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7 killed , 3 hurt in motorcycle-truck accident in Randolph NH

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by calsdad, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. jpk

    jpk

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    Shit post all you want but so far just about everything you've contributed in this thread has been exactly that....



    Leisurely group ride to make the 7p raffle at post 82 19 miles away.....and they left at 6:30p......try again

    5-6 bikes involved in the accident were not in close proximity to one another but magically were only 500 feet from the motel they left.....they teach you that new math in high school?

    Victims of Randolph crash remembered; Mass. man arrested

    From your posts today I'd say you've been in the mai tai's all day long......

     

  2. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    Ah.

    And, right on cue, jpk’s ad hominems begin for their evening session.

    This thread is ridiculous now. It’s the same thing repeated over and over again. IBTL.
     
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  3. jpk

    jpk

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    There's more context than you've posted dont you think?

    It doesnt RECOMMEND riding in a group....it says if you DO ride in a group then here are recommendations and MINIMUM following guidelines as well as where experienced and inexperienced riders should be in the group and a bunch of other stuff

    Its not open to dispute that if the 5-6 bikes been separated by larger distances that there would necessarily be fewer bikes involved in the accident
     
  4. jpk

    jpk

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    You said that they were out for a leisurely group ride and the news report shows otherwise

    They were on way to an event @ 7p

    Correction on my part

    Its a 19 minute ride/11 miles not 19 mile ride
     
  5. zboys

    zboys NES Member

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    Wrong, unless your talking 1 bike every telephone pole length.
    You are really making some assnine idiotic comments
     
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  6. jpk

    jpk

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    If each of the 5-6 bikes were following 4-5 seconds between each other then necessarily only 1 possibly 2 would have tangled with the truck because not all of them would have even been out the driveway yet

    There's no way that you or anyone else can argue that proximity to one another was not a factor in the body count....thats just related to 5-6 bikes trying to avoid a truck and doesnt consider whether or not one or more bikes went down/took out other bikes trying to avoid the oncoming truck

    How many people have been to a track school or safety class and watched riders collide with a bike that went down in front of them when they had a clear/obvious path out.....because they were not trained to look for the escape route and instead focus on the hazard.....if you're looking at the hazard expecting to avoid it then you're almost 100% guaranteed to hit it

    NTSB isnt going to let this accident go to waste to push a political/"Safety" agenda.....NH DoS wont either
     
  7. zboys

    zboys NES Member

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    UGH! and your point?
     
  8. meh

    meh NES Member

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    No. The number of bikes involved would have been the same if the separation were only infinitesimally larger. The number of bikes involved would have been reduced only when the spacing increased to cross an unknown threshold value. As the spacing is increased more substantially the number of bikes involved, and fatalities, would have decreased, sure. The problem with this argument is that it's so arbitrary. You know how they all could have survived...probably? If they'd have stayed home. Maybe if they'd spread out at quarter-mile intervals only one would have died, so that's what they should have done? That's how your argument is coming across. This guy wasn't charged because he killed 5 or more people. Surely his case ought to be much the same if he'd killed only 1.

    The manual says it's the "best" way and specifically recommends balancing the benefits of maintaining close ranks for visibility with the need for a space cushion. Your entire argument rests on the false assumption that the riders were supposed to be 5 seconds apart, or thereabouts, and that visibility as a group is no benefit at all (5 second spacing implies that there is no discernible group). But the manual nominally uses 2 seconds with only a 1 second spacing in a staggered formation, which it describes as the "best" way of balancing the visibility advantages of maintaining close ranks with the need to maintain an adequate space cushion. This is a fact you obviously have no reasonable response to. We (including you) do not know how many would have died if they'd have done exactly what the manual suggests, but I'd guess there would still be multiple fatalities.

    Perhaps they were a bit more bunched up than that. So you are arguing that at least a few of them have only themselves to blame? Is that your point? Because that's the point you sound like you're trying to make. None of the following distance recommendations have anything to do with dealing with a head on collision with a vehicle out of its lane. There isn't any safe following distance for that scenario because the effective closing speed includes the speed of the oncoming vehicle.
     
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  9. wilson911

    wilson911

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    His point is that he is someone who needs to have the last word. Even when he is out of his depth. Or just randomly speculating. He certainly brings no evidence to back up his claims. That is the only point he has made in this thread. Since he needs the last word so bad, please just let him have it.
     
  10. deerdad

    deerdad NES Member

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    You sound like a typical liberal defending an illegal by victim blaming. Go ahead and keep trying to convince everyone that the bikes share the blame. They were hit hard by an idiot that shouldn't have been here to begin with but let's put some of the blame on the victims. Sounds like the type that would say "she was asking for it by her clothing choice.




    Get real and quit being nothing more than a troll looking to get a rise out of people.
    Done with this
     
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  11. wilson911

    wilson911

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    Just for the record, the only five second rule I recognize involves dropped food. My dog recognizes no such rule.
     
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  12. kevin9

    kevin9

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    Counter points and facts have been offered, and ignored with repeated assertion. At this point it's become a waste of time, a. la.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Woodstock

    Woodstock NES Member

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    A couple of things haven't been considered in this otherwise learned and polite discussion: where the bikes came to rest has absolutely nothing to do with where they were or how close together they were prior to the collision. Ditto the amount of damage and how it may or may not have occurred.
    Also, it's wrong to assume that the pickup did all the damage head-on into one bike after another. He skidded off the left side of the road, and the trailer jackknifed, presenting a long combination of iron that may have mowed through several bikes at once. His slide to that side placed him right in the path of any biker who tried to dodge to the right, the natural reaction to a wreck developing in one's own lane.
    A witness who was riding with the group was on the local news over the weekend, and he said that the lead bikes hadn't shifted into third gear after leaving the restaurant. Maybe some NES Harley owners can translate that into MPH. And maybe there was a GoPro or dash cam running that captured the whole thing. All we know now is that seven innocent people lost their lives because Vlod was on the wrong side of the road. And that makes it 100% his fault. RIP.
     
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  14. Jason Flare

    Jason Flare NES Member

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    The rule for boating accidents is that everyone must follow the rules but everyone is allowed to deviate from the rules to avoid an accident.

    In boating accidents responsibility is given to all parties involved.

    Here’s an extreme example:

    A cruise ship became unmoored at a pier and drifted into an anchorage damaging a number of small boats. One boat was compensated more than the others for their loss.

    The boat that was better compensated was displaying a dayshape; a round black ball required by the Collision Regulations to be displayed by a boat at anchor. The boats compensated less were not following the ColRegs and were given a higher percentage of responsibility by authorities.

    Keep in mind these boats were at anchor and likely unoccupied when they were hit.

    But that’s boating and not automobiles.

    I have no clue whatsoever how the NTSB assigns responsibility in auto accidents.
     
  15. jpk

    jpk

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    Virtually every accident between two or more motor vehicles is a function of speed and proximity to one another.

    The faster they are going relative to one another and the closer they are in proximity to one another the less time the drivers have to react to one another

    If you or anyone else is going to deny this fact and basic physics they might as well sign up for the flat earth society

    There's no denying that there were at least 5 bikes in close proximity to one another because the accident site is 500 feet away from the motel.




    20 minute ride to 82....if they were intent on buying tickets to the raffle they were going to then they had 10 mins or less to park/buy tickets........thats not a lot of time and may or may not be a contributing factor
     
  16. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

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    I don't think you know that stretch of road at all. You must be thinking of the maps that incorrectly put the crash site on the long straight section near Lowe's Garage. It's not.
     
  17. jpk

    jpk

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    You would have to deny physics to achieve that given their starting point

    Outside of hollywood thats not what happens when a rig jacknife's, particularly when the trailer has no load (ie no pin weight) on dry pavement

    That trailer is a gooseneck or 5th wheel not a bumper pull and its got its own brakes and the 2500 has a brake controller which controls them in tandem with the trucks own brakes.

    An unloaded trailer is more prone to jackknife but the lack of pin weight combined with the light rear end of the 2500 is almost 100% of the time going to push the rear end of the truck sideways around the front end which is heavy and has traction....especially if that 2500 had the 6.7 cummins in it....its a bloody boat anchor.....to do this on dry pavement the brakes on the trailer would have had to fail or not be connected.

    Anything is possible but its not probable given the conditions and the final resting position of the truck/trailer.....both upright and the front end stuffed into the embankment and the trailer continued to push the rear end of the truck forward until it was more or less in a jacknifed position with the left side of truck and trailer close to one another

    Depends on the bike

    5 speed tranny how fast or slow in each gear

    06 Harley FLSTF listed below Motorcycle gear/rpm/speed calculator

    Upshift from 3-4 is almost 50mph and redline in 3rd puts you over 80mph
     
  18. jpk

    jpk

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    For you to continually make unfounded claims about what I think or dont thing, who I like or dont like says nothing about me and everything about YOU.

    You're the one that has constantly flung shit in this thread and ignored how things on the ground actually work.

    I only chimed in because people were shit posting and calling for the driver to be killed without so much as a fair trial and ignoring the fact that vehicles following too closely share responsibility in in an accident.....a simple fact that most riders ignore

    We'll see once the fed and staties release their report.
     
  19. jpk

    jpk

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    I've ridden and driven that road many times.

    I dont know the motel by name but unless the news quoted the wrong one and/or the map put it in the wrong place that road will support way more than 50mph and people regularly go far faster on 2

    I've since sold my bike and havent replaced it, dont know if I will,
     
  20. rudiewhitebwoy

    rudiewhitebwoy NES Life Member NES Member

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    There is a big glass donation jar @ Yaya's, which is where these poor folks had their last meal. The owner told me she's emptying it several times a day. As I was pulling in to pick up our lunch Saturday, there must've been 25 bikes trying to get out of the downpour. They were crowding around the gas pumps under the roof. I tried to buy a stamp so I could drop off my property tax bill @ the Post Office right next door. They didn't have any but the owner offered to drop off with my check with her own at the Town Hall on Monday. I told her I'd be right back with it, it's only 1/2 a mile away. I overheard a few people asking if they had any sweatshirts left to buy, but they didn't. I told one of them, a very wet and cute girl in a USMC Tank Top I'd be right back with a few sweatshirts but they might be kinda big for her. She said anything will do. It took a little time as they're all socked away for the summer. When I pulled back in ten minutes later there were at least 100 bikes there. I had to park at the Post Office. I handed the owner my tax check and a few XL sweatshirts for anyone that needed them and I gave that poor girl a medium from my wife. When I was pulling out there must've been another 25 bikes that had pulled in and more turning in.
     
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  21. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

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    I commuted it daily.

    I accept your admission of inferior knowledge.
     
  22. jpk

    jpk

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    A pile of people including yourself have and continue to leap to conclusions.

    I've done nothing but offer possibilities and simple facts of physics and whats been reported to date.

    The fact of the matter is that I havent blamed ANYONE

    What I've done is pointed out the simple laws of physics and that when you stuff a larger number of moving vehicles into small space, add speed and a hazard that needs to be avoided by 5 or more riders with passengers complicating things further you get a hot f***ing mess and an increasing probability that one or more of them made a mistake or didnt have an out.....this is what happens when you ride in a group in close proximity.....you lose options in where you can manouever without hitting someone else in your group whether its side to side or accellerating/braking
     
  23. bgoum

    bgoum NES Member

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    [popcorn]
    IBTL
     
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  24. Woodstock

    Woodstock NES Member

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    "You would have to deny physics to achieve that given their starting point"

    So every bike dropped exactly where it was hit, never skidded or was dragged. And the yellow bike just flew apart because of inferior materials and construction, unlike the red one which remained intact.

    "Outside of hollywood thats not what happens when a rig jacknife's, particularly when the trailer has no load (ie no pin weight) on dry pavement

    That trailer is a gooseneck or 5th wheel not a bumper pull and its got its own brakes and the 2500 has a brake controller which controls them in tandem with the trucks own brakes."

    We can assume that Vlod, just having unloaded two cars at a weight of thousands of pounds, and on his second day, carefully adjusted the brake controller to apply less signal to the trailer brakes. Otherwise they could lock up in a panic stop, skid and jackknife. The truck has ABS. Not so the trailer. Jackknifes happen when the trailer brakes lock up and skid, not when they're disconnected.

    "Depends on the bike

    5 speed tranny how fast or slow in each gear

    06 Harley FLSTF listed below Motorcycle gear/rpm/speed calculator

    Upshift from 3-4 is almost 50mph and redline in 3rd puts you over 80mph"

    Most Harleys built in the last decade have 6-speeds. Lower shift points. And the FLSTF is a Softtail, not a heavy tourer. Doubt they redlined their Electraglides pulling out of the diner.
     
  25. jpk

    jpk

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    If/When the NTSB and NHSP/DOS come back and state that lack of helmets and/or riding in close proximity was a significant factor in loss of life/injury are you going to continue to shit post "derp derp......."I have a right to tailgate" nonsense?

    You KNOW this is coming based on the statement of the NTSB and the fact that they only get involved in ~20 MV investigations a year and only when it suits the agenda they want to push......

    How about the inevitable DOS/Dem push for helmet requirements that will be submitted for next years legislative session? You going to show up for those hearing?
     
  26. deerdad

    deerdad NES Member

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    Keep victim blaming. Keep pointing the finger at the ones who were minding their own business when this piece of crap kid HIT THEM. You HAD to have been picked on by service members or other bikers to try to keep pushing the blame towards them. Physics this and physics that, DO NOT hide the fact the kid is completely to blame for the deaths. Twist it any way you can, ultimately they are gone because of someone that shouldn't have been allowed to drive ended up killing them. Shove your physics where the sun doesn't shine.

    Greg
     
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  27. jpk

    jpk

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    Nobody said the bikes magically stopped exactly where they first contacted pavement

    The red bike closest to the photographer was dropped and slid

    The yellow bike damage is consistent with a bike that was high sided.....its smashed on top/bottom/front and back

    Had it been stuffed under the front end of the truck and dragged it would look very very different and there wouldnt be that crater sized divit next to the double yellow line where something hit the pavement REALLY hard

    I'm not going to speculate on what he did or didnt do with the brake controller

    If he has the factory controller its integrated with the trucks computer and it rediculously easy to save different profiles for trailers and go back and forth as needed.

    Jackknifing happens when the trailer exerts a significant force on the rear end of the truck pulling it....ie the truck brakes a LOT faster than the trailer

    Its more common on an unloaded trailer because there's less pin weight/downward force on the rear end of truck

    the truck would not have come to rest in the orientation it did if that trailer had done a hollywood slide sideways down the road

    Yea, again it depends on the bike....the report was that someone said they had not gotten out of 3rd gear yet.......the point is that it doesnt tell us much because 3rd gear could be anything from 30 - 80
     
  28. jpk

    jpk

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    The driver of the truck may very well be 100% to blame but no one knows that yet so whats the point in you claiming that he is or isnt?

    Its well known that dodge and every other manufacturer has had drag link and tie rod failures on these trucks.......you going to continue to blame him if its determined to be a function of a mechanical failure?

    How about if it turns out that he was swerving to avoid a kid/cow/moose?

    I dont know what happened but whats been reported so far suggests that this wasnt as simple as some people think......otherwise the NTSB wouldnt be involved
     
  29. Rat187

    Rat187 NES Member

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    JPK: Look seven people on motorcycles were killed by a crack smoke douche who partied at the beach next day....Defending this moron is your right. But please have some respect for the young Marines that died needlessly. This tragedy effected more than the men killed family's shattered, friends, and quite a few of us here. Give it a rest please...

    I'm not going to engage you in debate
     
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  30. jpk

    jpk

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    You KNOW that .gov is going to rule that x number of the fatalities could have been prevented if the riders were wearing helmets because they ALWAYS say that

    My previous post stands

     

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