9mm 124gr +p "target" ammo?

[StevieP]

After a lot of reading of on-line review sites, youtube video watching, and discussion board comparisons, I've 'standardized' on Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p short barrel ammunition for my everyday carry personal defense ammunition. From everything I can find, it's the highest-rated PD ammo out there. I've put a few rounds of it through my handgun, and it seems to perform well (i.e. it goes bang, and feeds well)

I'm trying to find something with equivalent ballistics for use as target ammunition, as the Gold Dots are over a buck per round. I want to do my target/practice shooting with something that has the same feel and (hopefully) accuracy out of my M&P9c.

The closest thing I can find (spec-wise) is Winchester USA (white box) 124 grain. Similar muzzle velocity, "energy" numbers, etc.

Problem is, nobody around here seems to sell it.

Is anyone aware of good quality 124 grain practice/target ammunition, available locally (I live in MetroWest)? Even Speer's own Lawman target ammo only comes in 115 grain, and isn't +P

Or am I completely over-thinking this, and should just use 115gr WWB target ammo, and not worry too much about the difference from the Speer Gold Dot?

 

[1903Collector]

Time to start brewin your own!

 

[drgrant]

Time to start brewin your own!

This. It's the only way to create the ammo you want without going broke. All I have to do to make my 124 gr FMJ load +P is add a few tenths of titegroup to crank it up, or use Power Pistol.

-Mike

 

[Dirtypacman]

I like the route of reloading also. Start now and save later - its great to have the components ready and just sit down for an hour and crank out a couple hundred for the range.

 

[StevieP]

Hmmm. Is it even possible to make your own for less than WWB or Federal, which are about twenty-three cents per round? What are the startup (and other) costs associated with re-loading? I have to believe there's a law of diminishing returns at play here... My time and effort are worth more to me than a few cents per shot price difference of a reload vs. WWB, especially if there's not "that much" difference between the Speer PD ammo, and regular target ammo.

Seriously - am I over-thinking this trying to match my practice ammo with my chosen carry ammo?

 

[Dirtypacman]

Yes to save money your over-thinking the matching practice to carry ammo. What you want to be practicing above and beyond your accuracy is the handling of the gun. Mag reloads, clearing a jam, strong hand or off hand. Just those 4 things alone will prepare you better then shooting the same type of ammo consistently.

I just started reloading 9mm and your right the cost savings are minimal compared to reloading other calibers but I am absolutely saving money as the same 50 rounds I can match at $7-8 dollars or less depending using old or new brass and what I payed for the primers/powder. When you start reloading one caliber your will most likely load another and the savings start to add up. Remember your not only saving some money but able to shoot more, learn more about the ammo you are shooting (different loads different results), and its just plain kicks ass to go downstairs and an hour later come upstairs with a few boxes of your own.

 

[jasons]

Hmmm. Is it even possible to make your own for less than WWB or Federal, which are about twenty-three cents per round? What are the startup (and other) costs associated with re-loading? I have to believe there's a law of diminishing returns at play here... My time and effort are worth more to me than a few cents per shot price difference of a reload vs. WWB, especially if there's not "that much" difference between the Speer PD ammo, and regular target ammo.

Seriously - am I over-thinking this trying to match my practice ammo with my chosen carry ammo?

9mm bullets are about 7 cents each (cheaper if you cast your own,) 3.5 grains of powder is less than a penny, a primer is about 3 cents, 9mm brass is practically free. I'd say materials cost for the average 9mm reload is about 10 or 11 cents each. (Not factoring in value of time of course, since that's subjective and varies from person to person.)

Startup costs vary. If you just load 9mm you could get away with a lee single stage and lower-end accessories and be in for probably $150 or so. Or you could go nuts and spend thousands. Depends on what you need and how far into it you want to go.

 

[M1911]

I wouldn't bother with a single stage press for 9mm. Progressive would be the way to go. Startup costs would be on the order of $500 to $1000, depending, and the press would pay for itself in less than a year.

 

[TheRoland]

Startup costs would be on the order of $500 to $1000, depending, and the press would pay for itself in less than a year.

Unless you're like me, and let the press sit in the closet for two years while continuing to buy factory ammo .

 

[jasons]

I wouldn't bother with a single stage press for 9mm. Progressive would be the way to go. Startup costs would be on the order of $500 to $1000, depending, and the press would pay for itself in less than a year.

Agreed. If you can afford one, a progressive is great for bulk loading.

 

[cekim]

This. It's the only way to create the ammo you want without going broke. All I have to do to make my 124 gr FMJ load +P is add a few tenths of titegroup to crank it up, or use Power Pistol.

-Mike

6gr of autocomp will take a 124gr projectile to 1200fps out of a 4" barrel.

 

[willbdavis]

I used to shoot the 9mm 124 gr +P. Good stuff! I really chewed up the bowling pins at the pin shoots! I liked watching the sawdust come out the back.

Yes, reload. Cheap, easy, satisfying. And most of your investment can be leveraged for additional calibers later on.

 

[jar]

I wouldn't bother with a single stage press for 9mm. Progressive would be the way to go. Startup costs would be on the order of $500 to $1000, depending, and the press would pay for itself in less than a year.

This. I load 9mm for 11 cents/round. I think my initial investment was about $600. That paid back in less than a year.

Unless you're like me, and let the press sit in the closet for two years while continuing to buy factory ammo .

We'll get you straightened out soon, or just make you go broke on factory ammo.

 

[PaulD]

Unless you're like me, and let the press sit in the closet for two years while continuing to buy factory ammo .

How much for the press?

For a steady diet of +p, I'd put a stronger recoil spring in the gun.

 

[StevieP]

For those of you who reload...

I get that your "per round" cost is lower.

But do you actually "save money" or do you just end up shooting more? Be honest.

 

[Supermoto]

For those of you who reload...

I get that your "per round" cost is lower.

But do you actually "save money" or do you just end up shooting more? Be honest.

You shoot more, it's that the point

 

[atilla]

if you're really concerned about reloading and don't want to do it you can check DSG--every once in a while they get a case or so of federal american eagle 124gr FMJ. practice with that if you insist on 124gr ammo.

 

[cekim]

For those of you who reload...

I get that your "per round" cost is lower.

But do you actually "save money" or do you just end up shooting more? Be honest.

What's wrong with shooting more and better ammo for the same or less?

As this thread demonstrates, it means that if you have a need for "hot" ammo, you can make it and make it for less than you can get limpwristed steel case ammo. I find this particularly useful for guns that _need_ hot ammo to run correctly.

Pistol calibers are particularly easy to load. No need to deal with lubrication, drilling out crimped primer pockets, etc... Because they use far less powder than rifle rounds, the savings can be substantial per round. You do have to buy in bulk to avoid hazmat/shipping eating into your savings.

 

[Slowdive]

For those of you who reload...

I get that your "per round" cost is lower.

But do you actually "save money" or do you just end up shooting more? Be honest.

In my case both...but I always tell people as a rough rule of thumb (for pistol shooting) that if you shoot less than 1000 rounds per year, reloading is probably not going to save you any money. If you shoot between 1000 and 2000, then you can shoot more for roughly the same money. If you shoot over 2000, you save money and shoot more.

I shoot ~ 7K to 10K/year ... no brainer. For rifle, I'd cut those number above in half at least.

 

[drgrant]

For those of you who reload...

I get that your "per round" cost is lower.

But do you actually "save money" or do you just end up shooting more? Be honest.

A graphical example...

Ok, I'll put it in these terms... the stuff in this pic cost me about ~$140 in mats to make, and under 4 hours of time, and due to me being a slob and being slow, that's about 2 hrs more than what it would normally take. There is 900 rounds of 124 gr 9mm and .200 rounds of .45 ACP in this pic. All of it is premium grade, adjusted to my specs.

Try getting that much ammo for $140 at wal mart and get back to us with the little pic of the.... oh wait, the 9mm would cost you $180 at WalMart, assuming that you could get your hands on 9 Federal value packs or whatever they are. Oh wait, that's 115 grain. Good luck getting 124 gr for 10 bucks a box. Then throw in the (almost?) 80 bucks for the 200 rounds of .45......

Because I reload I (usually) can afford to bring tubs of ammo to the range, not just a few boxes. Yeah, I shoot more.... but it beats the alternative.

ETA: If you went the full skinflint route and just used lead bullets only (no jacketed like the ones I have in the pic there) You would be able to make even MORE ammo
for that $140.... a lot more.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

In my case both...but I always tell people as a rough rule of thumb (for pistol shooting) that if you shoot less than 1000 rounds per year, reloading is probably not going to save you any money. If you shoot between 1000 and 2000, then you can shoot more for roughly the same money. If you shoot over 2000, you save money and shoot more.

I tell people that, too... if you are under a case or two of a given caliber per year, don't bother... but if you shoot more than 1K/caliber/year.... then you start making out on the deal. You will always be ahead if you like big bore revolver cartridges, as well... as things like .357, .44 mag, .460, .500 S+W.... the cost recovery on all of those is fast and enormous because the commercial alternatives are very expensive.

-Mike

 

[SeanT]

I don't know if there are different types of WWB at different weights, but the Wal-Mart in Ware always seems to have WWB. Guess it depends on where you are in Central MA if the drive is worth it.

 

[drgrant]

I don't know if there are different types of WWB at different weights, but the Wal-Mart in Ware always seems to have WWB. Guess it depends on where you are in Central MA if the drive is worth it.

WWB has basically priced itself out of existence, at this point. It's like $25 for 100 rounds at WalMart now. The Federal ammo at $11.97 is a better deal, and their QC is way
better, overall. The only downer to the federal stuff is it has a hell of a flash to it. I bet this is the same stuff they put in the val packs, but those seem to be rarer
than hen's teeth. Chances are that non-reloaders are buying them all up because they know it pretty much matches what one would pay buying ammo online for.

-Mike

 

[SSW]

A graphical example...

Ok, I'll put it in these terms... the stuff in this pic cost me about ~$140 in mats to make, and under 4 hours of time, and due to me being a slob and being slow, that's about 2 hrs more than what it would normally take. There is 900 rounds of 124 gr 9mm and .200 rounds of .45 ACP in this pic. All of it is premium grade, adjusted to my specs.

Try getting that much ammo for $140 at wal mart and get back to us with the little pic of the.... oh wait, the 9mm would cost you $180 at WalMart, assuming that you could get your hands on 9 Federal value packs or whatever they are. Oh wait, that's 115 grain. Good luck getting 124 gr for 10 bucks a box. Then throw in the (almost?) 80 bucks for the 200 rounds of .45......

Because I reload I (usually) can afford to bring tubs of ammo to the range, not just a few boxes. Yeah, I shoot more.... but it beats the alternative.

ETA: If you went the full skinflint route and just used lead bullets only (no jacketed like the ones I have in the pic there) You would be able to make even MORE ammo
for that $140.... a lot more.

-Mike

WOW!!!! I have to start reloading. I shoot both calibers in this picture alone. As a comparison I spent more for the 300 rounds I shot at the HSC steel shoot than you spent for the 1100 rounds pictured here.

When I go to the range I shoot between 200-300 rounds, minimum twice a month, often more frequently. So while the savings "per round" may not be huge, the volume savings can be impressive. Especially on the .45ACP which is my favorite to shoot of all the guns I have.

Thanks for the pics, helps make the point very well.

 

[SeanT]

WWB has basically priced itself out of existence, at this point. It's like $25 for 100 rounds at WalMart now. The Federal ammo at $11.97 is a better deal, and their QC is way
better, overall. The only downer to the federal stuff is it has a hell of a flash to it. I bet this is the same stuff they put in the val packs, but those seem to be rarer
than hen's teeth. Chances are that non-reloaders are buying them all up because they know it pretty much matches what one would pay buying ammo online for.

-Mike

I'll have to take your word for it. I've only been "into" firearms for 2-3 years. The $25 for 100 WWB is just what it's always been for me. I've seen people mention the Federal stuff at WM but the only kind of Federal I've seen there has been self-defense JHP.

 

[drgrant]

I'll have to take your word for it. I've only been "into" firearms for 2-3 years. The $25 for 100 WWB is just what it's always been for me. I've seen people mention the Federal stuff at WM but the only kind of Federal I've seen there has been self-defense JHP.

The $25 thing is recent, to me at least. I could have sworn it was like $23.97 last year or something like that... it's been going up like a buck a year. I remember when they were like $12.97 or something like that.

-Mike