroys your confidence. Try to find out where that tipping point is, and stop. Sometimes even breaking it up a bit helps, too.
-If you're not well rested and haven't at least had a little bit of food and water in your system before you are going to the range, your performance will suffer. If you are in a pinch bring some snacks with you like crackers or whatever, or granola bars, and some water.
-Don't over caffeinate. I find it's not too bad up to a point, but if I go to the range with nothing but "coffee in the tank" I'm typically going to be in deep trouble.
-Even if you bring multiple guns, try to focus on one or two of them. Constantly switching back and forth is bad. I honestly believe my progress in learning how to shoot better was stunted by the fact that I had 5 different triggers to learn. Later on transitioning will be easier, but if you don't have a lot of experience it just adds another variable to the mix to mess with your head.
-Make sure you have good hearing protection. Muff and plug for handguns if you
can, especially if you are shooting indoors. If your ears are bothering you for whatever reason, all it will do is distract you from shooting well.
-Mike
-Continuing to shoot after you're burned out is dumb. You're just wasting ammo, and it does two things... it ingrains bad habits, and it destroys your confidence. Try to find out where that tipping point is, and stop. Sometimes even breaking it up a bit helps, too.
-If you're not well rested and haven't at least had a little bit of food and water in your system before you are going to the range, your performance will suffer. If you are in a pinch bring some snacks with you like crackers or whatever, or granola bars, and some water.
-Don't over caffeinate. I find it's not too bad up to a point, but if I go to the range with nothing but "coffee in the tank" I'm typically going to be in deep trouble.
-Even if you bring multiple guns, try to focus on one or two of them. Constantly switching back and forth is bad. I honestly believe my progress in learning how to shoot better was stunted by the fact that I had 5 different triggers to learn. Later on transitioning will be easier, but if you don't have a lot of experience it just adds another variable to the mix to mess with your head.
-Make sure you have good hearing protection. Muff and plug for handguns if you
can, especially if you are shooting indoors. If your ears are bothering you for whatever reason, all it will do is distract you from shooting well.
-Mike
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