8mm woes

[daekken]

So, I've started trying to load for my K98 and had nothing but problems, some self-inflicted, but looking for some suggestions on what my problem is.

Full disclosure: my first run I used .321 diameter projectiles that had virtually no neck tension before I realized I should have used .323. So, they fired, usually, but a couple of times the primer just popped and the projectile got lodged in the barrel, followed by dumped powder. Cleaned up as best I could, pulled those, lesson learned.

Today I tried to shot my new .323 198 grain projectiles. First shot, pop, primer detonated projectile lodged, most of the powder left, unburned.

Suggestions on my problem? Felt like there was plenty of neck tension, but I didn't crimp. Based on my manual and the cannelure on the projectile, they're seated fine. I doubt it's the primers since I've loaded other cartridges with the same box fine.

Is there something specific to the Mauser action I need to know? My only other guess was somehow the projectile was getting yanked out closing the bolt (hit the rifling or something?)

I've fired factory without any problems, so I assume it's my reloads.

 

[mac1911]

What bullets
case
Dies?

this has happened to me with cast loads.

now i have to ask.
are you sure you sized these cases?
8mm mauser is generally .323" bullet. On a good bore the grooves are .323" lands . 311"

 

[DW357]

That’s strange. Curious to hear what others have to say.

Even if there’s little neck tension, I would have thought with a case full of powder it should still be able to clear the barrel?

 

[daekken]

What bullets
case
Dies?

this has happened to me with cast loads.

now i have to ask.
are you sure you sized these cases?
8mm mauser is generally .324" bullet. On a good bore the grooves are .323" lands . 311"

Once fired PPU case. .323 PPU bullet, jacketed 198gr. Lee FL die.

Lots of variables on this one for me, namely new cartridge and new powder.

Doubt it's the primer as I've fired hundreds from this pack with no problem.

One thing that worried me was it looked like a possible clump of powder. Not sure how that could happen, as I dry tumble these and keep powder in normal conditions. Accurate 2520, loaded right in the middle 40gr manual has 38-42 range.

I'm absolutely no reloading expert but have done 7.62x54R, 223, 308, 30-06 and 303 British with no problems.

 

[gscott]

That's really strange. Bad powder ? Seems if primer fires powder should. Hope you figure it out 8mm is a great cartridge

 

[jek]

have you checked the flash holes to see if they are plugged?

 

[Uzi2]

So, I've started trying to load for my K98 and had nothing but problems, some self-inflicted, but looking for some suggestions on what my problem is.

Full disclosure: my first run I used .321 diameter projectiles that had virtually no neck tension before I realized I should have used .323. So, they fired, usually, but a couple of times the primer just popped and the projectile got lodged in the barrel, followed by dumped powder. Cleaned up as best I could, pulled those, lesson learned.

Today I tried to shot my new .323 198 grain projectiles. First shot, pop, primer detonated projectile lodged, most of the powder left, unburned.

Suggestions on my problem? Felt like there was plenty of neck tension, but I didn't crimp. Based on my manual and the cannelure on the projectile, they're seated fine. I doubt it's the primers since I've loaded other cartridges with the same box fine.

Is there something specific to the Mauser action I need to know? My only other guess was somehow the projectile was getting yanked out closing the bolt (hit the rifling or something?)

I've fired factory without any problems, so I assume it's my reloads.

Well, Sounds like maybe you need to take a reloading class and learn what you are doing before you hurt yourself or someone else.
Any offense taken is strictly your problem, not mine.

 

[highlander]

Make sure your flash holes aren't plugged with corncob. Check the expander ball to make sure it's the right diameter. Once you check your flash holes to make sure there clear try reloading a couple of cases without the expander ball in the die. You can pop the spent primers out with the expander out of the die with a small hammer.

 

[DW357]

Once fired PPU case. .323 PPU bullet, jacketed 198gr. Lee FL die.

Lots of variables on this one for me, namely new cartridge and new powder.

Doubt it's the primer as I've fired hundreds from this pack with no problem.

One thing that worried me was it looked like a possible clump of powder. Not sure how that could happen, as I dry tumble these and keep powder in normal conditions. Accurate 2520, loaded right in the middle 40gr manual has 38-42 range.

I'm absolutely no reloading expert but have done 7.62x54R, 223, 308, 30-06 and 303 British with no problems.

Clump of powder doesn’t sound good but have you used this particular lot of powder before? I would think you’d notice clumps of powder in your powder measure?

 

[Mountain]

How are you charging the loads? Check a couple and assume the rest drop the same? Besides a possible indication of bad powder, the clumps will cause powder drop feeding problems. Squibs are coming from poor ignition and/or inadequate charge.

Possible that your primers have been contaminated by oil, a solvent, or some other liquid?

Did you buy the powder new and un-opened?

I'd ensure that the flash holes are clear, use a different powder, and either weigh each drop or visually verify all cases are filled the same before you seat the bullets.

 

[daekken]

Make sure your flash holes aren't plugged with corncob. Check the expander ball to make sure it's the right diameter. Once you check your flash holes to make sure there clear try reloading a couple of cases without the expander ball in the die. You can pop the spent primers out with the expander out of the die with a small hammer.

have you checked the flash holes to see if they are plugged?

I assumed they were clear since I used a primer pocket cleaning tool after sizing and before priming. Always possible.

Clump of powder doesn’t sound good but have you used this particular lot of powder before? I would think you’d notice clumps of powder in your powder measure?

It's a new to me powder, but yes, I would have assumed I'd notice. I'm not 100% there was a clump, when I clear the case some of the loose powder fell out and I thought I saw a lump, couldn't really tell on the ground since it was wet/muddy.

How are you charging the loads? Check a couple and assume the rest drop the same? Besides a possible indication of bad powder, the clumps will cause powder drop feeding problems. Squibs are coming from poor ignition and/or inadequate charge.

Possible that your primers have been contaminated by oil, a solvent, or some other liquid?

Did you buy the powder new and un-opened?

I'd ensure that the flash holes are clear, use a different powder, and either weigh each drop or visually verify all cases are filled the same before you seat the bullets.

I manually weigh each on a small scale and fill using a funnel. New powder, opened by me.

I did open the tumbler outside under an awning (trying to not spread any dust in the basement) and it was drizzling that day, I doubt water/moisture got in there, certainly not impossible. I did wait 24 hours or so before charging/seating.

One other thing was that it was the first round I tried; the loose powder fouled the chamber, obviously, so I didn't try any others. It was possible it was the only bad round, but very possibly not. Right now I'm leaning towards bad powder or moisture making it in there. I've got 40+ ready cases on hand, I think I'll try Varget or another powder that I've used heavily and try to eliminate that next.

Out of the hundreds of rounds I've made across the various calibers, this is the first one I've had any failure on.

 

[NavelOfficer]

Sounds like bad powder, assuming it's never been used in any of your other successful reloads. Try those other powders, follow proper procedures and see what happens. It should work. Reloading 8mm is nothing unique compared to .303 British, .30-06 and others.
You do want .323" diameter bullets (although Remington's mic at .322" most of the time), not .32 Win. Special bullets (.321", even though they would still function).
Has anyone been watering plants above your reload bench? Get them away from your reload bench!

 

[mac1911]

I assumed they were clear since I used a primer pocket cleaning tool after sizing and before priming. Always possible.

It's a new to me powder, but yes, I would have assumed I'd notice. I'm not 100% there was a clump, when I clear the case some of the loose powder fell out and I thought I saw a lump, couldn't really tell on the ground since it was wet/muddy.

I manually weigh each on a small scale and fill using a funnel. New powder, opened by me.

I did open the tumbler outside under an awning (trying to not spread any dust in the basement) and it was drizzling that day, I doubt water/moisture got in there, certainly not impossible. I did wait 24 hours or so before charging/seating.

One other thing was that it was the first round I tried; the loose powder fouled the chamber, obviously, so I didn't try any others. It was possible it was the only bad round, but very possibly not. Right now I'm leaning towards bad powder or moisture making it in there. I've got 40+ ready cases on hand, I think I'll try Varget or another powder that I've used heavily and try to eliminate that next.

Out of the hundreds of rounds I've made across the various calibers, this is the first one I've had any failure on.

I cant say ball powder sucks....but it has given more problems than extruded,
Only place I use ball is 355 and W846 in 223 only because it was cheap!
Is there any chance you some how got large pistol primes mixed in. LP primers are shorter and can really be a problem with light strikes.?

Time for a reset:
clean and check everything

I use 200 grain nosler CC 43 grains of varget.
I also use H4895 for some shoulder saving reduced loads

incomplete burned powder can look all clumped and sometimes like clumps of glass.

 

[daekken]

Sounds like bad powder, assuming it's never been used in any of your other successful reloads. Try those other powders, follow proper procedures and see what happens. It should work. Reloading 8mm is nothing unique compared to .303 British, .30-06 and others.
You do want .323" diameter bullets (although Remington's mic at .322" most of the time), not .32 Win. Special bullets (.321", even though they would still function).
Has anyone been watering plants above your reload bench? Get them away from your reload bench!

I cant say ball powder sucks....but it has given more problems than extruded,
Only place I use ball is 355 and W846 in 223 only because it was cheap!
Is there any chance you some how got large pistol primes mixed in. LP primers are shorter and can really be a problem with light strikes.?

Time for a reset:
clean and check everything

I use 200 grain nosler CC 43 grains of varget.
I also use H4895 for some shoulder saving reduced loads

incomplete burned powder can look all clumped and sometimes like clumps of glass.

I'm thinking 44gr of Varget.
Based on mac's last statement, maybe the powder didn't burn all the way.
I'll start with the last factory cases I fired, tumble them today, and see how it goes.

 

[mac1911]

just another shout out.
did you decap with out sizing, My friend does this all to often. He gets ahaead of himself and sometimes forgts to run his decapped brass through the sizer, he then wonders why the bullets seat so easy and sometimes the bullets fall out.

 

[Mountain]

Since you mentioned a wet day...

If your powder was cold and dry then left open in a much warmer and humid environment, it can collect moisture. I have to bitch at the kids for leaving the garage door open during warm, wet days that were preceded by very cold days. My tools will collect condensation.

 

[daekken]

just another shout out.
did you decap with out sizing, My friend does this all to often. He gets ahaead of himself and sometimes forgts to run his decapped brass through the sizer, he then wonders why the bullets seat so easy and sometimes the bullets fall out.

I don't have a dedicated decapper.

I have the brass from the factory rounds I started with yesterday, I'll tumble it and start fresh with Varget, and see how it goes.

 

[gerrycaruso]

Was the primer standard or magnum? I've had that problem when I used a standard primer instead of a magnum primer.

 

[daekken]

Was the primer standard or magnum? I've had that problem when I used a standard primer instead of a magnum primer.

Standard CCI # 200 large rifle primer, about halfway through a pack of 1000.

Last night I tumbler, sized, cleaned primer pocket and verified I could see through the flash hole, tumbled again, and rechecked the flash hole, to be extra thorough. I'll use Varget and the same 198gr projectiles and see how it goes. If they succeed, I'll try the remaining 19 from the first box of 20 and see if it's all of them, or just that first one.

 

[mac1911]

Standard CCI # 200 large rifle primer, about halfway through a pack of 1000.

Last night I tumbler, sized, cleaned primer pocket and verified I could see through the flash hole, tumbled again, and rechecked the flash hole, to be extra thorough. I'll use Varget and the same 198gr projectiles and see how it goes. If they succeed, I'll try the remaining 19 from the first box of 20 and see if it's all of them, or just that first one.

Pull a few from the problem batch and inspect tbe powder?
Maybe for what ever reason your cases had something in them to contaminate the powder

 

[gerrycaruso]

I did a little reading on 2520 and found that some sources call for a standard primer and some call for a magnum primer.

 

[akma]

I know you are using 198gr. CFE223 works well for 180 gr.

 

[daekken]

Last night I did up ten test loads using the twice tumbled cases and 44.2gr Varget, from a jug I've used many times. We'll see how it goes next week.

I know you are using 198gr. CFE223 works well for 180 gr.

Interesting, I have some CFE223, only ever used it on .223.

 

[akma]

It's rated for 125gr. to 180gr.

BULLET WEIGHT180 GR. NOS BT
Starting Loads 49.0 Grs. Pressure 42,100 CUP Vel. (ft/s) 2,635
Maximum Loads 52.0 Grs. Pressure 47,500 CUP Vel. (ft/s) 2,758
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder CFE 223
Bullet Diam. .323"
C.O.L. 3.020"

Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading

 

[mac1911]

It's rated for 125gr. to 180gr.

BULLET WEIGHT180 GR. NOS BT
Starting Loads 49.0 Grs. Pressure 42,100 CUP Vel. (ft/s) 2,635
Maximum Loads 52.0 Grs. Pressure 47,500 CUP Vel. (ft/s) 2,758
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder CFE 223
Bullet Diam. .323"
C.O.L. 3.020"

Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading

Those are pretty stout loads. It takes a good amount of powder also even with min charge weights. For 8mm in a old mauser punching holes inside 200 yards does not need much.
I have a pound of CF223 to try on some 223 for my "varmint"

 

[akma]

FWIW I did 20 at the minimum and the primers had no sign of any pressure.

 

[mac1911]

FWIW I did 20 at the minimum and the primers had no sign of any pressure.

I’m guessing the pressures will be fine . It’s just a heavy hitting load.
180grain pill pushing 2700fps ...mmpphh

 

[daekken]

Gonna try the Varget rounds tomorrow if it works out. At this rate I might just switch to Varget entirely since there seems to be a load for everything I shoot.

 

[mac1911]

Gonna try the Varget rounds tomorrow if it works out. At this rate I must just switch to Varget entirely since there seems to be a load for everything I shoot.

good old H4895 also. many uses and does well with reduced loads to add to the mix.

 

[daekken]

So, mystery solved (mostly), I'd say.
The ten Varget rounds all fired flawlessly and 10/10 hits on the steel plates at 100yds.
Swapped over to the troublesome reloads. I had 19 left of the original 20 (first round overall last trip had the misfire).
No problems for next 12 of them. Then a hangfire (bang/bang, not a long wait, but noticeable). The remaining were all fine, up until the very last round, then the same problem of the first round last time: click, nothing, loose powder.

This time, definite clumping/discoloration in the powder. Looks like some mustard colored particles and clumps mixed in.


So, on the plus side I want to blame the powder since all of the Varget rounds were completely fine.

On the negative side, I wonder how the powder got messed up, and whether it was:
a.) Moisture that somehow got in when I was taking the cases out of the tumbler (or at some other point)
b.) A problem with the powder in terms of detonation - either the CCI # 200 primers are insufficient, not ideal for this case, or something
c.) A problem with the jug of powder as a whole--but it definitely didn't look like this going into the case

I'm leaning towards a. What I think I'll do is set aside a few cases for this powder over the next couple of range trips and see what happens. If, over the course of a few trips these rounds all work, I think I'll treat this as a one-off and move on. Otherwise, I'll know to eschew this powder in the future.