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80% lower machining dilemma..

Stryker said:
What would a good entry milling machine cost to do things like this? Are there desktop models that would do well?
Click to expand...
$1k for the machine
$1k for the tooling (vice, micrometers, calipers, cutting tools, tool holders, etc)

Same problem as with guns - buy once, cry once leads to can't afford.
If you can get your hands on an old knee mill at auction - jump fast as it will serve any purpose a home guy could dream of.
Otherwise, the Seig X2 or X3 is a great entry point - no, they are production shop quality or power but they will get the job done if used within their capacity.

For comparison - the pocket volume is about 2.6 cubic inches and aluminum requires about 0.25-0.35 HP/CI/minute so a 1/2 HP machine with no loss of movement could machine the pocket in under two minutes.
 
Last edited:
pastera said:
$1k for the machine
$1k for the tooling (vice, micrometers, calipers, cutting tools, tool holders, etc)
Click to expand...

From my search last year, $1k might get you an used mill (unknown condition). ~$1k for a new mill won't get you much beyond mini-mill size. If you don't mind taking 2-3x (or more) to do things, that would work. I don't like to have that much of a time delta when spending a bit more would do the job significantly faster.

I would advise getting a dovetail column mill no matter what. Well, unless you end up with a knee mill. I've yet to see an used knee mill (on CL) for less than $1500. You could be looking at spending that much again before you're done reconditioning it. Unless it's in solid shape already (as in gone through not that many run hours before you get it).
 
Golddiggie said:
From my search last year, $1k might get you an used mill (unknown condition). ~$1k for a new mill won't get you much beyond mini-mill size. If you don't mind taking 2-3x (or more) to do things, that would work. I don't like to have that much of a time delta when spending a bit more would do the job significantly faster.

I would advise getting a dovetail column mill no matter what. Well, unless you end up with a knee mill. I've yet to see an used knee mill (on CL) for less than $1500. You could be looking at spending that much again before you're done reconditioning it. Unless it's in solid shape already (as in gone through not that many run hours before you get it).
Click to expand...
My first draft answer was to his immediate question - an entry level mill not the 'buy once, cry once' option. I updated my response to include some relevant info

I have an X1 mill - look it up.
Can it finish an 80% lower? Absolutely.
Can it do it in a production environment? Not a chance.

The key factor is that I don't operate a job shop and when I bought the mill that was my budget factoring in tooling.

This isn't a jab at you, @Golddiggie, but more of a push back on the "buy once" culture that keeps people out of hobbies by pricing them out.
I started road cycling about a year ago - If I listened to the experienced riders I never would have started because the cheapest startup cost recommended was several thousand. I bought a 20 year old bike and a cheap helmet to start and lost 30+ pounds (Doc said get in shape or bad shit with the ticker was going to happen).
Sometimes good enough is good enough.
 
Enough:
www.grizzly.com

4" x 16" Mini Milling Machine

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www.harborfreight.com

2 Speed Benchtop Mill/Drill Machine

Amazing deals on this 2 Speed Benchtop Milling/Drilling Machine at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
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Better:
www.grizzly.com

4" x 18" 3/4 HP Mill/Drill

<h1>G0781 4" x 18" 3/4 HP Mill / Drill</h1> <h2>An inexpensive, high-quality, and small bench top mill.</h2> <p>The combination of features on the G0781 4" x 18" 3/4 HP Mill / Drill makes quick work of whatever job is thrown at it.</p> <p>This powerhouse comes equipped with a high-torque 3/4 HP...
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Sieg X3 Mill – Mini-lathe.com

www.mini-lathe.com

Tooling:
littlemachineshop.com

Mill Tooling Package | Mini Mill Tooling | LittleMachineShop

This mill tooling package comes with all the essentials for an R8 mini mill. This package includes collets, center drills, and more. Order online today.
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Calipers, micrometers, bore gauges, edge finder, etc...

For best:

Mini Mills

Haas Mini Mill 40-taper vertical machining centers
www.haascnc.com www.haascnc.com
 
The HF mini mill is a good entry level machine and the minimum for AR-15, AR-10, 1911, AK barrel populating and the likes without being CNC'd. Way better than thinking you can use a drill press to do all those. Good luck with that. It can do a lot of stuff but bigger is better if you can. They have gone up considerably since I purchased mine but relatively still a good value. Grizzly is the same product but has different packaging and a couple of other do dads. The HF is bare bones so if you plan to do upgrades it's the one to go with. These can be turned into CNC check YouTube to see what can be done and what they are capable of. It's impressive. Do your research to see what will suit your needs.
 
It’s hard to top the info you got from these guys Stryker. All I will say is this, I’m the type of person who gets sucked into projects so I always want the best I can afford. I have a lot of metalworking, welding tools and equipment. The older stuff is just simply better built, beefy, heavy etc... now I’m not saying new stuff isn’t as good by any means. But dollar for dollar I’ll personally take an old piece of equipment in most cases.

If you end up with a 3 phase motor and need to convert to single phase, get a VFD (variable frequency drive). I did one on my lather with and RPM counter and I love it. Even better is the RPM display has a SFM display, so if you enter your tool or material diameter it calculates it. Absolutely love it. I’ll admit it was a learning curve to install and program it, which led me down another rabbit hole of control switches for industrial equipment.
 
I paid $500 on Craigslist for my Enco knee mill. Keep a watch. Deals happen and in the current environment there will be a LOT of used machinery coming into the market place and garages being fire saled to pay bills. If you have cash now you should be able to find a sub $1k mill easily in the next 60 days.

On the OP original point, I have a lower thats off .030 to one side from teaching my son and letting him learn. It functions 100%.
 
the bigger the machinery, the lower price it is. Tabletops and minimills are way overpriced for what they are. You can literally buy a huge machine with 3ph huge motor for less money.

The reason is simple, not too many people have space or 3ph or desire nor commitment to move something that weights few tons. Unless it's a modern machinery, most shops won't care for it and an average hobby type will go for something less.

For 2k you can get 3hp mill with DROs and powerfeeds from a machinist who took care of it. This is what I've seen last year. I see tabletops for 1-1.5k that can't even compare with rigidity.

Aluminum isn't that demanding, but if you want to step up and get those Gory receivers machined out of steel, that's what you need.
 
akma said:
The HF mini mill is a good entry level machine and the minimum for AR-15, AR-10, 1911, AK barrel populating and the likes without being CNC'd. Way better than thinking you can use a drill press to do all those. Good luck with that. It can do a lot of stuff but bigger is better if you can. They have gone up considerably since I purchased mine but relatively still a good value. Grizzly is the same product but has different packaging and a couple of other do dads. The HF is bare bones so if you plan to do upgrades it's the one to go with. These can be turned into CNC check YouTube to see what can be done and what they are capable of. It's impressive. Do your research to see what will suit your needs.
Click to expand...
This is what I did. Got the HF mini mill about 6yrs ago with a coupon. Bought steppers, driver/controller, and PS off eBay. Milled up all my mounts and installed motors. I use Mach3 on a cheap refurb PC I go from Walmart.com. Worked great milling my lower. Not super fast, but it works.
 
If your not looking to get into machining in general and just want to do lowers. This is a great option. It has my wheels turning my self...

Ghost Gunner 3-S Deposit - Ghost Gunner

Current lead time for Ghost Gunner 3-S is Q2 2024. GG3-S allows you to perform common firearms machining operations with confidence and ease, in the privacy of your own home. GG3-S removes material 5 times faster than GG2 and the new unibody construction provides greater rigidity, drastically...
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Takdashark said:
If your not looking to get into machining in general and just want to do lowers. This is a great option. It has my wheels turning my self...

Ghost Gunner 3-S Deposit - Ghost Gunner

Current lead time for Ghost Gunner 3-S is Q2 2024. GG3-S allows you to perform common firearms machining operations with confidence and ease, in the privacy of your own home. GG3-S removes material 5 times faster than GG2 and the new unibody construction provides greater rigidity, drastically...
ghostgunner.net ghostgunner.net
Click to expand...

Note that you can also engrave ar lowers with a ghost gunner. There's an active community developing gcode.
 
84ta406 said:
$2100 is kind of steep for a machine to do just that unless you could rent the machine out
Click to expand...

small fee to pay for Accidental Boaters Anonymous, there are a lot of people who don't like giving the man information and judging from the demand on these, market is pretty good.
 
It is and it isn’t. If all you plan to do is gun stuff, and you factor in getting a mill, then tooling it, and the time it takes to learn how to use it, and do the actual machining. It’s not so bad.

Remember, this will mill out a lower from a piece of stock, you could do some seriously cool custom stuff with it if you learned how to use the modeling program.
Never mind Glock, 1911 frames, slides etc....
 
84ta406 said:
$2100 is kind of steep for a machine to do just that unless you could rent the machine out
Click to expand...

Yeah - and -no.

It's definitely not cheap.
If all you want to do is mill out 80%, AR-15's and maybe do an 80% 1911 or two - and you don't want a mill for anything else - and your finances allow it - then it's a viable option.

Not everyone can create an AK from a Shovel, or make a sand mold and melt legos into it; but some of those who can't - still want a properly milled out lower - and ghost gunner meets that market.

I've got a small milling machine, (not CNC), and the 80% jig. I can tell you from personal experience that the Ghost Gunner does a cleaner job than I do with my mill. I'm not a machinist - I can spin wrenches on my bike, and I can write production quality software - but I'm a bit of a hack with the mill.
 
@akma
So from what i have seen the 80% arms jig does the same as what the OP has seen. One side being thinner than the other. Kinda lame, i would have liked to see equal sides as well. But it is much cheaper than a full mill. And you only need a router
 
Queen Bee said:
@akma
So from what i have seen the 80% arms jig does the same as what the OP has seen. One side being thinner than the other. Kinda lame, i would have liked to see equal sides as well. But it is much cheaper than a full mill. And you only need a router
Click to expand...
Is it really worth it to get a Mill. Its easier to get a perfect job done, but attention to detail on a jig, goes a long way.
 
@71montess no i do not think you need to get a huge mill. The quality of the trigger pocket is really finished well with the jig. I just do not like how one side ends up thinner than the other. I think i would try and have someone make a little wedge add on piece to make the other side the same thickness, if i were ever going to mill out an 80%
 

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