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7.62x51 NATO | .308 Rifle Recommendations
- Thread starter ASHDUMP
- Start date
No, we can't agree on that.
Most people who have a supposed SHTF rifle have never pushed it hard. They claim it is more reliable than a 3-gun rifle, but the fact is they have no clue whether it is or not.
In a bad situation, I would take a 3-gun rifle that has been well rung out over a rifle that has had a couple hundred rounds run through it and has sat in the safe for the last 10 years. The 3-gun rifle has been debugged -- its problems, if any, have already been found and fixed.
Well that's what I read through about 4 pages, all battle rifle talk, the questions from the OP were about semi auto PTR's FALS, M1As etc etc, which are battle rifles.
If people want to compare apples to oranges, have at it.
Love affair would be an exaggeration, but ok.
this might be true but the JP rifles come with the warning of not using surplus military ammo. They say themselves that the sealant used with military surplus will gink up the chamber causing jams... is this a problem with the scar? ohh the joy.
I just looked through my colt 6920 manual and it says nothing about a "de-bugging" procedure before using in a life or death scenario?. Gee wiz, I hope it works when I need it to??..Lol
i wonder if the FAL has a " de-bugging" procedure?
i wonder if the FAL has a " de-bugging" procedure?
It sure does. Try running one with the gas valve improperly adjusted. If you have too little gas going to the piston, it will short stroke and won't fully eject the spent brass. The bolt carrier will then jam the spent casing between the bolt carrier and the dust shield. You can't take off the dust shield because to do that, you have to open the hinge. And you can't do that because the bolt isn't closed. Hope your gunsmith is close. If you have too much gas going to the piston, then the extractor can rip the base off the cartridge case. Have fun getting that out of the chamber.
Also, ever had a FAL magazine baseplate come off, dumping 19 rounds, baseplate, and spring at your feet? I've had that happen too.
I don't trust any gun for defensive uses unless I've run it hard. Even good manufacturers build turds now and then.
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Looks like I'm not getting an FAL for sure. One more reason to go Scar.
The FAL was one of the most prolific rifles in history, I cant imagine it's as finicky as u make I sound. If poor starving black kids can operate one, I'm not gonna even imagine it's a problem.
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So LaRue it is
She looks pretty for sure. The 14.5" inch version weighs 8.2 lbs, probably pushing almost 9 with the 18", then with glass, yikes., she's heavy. Some people haven't gotten the .5 MOE that laRue claims even from the 18". But she's gorgeous.!!!!
Just to add
I hear a lot of talk about accuracy from some folks and then they pump the cheapest ammo they can muster through the rifle and cry foul on the rifle?
There has to be a line drawn between a "battle" rifle and a "target" gun.
I'm sure most would agree they will take a sub 4" moa battle axe with high reliability with any any ammo vs a sub moa rifle that may puke on NATO ammo.
The reason why the AK is so darn popular. It's inexpensive to make , and goes chatty clack with boring repeatability. Accurate....ahh maybe not.
Your choices are limited to the ammo you decide to dump through it.
If you can get 1moa with 308 nato with your rifle it's time to hit the nationals and sweep up the trophies.
I hear a lot of talk about accuracy from some folks and then they pump the cheapest ammo they can muster through the rifle and cry foul on the rifle?
There has to be a line drawn between a "battle" rifle and a "target" gun.
I'm sure most would agree they will take a sub 4" moa battle axe with high reliability with any any ammo vs a sub moa rifle that may puke on NATO ammo.
The reason why the AK is so darn popular. It's inexpensive to make , and goes chatty clack with boring repeatability. Accurate....ahh maybe not.
Your choices are limited to the ammo you decide to dump through it.
If you can get 1moa with 308 nato with your rifle it's time to hit the nationals and sweep up the trophies.
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1) I have personally experienced incomplete extraction on my FAL that required a gunsmith to fix.
2) The concern about sending too much gas to the piston comes directly from DS Arms, who know a thing or two about the FAL:
"I don’t recommend closing the gas-regulator completely, as you suggested in your last Quip, unless absolutely necessary. What concerns me is not excessive wear-and-tear on the rifle. The DSA/FAL is a robust, military rifle that is designed for heavy use in hostile environments. It will take whatever you can give it! Nor is my concern with accuracy. Practical accuracy is unaffected by gas-regulator adjustments. Nor is my concern with recoil attenuation. Soft recoil is nice, but we can all handle recoil. The real problem is with case-extraction that is so violent it may result in cases being literally pulled apart as the bolt moves to the rear. The front half of the case may thus be left in the chamber, resulting in a stoppage that cannot be corrected
in the short term."
3) Once you properly adjust the gas piston on a FAL, you probably don't have to adjust it again. But if you don't follow that procedure, you can bugger the rifle. I know that because I've done it.
I've run the very same surplus ammo through my M1a and my FAL. The M1a was significantly more accurate. Some of that accuracy is no doubt due to the fact that the M1a has a good trigger and excellent sights, while the FAL has a crap trigger and fair sights.
ChevyGuy91
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LOL, came here for info, stays for SHTFantasy and BATTLE RIFLE conversation from people who would catch a hot one in the face before they get their SCARs out of the safe.
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to get a SCAR. For all the purposes outlined here in this thread. I'm not going to jump at the crazy prices right now though. I do like the promotion going on with FNH with the free trigger it comes with but some of the SCARS on the shelfs that can be found don't qualify.... maybe because they've been sitting for so long or something and the serial numbers don't match? Who knows...
A few months ago SCARS were going for $2500 for the black and FDE for like $2650. Now they are about $3K and $3500 which is a little rich for me right now.
I'm going to let the dust settle and see what happens next spring unless I find one somewhere for the real cost of what it was worth. For whatever reason FNH isn't manufacturing a lot right now. So supply is limited hence the high price.
It seems to be a very well rounded rifle... fun at the range in short distances; fun at the range a long distances (200m) and looks super killy.
Imagine what it would look like if you had your tactical uggs on too? Tom Brady would be proud I'm sure....
A few months ago SCARS were going for $2500 for the black and FDE for like $2650. Now they are about $3K and $3500 which is a little rich for me right now.
I'm going to let the dust settle and see what happens next spring unless I find one somewhere for the real cost of what it was worth. For whatever reason FNH isn't manufacturing a lot right now. So supply is limited hence the high price.
It seems to be a very well rounded rifle... fun at the range in short distances; fun at the range a long distances (200m) and looks super killy.
Imagine what it would look like if you had your tactical uggs on too? Tom Brady would be proud I'm sure....
FAL is still one of my favorite battle rifles. I've shot many brands of .308 through mine from old German and African surplus, to Wolf / Tula steel case, to 168 BTHP Federal Gold Match, and hand loads. I never had to adjust my gas system or had FTF or FTE. This bitch just keeps running. The accuracy is great for what it is. It's not sub MOA and it doesn't need to be. It just need to be capable of hitting a 6' target at a few hundred yards. I wouldn't want to have to travel multiple miles a day with it and a few hundred rounds of ammo because of the weight, but I believe they are very reliable. Jared obviously had issues with his, but the FAL is one of the most highly manufactured battle auto loading riffles of all time for a reason. I don't mind the sights and find them easy to work with. Most L1A1's also have "sand cuts" in the carrier to help with reliability in sandy conditions. The FAL has been very popular in Africa a continent that has it all, beaches, deserts, mountains, snow, rain forest, urban, farm, etc. The trigger isn't great, but then again I'm not looking for 200 yard head shots either. They are easy to beak down and clean. Check out this thread on FAL Files.
Here are photos of "Ol' Dirty" (still running) after 16,500 rounds without a cleaning.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3898607&postcount=419
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3899137&postcount=430
Here are photos of "Ol' Dirty" (still running) after 16,500 rounds without a cleaning.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3898607&postcount=419
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3899137&postcount=430
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So would I. I might just happen to know a little on real world SHTF type scenarios.
As I mentioned before, it all depends on what you want to do.
But, for $2K, the answers are fairly easy. I'd buy a good heavy barreled bolt gun, then put some good glass (a good scope) on it. Really good optics will cost you around $1000, plus another $100 or so for a mount, and $75-$150 for really good rings. Yeah, a LOT of money, but money well spent.
A decent (not great) semi-auto 308 rifle is going to cost you more than $1000, for the most part. A few MAY be under, but most of them aren't easy to readily mount a scope on either.
And, trust me, for 700 yards.meters, you're probably going to want a scope. Sure, it CAN be done without one, but it isn't easy.
And, yes, 700 meters is outside normal "battle rifle" range. I consider 500-700 meters to be Designated Marksman distance myself.
They really aren't all that finicky. They are a battle rifle and have battle rifle sights and a battle rifle trigger. And, though mounting optics CAN be done, it is neither easy or good. Everything has compromise, and that's the FAL's.
I prefer the M1A/M14 over the FAL myself. Better sights, better trigger and much more accurate. My Fed Ord M14 (USGI parts), usually eats USGI M80 ball or equivalent. My M1A Loaded usually eats M118, M852 equivalent or M118LR equivalent. For hunting, I use the Sierra 165 gr BTHP (it expands nicely).
That said, though I like them, they are battle rifles, but a good one can be tarted up into a decent DMR rifle.
If it was my choice, and I wanted to reach out to 700 meters (or up to 1000), and wanted to buy, not build, I'd get a Rem 700 Police in 308, mount a Leupold LR/T scope, with a Picatinny mount and Leupold Mark 4 rings, and learn how to shoot it. I've got a 338 Lapua just like that. I've got a custom built Rem 600 with a Hart barrel and McMillan stock much the same as that.
My initial thought was to buy a 700, put a Magpul stock on it (AICS mags), and a SWFA or Vortex scope.
Then the Ruger Precision Rifle came out and that looked attractive.
Then I keep reading and hearing about how semis auto .308 AR's are getting almost bolt gun accurate.
I don't think they are quite there yet though. I think for that 400-700 distance the bolt gun is still the correct tool.
Then the Ruger Precision Rifle came out and that looked attractive.
Then I keep reading and hearing about how semis auto .308 AR's are getting almost bolt gun accurate.
I don't think they are quite there yet though. I think for that 400-700 distance the bolt gun is still the correct tool.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Just posting this review of the SCAR 17 if anyone wants to read, pulled one paragraph and a couple of photos. Here's the link if the whole thing interests u.
http://www.gunblast.com/FN-SCAR17s.htm
"Accuracy was, as expected, very good. This is a match-accurate battle rifle. Both Federal Gold Medal and Buffalo Bore Sniper Match would group well under one inch at one hundred yards, all day. I particularly like the Buffalo Bore ammo. It uses 175 grain Sierra bullets. The group shown measures five-eighths of an inch, and it was not alone. Every group fired went well under one inch, even after the barrel heated up in the one-hundred degree heat and high humidity. Winds were dead still in the hollow between the ridges of my shooting range, and the accuracy of this SCAR was so consistent as to border on monotony. Again, even with the commercial 308 ammo, reliability was perfect, just as it was with the military ball ammo."
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http://www.gunblast.com/FN-SCAR17s.htm
"Accuracy was, as expected, very good. This is a match-accurate battle rifle. Both Federal Gold Medal and Buffalo Bore Sniper Match would group well under one inch at one hundred yards, all day. I particularly like the Buffalo Bore ammo. It uses 175 grain Sierra bullets. The group shown measures five-eighths of an inch, and it was not alone. Every group fired went well under one inch, even after the barrel heated up in the one-hundred degree heat and high humidity. Winds were dead still in the hollow between the ridges of my shooting range, and the accuracy of this SCAR was so consistent as to border on monotony. Again, even with the commercial 308 ammo, reliability was perfect, just as it was with the military ball ammo."
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