7 killed , 3 hurt in motorcycle-truck accident in Randolph NH

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Anyone know the route for the memorial ride tomorrow?

I have to go to Tilton and dont want to get caught up in the traffic if they're headed up 93.
 

jpk

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The injuries, including traumatic amputations, don't happen just from a bike going down. They were hit.
I assume you're right

Imagine what an 850# bike like a road king HD tumbling down the road along with bodies does......thats what you get when someone high sides a bike.....when it happens in close proximity to other bikes it gets multipled......

That truck and trailer are not the only sources of catastrophic injuries is my guess having ridden a lot of miles in my younger years

There's also been no mention of helmets or other protective riding gear.

When you hit the pavement in jeans instead of leather you tend to tumble instead of sliding which is prone to cause lots of ugly internal injuries
 

KBCraig

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I assume you're right

Imagine what an 850# bike like a road king HD tumbling down the road along with bodies does......thats what you get when someone high sides a bike.....when it happens in close proximity to other bikes it gets multipled......

That truck and trailer are not the only sources of catastrophic injuries is my guess having ridden a lot of miles in my younger years

There's also been no mention of helmets or other protective riding gear.

When you hit the pavement in jeans instead of leather you tend to tumble instead of sliding which is prone to cause lots of ugly internal injuries
Fair enough. I don't have the answers either. I'm basing my assumptions on what has been shown thus far.

One thing I do know: there is no mechanical problem, NTSB finding or not, that would explain or excuse the truck driver crossing the double yellow line and crashing into the tree line on the opposite side. He was driving down the road pulling an unloaded trailer. Even a blowout wouldn't explain what happened.
 

jpk

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Fair enough. I don't have the answers either. I'm basing my assumptions on what has been shown thus far.

One thing I do know: there is no mechanical problem, NTSB finding or not, that would explain or excuse the truck driver crossing the double yellow line and crashing into the tree line on the opposite side. He was driving down the road pulling an unloaded trailer. Even a blowout wouldn't explain what happened.
There is an explanation that I havent seen anyone raise yet that is not uncommon on solid front axle trucks due to wear/tear/play in front end components.....death wobble.

Its typically a function of stacking of fatal tolerances/play in front end components from wheel bearing up thru steering components to ball joints that can play a part in contributing to death wobble conditions.

Nobody wants to talk about this, least of all the truck manufacturers but everyone that drives larger trucks and pulls a load knows what I'm talking about
 

jpk

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We aren't the Justice system. There is no reason to refrain from interest.

Any more so than if the incident were a cop that abused his power to kill someone or a cute teacher pleasuring her students for extra credit.
Having interest in is one thing

Shit stirring/demanding a # of flesh without the facts is entirely another thing.
 

10thSFFD

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I have shared with you that this is just the tip of the iceberg. In order to prevent situations like this in the future many things have to happen.

What Crying Baker did is unacceptable. He has recognized that RMV screwed up (in few hundreds of cases) and instead of fixing it he has created another well paid position to supervise the system which was never supervised to begin with. That is really bad!

MA will be slammed by lawsuits and we, taxpayers, will be paying again.

State officials say hundreds more licenses have been suspended in RMV probe - The Boston Globe
Nearly 900 drivers accused of vehicular homicide, drinking while driving, and other serious offenses had been allowed to keep their licenses because the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles ignored thousands of alerts from other states, officials said Friday.

The latest disclosure marks a significant jump from the 546 drivers whose licenses officials had previously suspended as part of their review of the Registry. Stephanie Pollack, the state’s transportation secretary, said officials suspended 330 more licenses this week, bringing the total to 876.

More suspensions may still be coming as officials dig through archived notifications going back to 2011, she said.

For the first time Friday, the Registry also revealed the breadth of charges those drivers faced in other states, a stunning list of more than 70 offenses that include leaving the scene of a fatal accident, driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and fatal hit-and-run.

The new details deepen the fallout within the department, where officials have been trying to identify drivers who should have lost their licenses but slipped through the cracks after Registry workers filed away, apparently unread, tens of thousands of paper notifications of infractions that other states had sent Massachusetts since at least March 2018.

The Baker administration has also had to reckon with its admission that the Registry should have terminated the commercial license of a 23-year-old West Springfield truck driver before he allegedly plowed into a group of motorcycle riders, killing seven, last month in Randolph, N.H.

Officials have disclosed that at least since early last year, no one at the Registry had been tracking paper notifications sent by other states when a Massachusetts motorist is cited or charged there.

Instead, workers “simply sorted them into mail bins” and put them into a records room inside the Registry’s Quincy headquarters.

State officials said they initially found 53 bins stashed there. But Pollack said Friday they found five more, and 72 additional ones were pulled from the Registry’s archives in Concord, dating back to 2011. Officials are still processing those notices, but so far, the Registry has suspended the licenses of 746 people they’ve identified from the search in Quincy and another 130 from the search in Concord.

As part of its review, state officials said Friday they’ve hired the accounting firm Grant Thornton to conduct an “end-to-end” forensic audit, including determining why the Registry failed to revoke Zhukovskyy’s license before the crash. The firm is expected to issue a 30-day interim report and a final report in 60 days.

Officials are also creating a deputy registrar position focused on public safety. And Baker said he is drafting legislation designed to tighten the requirements for getting a commercial driver’s license, though details were not released.

In an unprecedented move, state officials are planning to cross-reference all 5.2 million of its license holders at one time with a federal database of motor vehicle infractions. The process is expected to start July 15.


 
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There is an explanation that I havent seen anyone raise yet that is not uncommon on solid front axle trucks due to wear/tear/play in front end components.....death wobble.

Its typically a function of stacking of fatal tolerances/play in front end components from wheel bearing up thru steering components to ball joints that can play a part in contributing to death wobble conditions.

Nobody wants to talk about this, least of all the truck manufacturers but everyone that drives larger trucks and pulls a load knows what I'm talking about
Valid point but I think this truck was too new to hit death wobble territory. Took about 5 years for my 2012 jeep to wear out the front end enough for the wheels to over oscillate into a wobble. That will definitely scare any driver at highway speed.

Even so....I would still place blame on driver, your vehicle must be controlled by you.
 

Picton

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Valid point but I think this truck was too new to hit death wobble territory. Took about 5 years for my 2012 jeep to wear out the front end enough for the wheels to over oscillate into a wobble. That will definitely scare any driver at highway speed.

Even so....I would still place blame on driver, your vehicle must be controlled by you.
Also, PMCS. It’s a fleet setting, however sloppily run, and somewhere there’s a checklist that covers maintenance.

The driver is responsible for everything that happened. If he feels this “death wobble,” he slows or stops.
 

jpk

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Valid point but I think this truck was too new to hit death wobble territory. Took about 5 years for my 2012 jeep to wear out the front end enough for the wheels to over oscillate into a wobble. That will definitely scare any driver at highway speed.

Even so....I would still place blame on driver, your vehicle must be controlled by you.
Its not a function of age, its a function of wear.

I wouldnt be surprised if the truck (commercial) was already over 100k

Take a look at the vids in the links below then add a trailer exceeding 10k # to the equasion.........truly a depends adult diaper situation

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsBmqz6ZlLs


https://jalopnik.com/jeep-death-wobble-is-so-violent-it-will-make-you-crap-y-1795053642
 

jpk

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Also, PMCS. It’s a fleet setting, however sloppily run, and somewhere there’s a checklist that covers maintenance.

The driver is responsible for everything that happened. If he feels this “death wobble,” he slows or stops.
This is clearly an abstract concept to you.......you dont always get to pick and choose what happens especially when you've got a load behind you

This ones for you picton

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Kfl97b57s
 
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Picton

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This is clearly an abstract concept to you.......you dont always get to pick and choose what happens especially when you've got a load behind you
Yup.

I’m still not convinced. What the vehicle does on the road is still the driver’s fault. If not, then whose?
 

jpk

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Yup.

I’m still not convinced. What the vehicle does on the road is still the driver’s fault. If not, then whose?
You dont seem to get it....go back to driving your mini cooper convertable

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Kfl97b57s


Poor road conditions/obstacles, wind and a raft of other unpredictable and UNCONTROLLABLE factors cause accidents all the time....not everything is the fault of the driver
 

Picton

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You dont seem to get it....go back to driving your mini cooper convertable

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Kfl97b57s


Poor road conditions/obstacles, wind and a raft of other unpredictable and UNCONTROLLABLE factors cause accidents all the time....not everything is the fault of the driver
No, I’m truly asking you. If not the driver, then who is at fault? In ANY vehicle? In ANY conditions?

If your training isn’t up to your load, then your duty is to stay out of the cab. If your training isn’t up to the conditions, then your duty is to pull over. No?
 

jpk

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No, I’m truly asking you. If not the driver, then who is at fault? In ANY vehicle? In ANY conditions?
Is the driver in control of geography/cross winds or the weather broadly that can suddenly and unpredictably insert itself into life?

If course not

You might as well blame the driver of a vehicle that was picked up by a tornado/high winds and shoved into a house for it.....

Whats disturbing is that the notion that every aspect of life is not within the control of an individual.........and that you're incapable of grasping this fact......and that you're involved in education......

Maybe you can find a way of blaming global warming for it
 

Picton

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Is the driver in control of geography/cross winds or the weather broadly that can suddenly and unpredictably insert itself into life?

If course not

You might as well blame the driver of a vehicle that was picked up by a tornado/high winds and shoved into a house for it.....

Whats disturbing is that the notion that every aspect of life is not within the control of an individual.........and that you're incapable of grasping this fact......and that you're involved in education......

Maybe you can find a way of blaming global warming for it
Why are you quite so pissy about this? I’m not the only one wondering.

There was no tornado that day. No blizzard. No unpredictable temporal vortex. Just a kid with a load on a straight road in good weather.

Mechanical? Sure, okay. But he’s still accountable for the condition of his vehicle. Just like every other driver.
 

Jason Flare

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I had a tie rod break and my left front wheel/tire turned 90* to the one on the right.

The tie rod had been replaced a few weeks before and it had a crack in it where it broke.
 
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jpk

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Why are you quite so pissy about this? I’m not the only one wondering.

There was no tornado that day. No blizzard. No unpredictable temporal vortex. Just a kid with a load on a straight road in good weather.

Mechanical? Sure, okay. But he’s still accountable for the condition of his vehicle. Just like every other driver.
Any you were there at the time to testify to the conditions of the road, weather, wildlife and a multitude of other factors?

Of course not.....

This is your typical overly simplistic approach to most posts on NES....
 

jpk

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I had a tie rod break and my left front wheel/tire turned 90* to the one on the right.

The tie rod had been replaced a few weeks before and it had a crack in it where it broke.
This is what picton cant seem to grasp......and picton's overly simplistic view of the world would yield a response that its your fault the tie rod cracked.......
 

SERE

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You dont seem to get it....go back to driving your mini cooper convertable

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Kfl97b57s


Poor road conditions/obstacles, wind and a raft of other unpredictable and UNCONTROLLABLE factors cause accidents all the time....not everything is the fault of the driver
Most all of these look as though they were loaded with too little tongue weight. I have seen it and done it. When you have more lumber/trailer/high top van/load in the back you are going to start to swerve. When you rent an RV they implore you to load tongue heavy. Most people don't . They open the side door and stick everything towards 'the back' so it is out of the way. Then they add a 2' hitch carrier off the back end and exacerbate the problem.
 

Picton

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This is what picton cant seem to grasp......and picton's overly simplistic view of the world would yield a response that its your fault the tie rod cracked.......
No, I grasp it.

And if, God forbid, Jason’s cracked tie rod had killed seven people, he’d undoubtedly have been found liable barring a manufacturing defect. As he should be. Responsibility: every driver assumes it.

You’d rather absolve the driver. That’s fine, but I don’t understand why.
 

jpk

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Most all of these look as though they were loaded with too little tongue weight. I have seen it and done it. When you have more lumber/trailer/high top van/load in the back you are going to start to swerve. When you rent an RV they implore you to load tongue heavy. Most people don't . They open the side door and stick everything towards 'the back' so it is out of the way. Then they add a 2' hitch carrier off the back end and exacerbate the problem.
Possibly but my point is that small stuff turns into big stuff in a hurry when you're carrying a load and no one on this forum knows what actually happened that day so rushing to judgement serves no one
 

jpk

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No, I grasp it.

And if, God forbid, Jason’s cracked tie rod had killed seven people, he’d undoubtedly have been found liable barring a manufacturing defect. As he should be. Responsibility: every driver assumes it.

You’d rather absolve the driver. That’s fine, but I don’t understand why.
You might want to go back and re-read jasons post if thats what your take away was.

There's a reason why they are called "Accidents" instead off HOMICIDES or ASSAULTS

Until the facts are revealed its impossible to assign blame and your responses demonstrate just how ignorant you are on this subject
 
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I had a tie rod break and my left front wheel/tire turned 90* to the one on the right.

The tie rod had been replaced a few weeks before and it had a crack in it where it broke.
Fake news, I have been told by members of this board that we need inspection stickers from the gov so this doesn't happen.
 

jpk

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Sure. The opposite is true too. Let's not exonerate people just because you think people are picking on him.

What we DO know is the truck driver had recent drug arrests and I understand that is supposed to affect your CDL. The employer ought to have fired him for that, regardless.

I am also aware of some facts that were not published and clearly some others here are as well.
This thread is a light year away from anyone exonerating the driver so lets not pretend thats on the table

As for the rest of it you're going to have a hard time argueing that its ok for people to drive/hold licenses with current use/turning of blind eye to MJ and H while crucifying this guy

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the past assertions wrt drugs revolves around drug testing rather than operating while using MJ/H etc

Anyone who tries to argue that its ok for avg driver to smoke pot/drive even hours later while assserting DUI of any sort is bad is a huge hypocrite
 

meh

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Yup.

I’m still not convinced. What the vehicle does on the road is still the driver’s fault. If not, then whose?
Assigning "fault" oversimplifies the equation. There is criminal culpability, and then there is civil liability. Liability for what the car does might fall on the manufacturer in some cases. If the car has been properly maintained but a fault spontaneously occurs, i.e. something breaks, then the driver might be liable in the civil sense (not the criminal sense) unless the liability can be shifted to the manufacturer of the part that failed or the person who performed the maintenance. Other than that the driver is usually just liable for damages they cause, though in some cases it rises to criminal.
 
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jpk

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Assigning "fault" oversimplifies the equation. There is criminal culpability, and then there is civil liability. Liability for what the car does might fall on the manufacturer in some cases. If the car has been properly maintained but a fault spontaneously occurs, i.e. something breaks, then the driver might be liable in the civil sense but not the criminal sense unless the liability can be shifted to the manufacturer of the part that failed or the person who performed the maintenance. Other than that the driver is usually just liable for damages they cause, though in some cases it rises to criminal.
And this is why most of us carry insurance......

Consider for a moment how different the injury count/fatalities may have been if the bikes had been following/spaced from one another according to the law

NH RSA 265:25 Following Too Closely statute has even been addressed by the supreme court

https://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/finalorders/2017/20170100.pdf

General rule of thumb has always been to be at least 5 seconds behind the next vehicle.......had the bikes been following that rule then I think we would be looking at a very different situation because it would have left a large margin for each off the riders to react as needed to avoid a hazard.....even one coming at them in their lane
 

jpk

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When your own actions can't destroy someone else's life, I have zero interest in what you do. Toke up, shoot up, drink up all you want. None of MY business.
Therein lies the problem eh?

Colorado and other states are struggling with a means of measuring impairment wrt most things outside of alcohol

We also going to ban drinking coffee or eating a snack while driving?

How about listening to the radio or picking ones nose?
 

jpk

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I didn't offer a solution. I offered a point of view.

If your solution is to ban all mind altering substances, you'll have a hard time finding as many as three other people to agree with you.
Not a proposal

Just a recognition of the facts/human nature

Folks all over are/will continue to scream bloody murder over this guy having something in his blood test results while conveniently ignoring their own use/abuse of same substances
 

Picton

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Folks all over are/will continue to scream bloody murder over this guy having something in his blood test results while conveniently ignoring their own use/abuse of same substances
Wow.

That’s one HELL of an assumption on your part.
 
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