Non-Standard licensing requirements -> Non-Statutory licensing requirements

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UPDATE 2022: This is no longer valid information. Leaving it up as a record detailing the crap we went through so future generations know what happened and who did it.

After cooling down from reading this post, I wanted to see if others have run across similar "requests" by their towns as this one in Marblehead. In short, the request is,
The only "requirements" he has for issuing for concealed carry is that he expects any firearm carried to remain concealed and immediate notification to any LEOs when stopped if you are carrying. He mentioned that he knows that GOAL and some other organizations may disagree with that practice but considering how painless the process was I don't personally find it to be very much to ask.

I am only looking for things like the bolded part (the concealed part is likely common). Has anyone else had to trade their 4th and 5th amendment rights for their 2nd amendment rights? Any other "requirements" towns have laid out in quid pro quo for your right to bear arms? What town and what have you had to trade for the privilege of RKBA?

I know this is a requirement in other states (SC comes to mind) but I also believe that as a result, the information can not be used as justification for anything other than verifying the validity of the license. It should be the same here but we have all heard folks here get removed from their car as a result of notification without such protections.

ETA: I am not looking to make this a pissing contest about whether one should or should not make said disclosure. If you want to disclose, go right ahead and vice versa. What I am looking to focus on is what odd ball and/or unconstitutional requirements are being placed on folks as a condition for the license. I would love it if this can be a thread with a list of these such things we can refer back to in the future.

Running Tally:
  • First amendment (Swampscott will issue, just don't ask questions on the internet or expect the license to come in the proscribed time as mandated by law...)
  • Concealed Means Concealed (multiple)
  • Reference Letters (multiple)
  • Reference Letters - Notarized (Attleboro)
    • references cannot be parents or relatives (Springfield, Watertown, Worcester, Easton, Boylston, Weymouth, Fall River, Lunenburg, Braintree, Holden)
    • letters of recommendation which must specifically state that they are written for the purpose of application for LTC. (Reading, Watertown, Billerica)
    • Requires anyone not living alone to have everyone in their household complete and sign an "Affidavit of Co-Habitation" (Chelsea)
    • references cannot be from out of state (Worcester)
    • 3 Letters of reference (Weymouth, Woburn, Revere)
    • 2 Letters of reference (Chelmsford, Fall River)
    • 5 Letters of reference (Braintree)
    • Letters of reference need to be notarized (Fitchburg)
    • Employer Contact information -- May have been a requirement for unrestricted (medford)
    • Reference from spouse to confirm that s/he would be comfortable with a firearm in the household. (Waltham)
    • Reference letter from employer to make sure you aren't gonna go "postal." (Waltham)
    • Reference letter from someone with an LTC. (Waltham)
    • Reference letter from your last PD if you have moved in between renewals (Newton)
  • Force optional information to be required (Social Security Number in Springfield)
  • Sign a copy of the "Acknowledgment of the limits on the use of deadly force" (Walpole, Watertown, Bolton, Easton, Arlington, Somerville)
  • Gun Club Membership (Watertown, Randolph, Brookline, Braintree)
  • Proof of citizenship - taken to include birth certificate, naturalization certificate or passport (Watertown, lowell, Fall River)
  • Proof of citizenship can't be a passport in lowell [rolleyes]
    • Submit Birth Certificate (Walpole and New Bedford: first timers)
  • Proof of residency in said town - taken to include drivers license, utility bill, etc (Watertown, Saugus, Marblehead, Walpole, lynn, Easton, Ashburnham)
  • Letters to the Chief (Multiple)
    • Letter to chief explaining why one wants a firearms license with justifications (Watertown, fall river, Waltham, Walpole, New Bedford, Westport, medford, Newton, fitchburg)
  • Firearms Safety Courses/Practical Exams:
    • Special Application in addition to the standard CHRB version. In duplicate. (Newton)
    • Firearms safety course for all renewals (Watertown, Holden, Manchester-By-The-Sea)
    • Applicant to take (and pass) a test on Mass gun laws (Ayer, Revere)
    • Applicant to take (and pass) a shooting test (Boston)
    • Applicant to take (and pass) a personal interview and pop quiz. The questions of which are unknown in advance. (Newton, Revere)
    • Applicant required to take concealed carry course for ALP (Winchendon)
    • license type based on the safety course taken. (ie; FID for hunters safety course, restricted for those that take a home defense course)
    • Take the safety course from a local active LEO (cash paid to leo...) in order to get unrestricted (Medford)
    • Take a PD approved safety course (above and beyond the statutory requirement) (Sherborn)
  • Forced disclosure on interaction with LE (Marblehead, Springfield)
  • Letter from a physician (Both N. Andover and Andover had previously required this for FIDs, Sharon refuses without it, lawrence may as well)
  • Run around town proving you don't owe back taxes, fees, etc and proving a negative in order to apply for a neutered A or B license. - (Rowley)
  • Employer contact info (New Bedford)
  • Drivers License number (New Bedford)
  • Parent's names (including mother's maiden name) (New Bedford)

ETA: I am keeping a running total/tally of all of these things. I also changed the thread title to reflect a more accurate description of what the thread is about.

I am also sourcing things from this thread
 
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Actually, I just remembered one I experienced in the past. Watertown requires you to keep a gun club membership and shoot regularly.
 
So, um, what happens if someone who isn't from Marblehead gets pulled over and doesn't immediately disclose?
 
The one thing I see/hear about pretty often in Central MA is reference letters are required for new applicants. I could be wrong, but this is not specified in the law. People just bend over and take it though because a lot of the towns that ask for these (like Leominster) are otherwise pretty green towns. Fitchburg does too, but it remains to be seen what is going to happen there due to the BS with this new chief.


-Mike
 
The reference letters don't bother me too much in Shrewsbury. I know they aren't a state requirement, but since the Chief is the one with all the power, 2 letters stating I am not a known nutjob isn't a terribly big deal to me. Especially since the Chief isn't contacting people and doing background checks or anything. I know I am getting a ALP LTC-A, so having 2 people write a few sentences seems pretty reasonable.

Stuff like quizzes or certain memberships wouldn't sit well with me. Some form of test that might have questions that could have answers which could be argued or something that is going to cost in addition to the application aren't ok to me.
 
The reference letters don't bother me too much in Shrewsbury. I know they aren't a state requirement, but since the Chief is the one with all the power, 2 letters stating I am not a known nutjob isn't a terribly big deal to me. Especially since the Chief isn't contacting people and doing background checks or anything. I know I am getting a ALP LTC-A, so having 2 people write a few sentences seems pretty reasonable.

Stuff like quizzes or certain memberships wouldn't sit well with me. Some form of test that might have questions that could have answers which could be argued or something that is going to cost in addition to the application aren't ok to me.

I used to think so too, until I moved to NH and realized what freedom means.
 
I used to think so too, until I moved to NH and realized what freedom means.

Letters of reference is so far down the list of what is wrong with the process, I can't even remember the page number. [rofl]

Higher up to me are the vastly different application processes per town and the whole "Chief = ultimate power" thing. [wink]
 
Another one I thought of. In person/dictated applications. They obviously don't preclude written applications but the onus is on the applicant to make sure the dictated one matches the one that he/she brought with them.
 
Another one I thought of. In person/dictated applications. They obviously don't preclude written applications but the onus is on the applicant to make sure the dictated one matches the one that he/she brought with them.

This is the way that most PD's are doing it now. You make an appointment for an interview, and the interviewer fills out the application online. My local PD (Groton) switched about 2 years ago.

Also, it's "Ayer" with no s.
 
This is the way that most PD's are doing it now. You make an appointment for an interview, and the interviewer fills out the application online. My local PD (Groton) switched about 2 years ago.

Also, it's "Ayer" with no s.

Ayer fixed. Yes, I realize this is popular if not universal at this point. It makes it much easier for them from a purely administrative perspective because it eliminates the rank data entry nature of copying what is on the written app and it allows them to probe the applicant for more information on various questions when needed. None of that is inherently evil.

What is potentially bad is when what the individual says is somehow modified and that person doesn't catch it. When I did one in Watertown, one of my answers was not recorded like I stated it. She "short handed". That short hand changed the meaning and I had to get her to adjust it after the fact. Anyhow, the process has criminal implications, though I have never heard of anyone bitten by those implications. I removed it. I wasn't adhering to my own standards with that one.
 
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WOW after reading this I am glad I live in Westfield. All I had to do was sit there for 10 minutes while the department secretary put all my information into the computer while she didn't ask me a single question about why I wanted an ALP LTC. Then I got my LTC-A unrestricted 6 weeks later and I was good to go.
 
So, um, what happens if someone who isn't from Marblehead gets pulled over and doesn't immediately disclose?

I suddenly have this burning temptation to find a way to commute daily through Marblehead and not disclose. [laugh]

I used to think so too, until I moved to NH and realized what freedom means.

A big fat +1.

Letters of reference is so far down the list of what is wrong with the process, I can't even remember the page number. [rofl]

Higher up to me are the vastly different application processes per town and the whole "Chief = ultimate power" thing. [wink]

Every single step is unpleasant and wrong.

WOW after reading this I am glad I live in Westfield. All I had to do was sit there for 10 minutes while the department secretary put all my information into the computer while she didn't ask me a single question about why I wanted an ALP LTC. Then I got my LTC-A unrestricted 6 weeks later and I was good to go.

After spending almost all of my life in Mass., I now live in Florida, where I can literally trade a handgun like a pack of cigarettes to anyone over the age of 18. If I so choose, I can drive to the local police department and refer to the chief as Mr. F*ckface and he has no say whatsoever in my RKBA. The system down here isn't perfect (in my eyes), but looking back now it's infuriating to see how Mass. gun owners are humiliated and crapped on by the state's gun laws, even in a green town.

Here's a neat little example of why I much prefer my current gun laws to those in Mass.

In the past couple of weeks, a serial rapist has been running around my area, sitting outside of homes for hours watching to make sure that a female is home alone, then breaking in to do his evil deeds. My friend's fiancee lives right in this prowler's area of operation, and obviously she's a little worried about her safety.

In Mass., if we were in the exact same situation with a rapist on the loose and a scared 20-something female, my friend's fiancee would have to find and schedule a firearms safety course (outside of NES this is quite hard to do, I know from experience). After paying $25-150 for the course, she would have to gather all her info for the LTC packet, plus whatever other unholy stuff the chief wants along with the application (birth certificate, picture of the applicant in a bunny suit, etc.), then schedule an appointment for the "LTC interview." A week or two later (or a month or two, depending on the chief's schedule), she'd have to pay another $100 to apply for the LTC. Six weeks later, if her chief didn't decide to make her wait an extra few weeks or months since she's a "1st time gun owner," she'd have an LTC in hand, which would allow her to take on the great responsibility of having a firearm in her house.

Want to know what the process was here in Florida for me and my friend's fiancee a few days ago?

I handed her a pistol, plus 3 spare post-ban high cap mags, and I told her "It's loaded."

I know her record's clean, and I've shot with her, so I know she can hold her own. Even if she'd never shot a gun before, this clerk proved that experience isn't necessary to defend yourself with a powerful handgun, but I digress.

In Mass., if I did this we'd be committing multiple felonies. Or if we lived in Mass. and decided to go the legal route, while she waited the 1-2 months minimum to get her rights permission slip from the local government official, she'd get to sleep in her bed alone at night without so much as a can of pepper spray in the house to defend herself with.

Even in one of those wonderful "green towns" we hear people on here regularly gloating about, my friend's fiancee would at the very least be in fear for a few months, and at the very worst, become the victim of an hours long rape/murder ordeal.

Sbh87, I'm not picking on you here, I'm just pointing out that human rights are human rights, and that they shall not be infringed.

End outrage. [wink]
 
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After cooling down from reading this post, I wanted to see if others have run across similar "requests" by their towns as this one in Marblehead. In short, the request is,

My NRA Basic Safety course was taught by a retired LEO and he said you should tell an officer you are carrying if you are pulled over.

Constitutional arguments aside and considering I would not be an officer if I could make $150k with overtime, there is a common sense safety issue from the point of view of an officer and traffic stops.

If he or she asks for your drivers license then also hand them your permit.

As they always say in the S&W CCW forum (and I have probably read it in a Ayoob book too), to not do so and be asked to step out of your car and then be found carrying will certainly get you face down on the pavement.

I do not want my 15 minutes of fame to be on one of those 'cops' shows.

Bill
 
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Sbh87, I'm not picking on you here, I'm just pointing out that human rights are human rights, and that they shall not be infringed.

End outrage. [wink]

No offense taken. I am basically stating that I live in the best of the worst which is still in no way compared to how good it is in almost every other state.
 
I have looked at things from another perspective for many years.

In the way back machine (1982) I had to be a member of a club to get a permit. That simple. Join a club for a safe place to shoot. Westford did not want people shooting in the sand pits. Sounded reasonable to me. When I moved to our present town almost 20 years ago the chief wanted 3 letters of reference. No problem and I complied. I've never been asked again to update these. BTW non resident ME asks for 3 people don't they as well as many other items. I suppose that If I had to jump thru hoops all the time I'd get a little PO'd at the BS.

As for telling a LEO you are carrying... I know very few bad or PITA cops. Perhaps I'm lucky living where I do but I know they are out there. IF I'm carrying on my person I have no problem keeping both hands on the wheel and telling said LEO I'm carrying and where to let him call the shots. I'd do so out of respect. The guns legal, I'm legal, and that's all there is to it. If he has a problem he could call my issuing town and cry about it but so what? He's the one with the problem! If it's in the case like my target gun going to a match I might not be so inclined to say anything as it's locked and not loaded. We were stopped in a road block by the Maine Warden Service up by Moosehead Lake returning to Mass and was asked if there were firearms in the truck. I replied "yes, properly licensed". He stepped back and waved me thru.
 
Lunenburg required me to provide 3 letters of recommendation. To their credit, the interview with the LO was very laid back and I was able to get a Class A with no restrictions, no questions asked.

My friend lives in Salem, and I'm not sure if letters are required or not, but I know that they would not give him anything better than a Class B, and he has no criminal record of any sort.
 
In reality, whats the big deal with asking someone to maintain active status at a local gun range?

Or for that matter the reference letters?
 
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