9mm 147gr loads with specific powders

[DarrenL]

Thinking about going to 147 gr vs 115, and wondering if anyone has used Autocomp, WSF, Universal or Bullseye for 147gr bullets and if they have had good or bad results. Also, with the speed down to 1000 fps, do people start using lead as much/more than jacketed? pros/cons? This would be with an XDM 5.25, for action shooting applications.

I ask about these powders because I have working 115 gr loads with them. Thanks.

 

[gerrycaruso]

I've loaded a lot of 147 grain bullets but not with the powders you mentioned. I used Titegroup because I have lots of it. I used polymer coated bullets.

 

[M1911]

I've only used N320 with 147 gr. I'm using JHP.

 

[thormx538]

My go-to subsonic load for my suppressor is 3.5gr of Bullseye w/ 147gr projectiles.

 

[DarrenL]

My go-to subsonic load for my suppressor is 3.5gr of Bullseye w/ 147gr projectiles.

Thorm, what brand projectiles are you using? I haven't found load data for bullseye with 147. Thanks

 

[jpm]

I used red dot with 147gr before

 

[BillO]

Ya' know, you might want to look at 124/125 grain too. I tried 147, but liked my results better going 124 grain. I use Accurate #5 but I'm almost out and can't find it anywhere. Looking a HS-6, WIN AutoComp, WSF, POWER PISTOL, Universal, and HP38 (WIN 231) -same powder.

 

[DarrenL]

Ya' know, you might want to look at 124/125 grain too. I tried 147, but liked my results better going 124 grain. I use Accurate #5 but I'm almost out and can't find it anywhere. Looking a HS-6, WIN AutoComp, WSF, POWER PISTOL, Universal, and HP38 (WIN 231) -same powder.

I am going to pelham tonight to try out the three different sizes. I have American eagle in all three grains, so hopefully it will be an apples to apples comparison. I just want to be sure before I buy more projectiles and powder.

 

[thormx538]

Thorm, what brand projectiles are you using? I haven't found load data for bullseye with 147. Thanks

Berry's plated. I actually got the load from a buddy of mine who uses XTP's. I don't know where he found the initial data, but his loads worked in his 226 and my Glocks, so I copied it. I forget what length he loads to, but I load mine to around 1.165".

 

[jar]

I am going to pelham tonight to try out the three different sizes. I have American eagle in all three grains, so hopefully it will be an apples to apples comparison. I just want to be sure before I buy more projectiles and powder.

Do you have velocity specs on the factory stuff, or a chrono? For real apples to apples, you want the power factor (velocity * weight) to be the same. Comparing ammo at the same ~132 power factor, 147 shoots noticeably softer.

 

[DarrenL]

Do you have velocity specs on the factory stuff, or a chrono? For real apples to apples, you want the power factor (velocity * weight) to be the same. Comparing ammo at the same ~132 power factor, 147 shoots noticeably softer.

Yeah, I realized that afterwards, the 147gr had a PF of 147k, and the 115 ~133k, the 124 was 142k. Still, after about 50 rounds of each total, the 147 seemed to have less muzzle flip (although subtle) and muzzle flash (noticeable in the dusk light). I tried to be as objective as possible, I shot 2-5 rounds of each weight in succession, with a quick rest in between to let my hands de-sweat. It's enough that I am going to get some 147s, I just need to find a brand and (available) powder.

I have some WSF, Hodgdon says I can use that for Lead CFP (conical flatpoint).

 

[M1911]

140+ PF for 9mm? Why? It's still not major and its way more than needed for minor.

 

[jar]

140+ PF for 9mm? Why? It's still not major and its way more than needed for minor.

He was shooting factory ammo to try out the different bullet weights.

 

[M1911]

 

[DarrenL]

Based on the lyman and speer manuals, I am going to use 3.8gr WSF and 3.5gr bullseye on a Speer #4006 147 tmj, and 3.7gr WSF and 3.4gr bullseye on a berry's plated 147 RN. Expecting/hoping 875-925 fps.

Not sure what length, everyone seems to load these 147s to 1.14" or longer.

 

[DarrenL]

Berrys with 3.6gr WSF: 879 avg, 31 s.d. If I throw out farthest outlier I get 885 avg 21 s.d

Speer 4006 with 3.6 WSF: 859 avg, 40 sd. Throw out four real low outliers, 881avg, 7.8 sd

Berrys with 3.5 bullseye: 945 avg, 32 sd

Speer with 3.5 bullseye 924 avg, 25 sd

Anyone know why I might be getting high standard dev? Using a lee perfect powder measure, and electronic scale.
Anyone else have issues with WSF being as dirty as mid-2000s Christina aguilera?
Have all powder manufacturers gone to trail boss as their pistol powder? It's the only one I ever see.

 

[DarrenL]

So I tried chnaging the powder amounts:

Berry's with 3.7gr WSF, 850avg, 25 sd

Speer 4006 with 3.8gr WSF, 876 avg, 23 sd

Berry's with 3.3 Bullseye 858 avg, 16 sd

Speer 4006 with 3.4 bullseye 874 avg, 22 sd

So dropping the powder in the bullseye loads lowered the velocity, which makes sense, but increasing the powder in the WSF loads lowered the velocity in the berry's, and only marginally increased it in the Speer. I only chrono'ed 10 loads of each, is that enough of a sample size? Is the small increase in the Speer/WSF loads just because WSF is a slow powder (especially compared to bullseye)? Why would the velocity decrease with the Berry's load? Another thing, I have two electronic scales and a beam, I can never get more than two of them to agree on a weight. Thanks.

 

[thormx538]

I don't think very fast powders are the best choice for heavy projectiles in high pressure cartridges. Kind of like punching a bowling ball with your fist instead of pushing it with your hand.

(Yes, I'm admitting my "go-to" suppressed 9mm load probably isn't the greatest).

Trust your balance beam over the electronic, IMO. That's what I do. Way too many variables with the electronic scale -- warmup time, EMI, etc..

I found AA#7 worked well for a 147gr 9mm load, but you didn't mention it in your powder list. It had too much blowback for me when shooting suppressed though. What sort of SD are you getting on your 115gr loads?

 

[DarrenL]

I don't think very fast powders are the best choice for heavy projectiles in high pressure cartridges. Kind of like punching a bowling ball with your fist instead of pushing it with your hand.

(Yes, I'm admitting my "go-to" suppressed 9mm load probably isn't the greatest).

Trust your balance beam over the electronic, IMO. That's what I do. Way too many variables with the electronic scale -- warmup time, EMI, etc..

I found AA#7 worked well for a 147gr 9mm load, but you didn't mention it in your powder list. It had too much blowback for me when shooting suppressed though. What sort of SD are you getting on your 115gr loads?

I loaded 100 more of the berry's with 3.6 of WSF, using the balance beam as the "correct" value, i.e if the electronic scales read differently, I would check on the beam. I will see how they do. I am hesitant to buy another powder since I have 2 lbs combined of WSF and Bullseye, and I also use Bullseye for 380. I also am still not convinced I want to switch to 147.
My 115 loads are SD ~20, with avg V of 1160.

 

[jar]

I don't think very fast powders are the best choice for heavy projectiles in high pressure cartridges. Kind of like punching a bowling ball with your fist instead of pushing it with your hand.

Many action pistol shooters would disagree. Like most things in reloading, it depends what you're trying to achieve. The goal in loading 9mm for action shooting (outside the niche of 9mm major open guns) is to get good accuracy and low felt recoil with a power factor (bullet weight in grains times velocity in fps) of 125,000 plus some margin(for variation in chronos, round to round, and weather). The consensus way to do this is light charges of fast powders under heavy bullets. A friend and I compared my 147gr load with his 124gr load, both at the same ~134k power factor) and the 147gr was noticeably softer.

 

[thormx538]

Many action pistol shooters would disagree. Like most things in reloading, it depends what you're trying to achieve. The goal in loading 9mm for action shooting (outside the niche of 9mm major open guns) is to get good accuracy and low felt recoil with a power factor (bullet weight in grains times velocity in fps) of 125,000 plus some margin(for variation in chronos, round to round, and weather). The consensus way to do this is light charges of fast powders under heavy bullets. A friend and I compared my 147gr load with his 124gr load, both at the same ~134k power factor) and the 147gr was noticeably softer.

Exactly -- you're right. I was speaking in terms of pressure spikes.

 

[Mikie]

The Hodgdon manual shows a max load of 4 gr Autocomp with a 147 gr JHP bullet (Golddot). I have used this load with a 147 gr coated lead bullet through several thousand rounds with excellent results, accurate and soft shooting.

 

[walter62]

do you have chrono info on that 4gn load?

 

[DarrenL]

What is with my threads being necromanced lately?

 

[Road_Clam]

My subsonic Uzi load is the 147 RN and 3.6gr of Titegroup

 

[EMTBH]

My subsonic Uzi load is the 147 RN and 3.6gr of Titegroup

What's the COL?

 

[Road_Clam]

What's the COL?

Lyman's 49th spec. 1.058"

 

[eboos]

147 Blue Bullets coated RN, 3.2gr. WST, 1.12" OAL (if I remember correctly).
Temp: approx. 45 degrees. Five shot averages:
883.8 fps from Glock 17 4.49" barrel. 130pf
906.4 fps from Glock 34 5.31" barrel. 133pf

 

[Road_Clam]

147 Blue Bullets coated RN, 3.2gr. WST, 1.12" OAL (if I remember correctly).
Temp: approx. 45 degrees. Five shot averages:
883.8 fps from Glock 17 4.49" barrel. 130pf
906.4 fps from Glock 34 5.31" barrel. 133pf

I love WST for 45acp, good to know it works for 9mm 147's . Always looking for alternate loads feedback .

 

[Mikie]

Sorry for the slow response. 4 gr Autocomp with 147 gr coated bullet out of my Glock 17 clocked at 886 fps avg., SD 10 fps. My C.O.L. was 1.090. I have to load them on the short side because a few of my 9mm guns have limited freebore.