7 killed , 3 hurt in motorcycle-truck accident in Randolph NH

Greg

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Not buying it. There are cases on record where blood samples turned out to be cross-contaminated with stomach contents, so there may be a faulty conclusion drawn here. Riding a big Harley with a BAC that high is astounding. And it would be surprising if the other riders hadn't noticed, not to mention let him ride point.
So you are saying a group of guys on Harleys would never get together at a bar, drink and go riding to the next bar ?

Some guys at work do this every weekend..Its a HD lifestyle thing for the mentally challenged or something.

I still dont buy what the defense is trying to sell though.
 

n1oty

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So you are saying a group of guys on Harleys would never get together at a bar, drink and go riding to the next bar ?

Some guys at work do this every weekend..Its a HD lifestyle thing for the mentally challenged or something.

I still dont buy what the defense is trying to sell though.

I find it difficult, though not impossible, to believe that only one rider in the group drank and the others had no alcohol in their system based on the autopsies. If there was drinking involved, there would be a reasonable expectation that others would have some in their system as well, even if in legal amounts.

I'm not buying this info until both sides present evidence on this matter.
 

Roland Deschain

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I can't imagine that the accident recon guys haven't pieced together the accident to be able to determine the validity of this theory. Either there were skid marks and impact evidence at initial point of contact on the TRUCKS side of the road, or there wasn't.
 

Reptile

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If the biker was drunk it could help the truck driver.

If I recall, did the truck driver say that he was distracted by his phone when he crashed?

I thought he said he was.

I could imagine how if the first bike hit the truck tire, it would cause the trailer to wipe out the other bikers.

I hope justice is served and they get to the truth.

It would be a huge dishonor to the memories of the fallen bikers if the bikers were at fault.

Can somebody clarify the police report?

Does it say the biker swerved out of his lane and hit the truck?
 

KBCraig

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I can't imagine that the accident recon guys haven't pieced together the accident to be able to determine the validity of this theory. Either there were skid marks and impact evidence at initial point of contact on the TRUCKS side of the road, or there wasn't.
The truck had been in the ditch on his side of the road before impact.

I saw those marks with my own eyes.
 
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So you are saying a group of guys on Harleys would never get together at a bar, drink and go riding to the next bar ?

Some guys at work do this every weekend..Its a HD lifestyle thing for the mentally challenged or something.

I still dont buy what the defense is trying to sell though.
I've had dealers tell me how awesome this or that harley is for "bar hopping'.

I like some things about harleys, i've had 2. but HD is peak a**h*** culture.
 

namedpipes

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So you are saying a group of guys on Harleys would never get together at a bar, drink and go riding to the next bar ?

Some guys at work do this every weekend..Its a HD lifestyle thing for the mentally challenged or something.

I still dont buy what the defense is trying to sell though.
That club isn't the demographic you're describing. Not to say there aren't drinkers and maybe even the one guy was a hardcore alcoholic. Maybe. Or something else happened. Good defense lawyers are EXCELLENT at seeding doubt.

They weren't leaving a bar. They were leaving their motel heading to their annual meeting. (And I sure some would have been drinking later that night)
 
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Defense Attorneys can find an ‘expert’ to say anything. Attorneys LIE, seen it - lived it.
They sure can. You know who else does the same thing? The prosecution. And they do it much worse.

The defense's goal is and should be to defend the defendant. By contrast, the prosecutions goal should be to seek justice and get to the truth. Yet what they do is instead find any ways to convict whoever it is they are charging regardless of whether or not they are guilty. And it doesn't matter if when they started off they genuinely believed that person was guilty and then learned they were wrong. Because that makes them look bad. So they don't like to reverse course. So instead they lie.


He also wasn't arrested the day of the crash. So there must not have been obvious evidence he was at fault, and may even have been evidence he wasn't. If the one biker had a .135 BAC, maybe the real story is a fair bit different than what we've come to believe.
 

Rat187

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The defense's goal is and should be to defend the defendant. By contrast, the prosecutions goal should be to seek justice and get to the truth. Yet what they do is instead find any ways to convict whoever it is they are charging regardless of whether or not they are guilty. And it doesn't matter if when they started off they genuinely believed that person was guilty and then learned they were wrong. Because that makes them look bad. So they don't like to reverse course. So instead they lie.
^^^ What he said !
 

Boris

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It's the defense attorney's job to do anything possible to get his client off.

Where did the independent report come from meaning who ordered it? Why are their facts so different than the NHSP?
The report goes on to say that “the impact caused catastrophic air loss to the left front tire of the truck, which left a tire mark on the center line of the road," Duguay says in his motion. "This tire mark had initially been attributed to an ‘unsuccessful avoidance maneuver' by Mr. Mazza, a position that the State has since retracted."
It's not just the results by reconstruction firm, State also changed its findings.


Frankly, I've seen plenty of bikes and cars edge over the center line anticipating a good time to turn, clutch off, sometimes you forget to pull the break in and you are rolling, waiting for the cars to pass so you can make the turn. Very plausible.
 

Asaltweapon

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It's not just the results by reconstruction firm, State also changed its findings.


Frankly, I've seen plenty of bikes and cars edge over the center line anticipating a good time to turn, clutch off, sometimes you forget to pull the break in and you are rolling, waiting for the cars to pass so you can make the turn. Very plausible.
I’ll never suspect the history of the drivers license of a good driver.
Let me know when you have the capability to run mine.

The driver of the baby truck was a POS. FACT!
I’ll not let some POS mouthpiece public defender and his like minded background antics change my mind.
I’ll wait. Nobody is that drunk on two wheels.
 

jpk

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That club isn't the demographic you're describing. Not to say there aren't drinkers and maybe even the one guy was a hardcore alcoholic. Maybe. Or something else happened. Good defense lawyers are EXCELLENT at seeding doubt.

They weren't leaving a bar. They were leaving their motel heading to their annual meeting. (And I sure some would have been drinking later that night)
Actually they were heading to an event at American Legion post up the road......definately never any alcohol served at AL posts......:rolleyes:
 

KBCraig

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Frankly, I've seen plenty of bikes and cars edge over the center line anticipating a good time to turn, clutch off, sometimes you forget to pull the break in and you are rolling, waiting for the cars to pass so you can make the turn. Very plausible.
For the facts of this case, that's not even remotely plausible.

The bikes had just gotten on the road, and there was nowhere for them to turn left. The truck couldn't have take the next left if he'd wanted to (he wouldn't, since it's a dirt road to nowhere), while traveling at that speed.
 

namedpipes

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Actually they were heading to an event at American Legion post up the road......definately never any alcohol served at AL posts......:rolleyes:
Ok. I assumed drinking would be involved later, but it certainly had not started at the time of the incident. The event was their annual club meet, I believe. Point was, this wasn't a band of Hell's Angels. They were a mixed group people whose connector was USMC and motorcycles. They weren't even all on Harley's.
 

Greg

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Ok. I assumed drinking would be involved later, but it certainly had not started at the time of the incident. The event was their annual club meet, I believe. Point was, this wasn't a band of Hell's Angels. They were a mixed group people whose connector was USMC and motorcycles. They weren't even all on Harley's.
Im not a lawyer, but is it legal to say that one of the guys had a BAC over the limit if it never happened like you say ?
 
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Im not a lawyer, but is it legal to say that one of the guys had a BAC over the limit if it never happened like you say ?
In a court of law, it has to be proven, so no. In the court of public opinion, it becomes a civil court matter of defamation. I'm guessing that if the assertion is not proven in criminal court, the family of the defamed individual could sue the lawyer for defamation, and IMNSHO should win beaucoup bucks.
 

number9

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In a court of law, it has to be proven, so no. In the court of public opinion, it becomes a civil court matter of defamation. I'm guessing that if the assertion is not proven in criminal court, the family of the defamed individual could sue the lawyer for defamation, and IMNSHO should win beaucoup bucks.
If it's in the autopsy report, it'll be pretty easy to prove in court.
 

jct61765

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They sure can. You know who else does the same thing? The prosecution. And they do it much worse.

The defense's goal is and should be to defend the defendant. By contrast, the prosecutions goal should be to seek justice and get to the truth. Yet what they do is instead find any ways to convict whoever it is they are charging regardless of whether or not they are guilty. And it doesn't matter if when they started off they genuinely believed that person was guilty and then learned they were wrong. Because that makes them look bad. So they don't like to reverse course. So instead they lie.


He also wasn't arrested the day of the crash. So there must not have been obvious evidence he was at fault, and may even have been evidence he wasn't. If the one biker had a .135 BAC, maybe the real story is a fair bit different than what we've come to believe.
And the prosecution has unlimited resources.
 
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Ok. I assumed drinking would be involved later, but it certainly had not started at the time of the incident. The event was their annual club meet, I believe. Point was, this wasn't a band of Hell's Angels. They were a mixed group people whose connector was USMC and motorcycles. They weren't even all on Harley's.
Do you know these individuals?

I'm not trying to impugn the departed, but I have no problem believing they had been drinking that day. I can also believe they got on bikes. This is common behavior for nearly every biker I ever met, even if they were USMC and great citizens. Stupid behavior doesnt discriminate. You dont have to be an outlaw MC to drink and ride.

If you do know them, I am sorry for the loss. And no disrespect meant. But its seems possible, even logical, there was alcohol involved on the bikers part. Also, not saying that was the cause of the tragedy, but a definite possibility.
 

number9

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Do you know these individuals?

I'm not trying to impugn the departed, but I have no problem believing they had been drinking that day. I can also believe they got on bikes. This is common behavior for nearly every biker I ever met, even if they were USMC and great citizens. Stupid behavior doesnt discriminate. You dont have to be an outlaw MC to drink and ride.

If you do know them, I am sorry for the loss. And no disrespect meant. But its seems possible, even logical, there was alcohol involved on the bikers part. Also, not saying that was the cause of the tragedy, but a definite possibility.
It isn't possible, or even logical, it is fact. The autopsy report says so.
 

BigTimber

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Deceased individuals can not be defamed.
99% true. However if the case started before the individual died it can continue in some states. This would obviously not apply here. Our laws are very interesting imo. No matter how it shakes out it’s a awful story.
 
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Do you know these individuals?

I'm not trying to impugn the departed, but I have no problem believing they had been drinking that day. I can also believe they got on bikes. This is common behavior for nearly every biker I ever met, even if they were USMC and great citizens. Stupid behavior doesnt discriminate. You dont have to be an outlaw MC to drink and ride.

If you do know them, I am sorry for the loss. And no disrespect meant. But its seems possible, even logical, there was alcohol involved on the bikers part. Also, not saying that was the cause of the tragedy, but a definite possibility.
I was on a group ride about 6 years ago, a ride organized on Meetup. Supposed to be Canton to the Whites and Back. I knew most of the guys from that group, alot of 40-50yo guys with BMWs Ducatis, some race at Loudon. I rode with these guys a bunch and was actually learning watching them. Totally organized, safe rides with 20+ ppl no problem. No wheelies, no unsafe moves, just nice clean carving with some really fast people. I would dive into a corner behind any of these guys and not worry about what happens on the other side.

Today. there was another FB group that joined up, making about 40 of us. Alot of these guys had stunt cages, left hand brakes, ziptie stitches, and they were squidding hard. One guy was even wearing flipflops and a wife beater. They met us at a DD in Canton in the morning and I should have left then. These guys were not only stupid, but jerky and unpredictable. One guy passed me on the right on a highway onramp, probably doing about 100 up the breakdown lane to the front of the group. No warning, just brushes past me before I felt like I was past the apex, dove into my lap almost. Being around them made me tired. I eventually dropped back and took up sweep just to put some space.

We were in the Lincoln NH area at lunch, and they started drinking. I talked to the hostess, got my food packed to go, paid and left. Made up some BS excuse about how I got a work call. I had a beautiful day BY MYSELF on the Kanc. Spent all day thinking about how I like to ride alone better than with a group.

Later found out after I left, one of the squids, this guy with a Kawi 1000 extended swing arm and huge rear tire tried taking his wallet out at the tolls while he was still moving and crashed into the tollbooths. Our group stayed and made sure he got help, his group all scattered before the cops showed up.

That was the last time I did a group ride with more than a few people.
 
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