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7 killed , 3 hurt in motorcycle-truck accident in Randolph NH

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by calsdad, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. 10thSFFD

    10thSFFD NES Member

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    I can't post what I have tried to post here already. But let me help you; Shine light on that unscrupulous employer and you will understand much more. Sorry for being brief.
     

  2. jpk

    jpk

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    Classy post......

    The fact of the matter remains that no matter what the driver of the truck did......7 killed and 3 injured......thats a bare min of 5 bikes involved and likely more

    5 bikes following at 5 second intervals instead of as a pack means that the last bike would have had at LEAST 25 second to avoid the first bike if it went down and approx half that (12.5) seconds to avoid an oncoming vehicle

    Apply same to 4th bike, 3rd and 2nd bike and anyone with half a brain and a few miles in the saddle comprehends that in order for at LEAST 5 bikes to be involved in this crash they necessarily must have been following each other too closely according to NH RSA.....otherwise one or more of them would have had time to avoid the accident......even a lumbering cruiser/touring bike had sufficient time to take action.......remember this is a nice big wide section of road where this occurred.....it wasnt a narrow/twisting section of road with no where to go.

    Dont be surprised when the report comes out that the driver of the truck predictably is assigned primary blame but the drivers of the bikes will be found to be partially at fault for following each other too closely.
     
  3. jpk

    jpk

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    Nothing about our court system is quick and lucrative.......Mass gov is fundamentally corrupt and it will weasel/delay/deflect/make excuses and the judge(s) will permit it

    If the courts even rule that the victims have standing this will go on for years and the only people that will win are the lawyers
     
  4. jpk

    jpk

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    Reading and Comprehension are two different things eh?

    From the NH doc you quoted

    Most discussions/training/documents will get you to 5 seconds on the highway.

    I've ridden in groups before and most of the time they dont maintain more than 1 second following distance......



    We're talking about highway speeds not poking around
     
  5. wilson911

    wilson911

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    You continue to post about this 5 seconds vs. Pack formation as if it matters. Please post where this is stated by the investigators or how you have inside information. Im looking for FACTS not your opinion. I'm tired of rampant speculation when NONE of these facts are known.
     
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  6. jpk

    jpk

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    I would agree with you.......but there's no other way you get a minimum of 5 bikes involved in a crash with another vehicle unless those bikes are in close proximity to one another.

    Am I speculating? Yep.......am I shitposting and calling for a pound of someone's flesh proclaiming guilt? Nope
     
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  7. wilson911

    wilson911

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    A distinction without a difference.
     
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  8. jpk

    jpk

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    OF COURSE it matters......how else to you get a bare minumum of 5 bikes involved in a crash if they were not in close proximity to one another......

    Marines among 7 dead in Randolph crash; witness describes aftermath
     
  9. jpk

    jpk

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    So no diff between information sharing/discussion on HOW 5-6 bikes get involved in an accident at once and people shitposting and calling for a pound of flesh well......thats precious.

    My bet is that in the end the investigation will conclude that no one party is entirely at fault.

    Tragic and unnecessary accident with loss of life......

    You think anyone is going to reflect on the overt danger associated with riding in close proximity?

    I'm not going to hold my breath.....
     
  10. Jason Flare

    Jason Flare NES Member

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    These were former marines.

    What group of people would it take for posters to be saying, “PSGWS. They had to be following too close for seven to lose their lives.”

    Maybe if they were a group of anti-gun bikers riding for Moms Demand Action.
     
  11. AHM

    AHM NES Member

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    You can say that again.
     
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  12. meh

    meh NES Member

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    The phrase "close proximity" has no fixed meaning here. Relative velocities matter, and in the case of a head-on collision, relative mass matters. I'm sure it would be easy to take out a half-dozen motorcyclists who are following one another at a safe distance if the oncoming vehicle is a large truck traveling at 90mph and the motorcyclists are traveling at 10mph. When you re-analyze with the truck traveling at less speed and increasing the speed of the bikers to approach something probably more like what happened there, the expected number of fatalities may decrease as the speeds are changed, but I have no idea what the number of fatalities could or would be. I'm not convinced that you're taking enough variables into account to have a very good idea.
     
  13. kevin9

    kevin9

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    Speak for yourself. It was not night time, it was not slippery, the speed limit on that stretch of road appears to be 50 mph, which may or may not qualify as "higher speed", particularly given they had just started on the road about 1000' feet before. Most one gets is 4 seconds.
    Citation please. Note that the road in question is a 2 lane 50 mph road, not a +4 lane +55 mph interstate.
    Assumption that your past experience equates to this situation.

    5 bikes means 4 intervals, 20 seconds front to back, and 16 seconds if you use reasonable 4 second intervals given it was not dark or slippery.

    Furthermore consider that 4 of the 5 bikes could have been riding as abreast pairs which appears to be legal in NH and not a violation of the 2/3/4/5 second rule. Assuming the bikes were legally riding 1x2x2 at 4 second intervals the last pair only has 4 seconds, not 12.5 seconds, to react to an oncoming truck & trailer hitting the first bike at a closing rate of ~100 mph.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  14. jpk

    jpk

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    Its a basic physics problem...you can deny all you want

    The closer operators are to one another and the higher the speed, the less time they have to react and avoid one another

    In other news you can bet that this will be the proverbial 'Never let a crisis go to waste"

     
  15. jpk

    jpk

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    You know that stretch of road?

    I do......

    Its wide open with broad shoulders and good visibility.....when was the last time you did 50mph on a wide open road with good visibility and broad shoulders in good weather when conditions would allow for 60 easily

    The truck/trailer were unloaded so I would bet we'll see black box data from the truck that shows that he was above the speed limit too.

    If each of the bikes were following at 4-5 second intervals then there wouldnt have been at least 5 bikes involved and as per the photos they wouldnt have come to rest in close proximity

    But the signature photo of the accident shows 3 bikes within about 3 bike lengths of one another

    [​IMG]

    That doesnt happen when people are following at 4-5 second intervals
     
  16. deerdad

    deerdad NES Member

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    It will happen that way when the get PUSHED and Dragged.


     
  17. jpk

    jpk

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    Lets throw some math at this

    At 50mph you cover 73.3 feet every second
    At 60mph you cover 88 feet every second

    Assuming for a moment the bikes were doing the 50mph speed limit AND they were following at 4 second intervals then each of the 5(?) bikes would have been a minimum of 293 feet apart.

    The distance between first to last of 5 bikes there would have been a spread of almost 1200'

    Yet the signature photo of the crash scene shows 3 bikes in very close proximity.....

    Bikes 1 and 3 from the photo are consistent with bikes that were laid down and slid....these are cruisers with all kids of shit/foot rests, kick stands/center stands and other shit that hangs low and tends to contact pavement when attempting to avoid stuff/trying to turn

    Bike #2 in yellow is strewn about with at least one wheel having come detatched........the condition is not inconsistent with a bike that was high sided/tumbled
     
  18. jpk

    jpk

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    The condition of the bikes in the photo is not consistent with having been pushed/dragged....if those three bikes had been pushed/dragged they would be in a pile and likely in flames under the front end of the truck
     
  19. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    But, y’know, it’s wrong to speculate before the official report comes out. Right?
     
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  20. wilson911

    wilson911

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    More speculation. No valuable or reliable information can be ascertained from that photo. There is nothing of fact, specific to this crash, in any of your posts. I appreciate your interest in arguing your point, but I will wait until there are verifiable facts known.
     
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  21. jpk

    jpk

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    Three wrecked bikes at the scene of the accident in close proximity to one another isnt valuable info?

    How about a crash violent enough for a wheel to be forcibly removed or the ginourmous divit/crater in the pavement just to the side of the double yellow

    What pray tell would be considered valuable info if all of that doesnt qualify?
     
  22. jpk

    jpk

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    The only thing that matters is the 5+ bikes involved in the crash

    Here's a map of the site which allegedly happened 500 feet from the motel

    Mount Jefferson View Motel in Randolph at DuckDuckGo

    You ever ridden a bike let alone as part of a group ride?

    I have.....

    Folks pull out together in close proximity ALL THE TIME.

    Folks also have a habit of gunning it up to speed as a group as well

    So how exactly do we get at least 5 bikes involved in an accident if they were not close together?....ESPECIALLY if they were going slow/not doing the limit at the time of the wreck?

    What are some possible explanations that involve the riders NOT following each other closely?

    I dont have one and the ME has now stated that all of the deaths were blunt force trauma

    Y'all better gear up to fight against a major push for helmet laws in NH next year because you know the dems are going to push for it
     
  23. wilson911

    wilson911

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    Yes, that is all speculation. I know nothing definite from looking at that photo. Were the bikes moved to reach a victim? What is the angle the pic was taken from? What is the scale? Where are they in relation to the truck? There are just far too many questions that are unanswered, and that photo, while maybe valuable to the investigators does not tell us anything. I am certain you will come back and tell me how dumb I am and that you know everything by looking at it. But that's not possible. I was with you when you were warning against speculation, but now that you are speculating on everything you have lost me.

    Again, I will wait for facts and wish you luck.
     
  24. 67ray

    67ray NES Member

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    Please @Admin put this thread out of its misery
     
  25. jpk

    jpk

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    There are no fantasies involved.

    I've ridden with a bunch of different groups and I can count on one hand the number of times that a merge onto a 50mph road was leisurely

    If what was reported accurate and that the accident was 500 feet from the motel then there's no way around the simple fact that the 5 or 6 bikes involved in the accident were by necessity in close proximity to one another.

    There's no way around this.

    There's also no way a bike like that yellow one takes a tumble/high sides and shatters like that without speed.....the bike isnt crushed as if it was hit, its shattered on all sides as if it was high sided/tumbled

    I think its pretty clear that the driver of the truck shouldnt have been on the road but I'm also pretty sure that the investigators are going to find that there's a much larger story to tell
     
  26. jpk

    jpk

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    ever tried to move an 8-900# cruiser like the ones in the photo?

    All I'm saying is that you're almost certain to find the investigators rule that no one party is at fault and there is almost certainly blame to go round.......
     
  27. The5thDentist

    The5thDentist NES Life Member NES Member

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    First time I've ever heard of the Ukraine referred to as a shithole country. o_O
     
  28. jpk

    jpk

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    If you had read the news you would know that the accident was at 6:30p and that they were heading to post 82 in Gorham for the weekly raffle at 7pm.........post 82 is 19 miles away from the motel.

    Do the math....
     
  29. jpk

    jpk

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    I'm not advocating for him

    I'm pointing out that this wasnt a simple clear cut accident

    There were a minimum of 5 bikes involved and several if not all of them had passengers

    They were all in close proximity

    Including the driver of the truck thats a minimum of 6 operators of different vehicles involved in this accident...each of them trying to make a decision/take action on how to avoid one another at the same time?

    You going to try to assert for a moment that this wasnt a contributing factor?

    How about the impact of the passengers and their reactions when riders likely tried to avoid collision?

    You going to assert that somehow you've got time on a bike and havent for even a second considered any of this?
     
  30. meh

    meh NES Member

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