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7.62x51 / 308 Semi-auto options

daekken said:
I nearly pulled the trigger on a Galil parts kit...
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That's one of the other parts kits I had. It was a wood forestock version, whatever that is. Can't even remember how much I sold that kit for. I do remember that those Krinkov kits sold for a ridiculous amount though. There were two of those, and the sale of those alone funded a ten-day trip to Ireland for me! :D
 
JRT said:
I think all build these days are pretty much because they can be fun to do. The idea you could build a quality rifle, even an AR15 for less money than buying a production model went away some time ago. 15 years ago when there were maybe 15 companies doing ARs, builds made a lot of sense, with the proliferation of ARs in the market builds are pretty much done for fun.
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Yeah; sadly I don't have a parts kit already on hand like 45collector did, not do I really have the tools. The only other factor I could think of would be if I could find a parts kit spec'd the way I want (carry handle, bipod capable, pref. folding stock) and could not find a model of factory in stock that matched. Unlikely. With ARs for me it's been about getting exactly what I want. If I recall I assembled my M16A1 clone cheaper than I could find a comparable one. Other than that, being able to do little things like safeties (my most recent AR has a lefty only safety made by Colt, so righties can get the short end of the stick for once). That and it breeds familiarity with rifle.
 
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45collector said:
That's one of the other parts kits I had. It was a wood forestock version, whatever that is. Can't even remember how much I sold that kit for. I do remember that those Krinkov kits sold for a ridiculous amount though. There were two of those, and the sale of those alone funded a ten-day trip to Ireland for me! :D
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Yeah, that was the same kit! I played (and still occasionally play) a lot of CounterStrike 1.6 and the Galil was my go to purchase on the T-side. I don't really like the look of the new ACE ones, etc. I would want the wood handguard plus carry handle and folding stock. I think the last ones I saw were about $500-$600 and then the receivers were $300-$400. Once you add in compliance parts and in my case tools and/or smithing, it got to be kind of too much price wise for me when I already have three 5.56 rifles. I like making things and projects, but I'm always willing to admit my limitations and I don't know if I have the fortitude to deal with doing a complete build on my own.

Sadly I don't think any kind of build parties exist (I've heard of AK ones in the past, but not a FAL or Galil) and although I've learned many things from the internet, not sure I'm confident enough to tackle this one. The only other vector I can think of would be trying to find some friends to split costs of tooling and/or reselling it afterward. Knowing me, I'd end up wanting to make something else after selling the tools.
 
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Oh man just for the sake of going down memory lane, I went back to the AK files sale threads I started about 9 years ago. Other kits I had that I completely forgot about:
AMD65
Swedish K
Walther PPk made in 1962, missing the receiver and the hammer pin.
PPS43
PPSh41
VZ58
Romanian M63
Yugo M64 and M70
Madsen light machine gun
German MG34

The Krinkovs were Yugo M92, in unissued condition. The sights still glowed. Those sold for $700 each and IIRC, I had "I'll take it" PM's within MINUTES of posting that sale thread, on 10/10/2010.
 
45collector said:
Oh man just for the sake of going down memory lane, I went back to the AK files sale threads I started about 9 years ago. Other kits I had that I completely forgot about:
AMD65
Swedish K
Walther PPk made in 1962, missing the receiver and the hammer pin.
PPS43
PPSh41
VZ58
Romanian M63
Yugo M64 and M70
Madsen light machine gun
German MG34
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Holy crap, haha. Your father sounds like he was a badass and had good taste.
 
daekken said:
Holy crap, haha. Your father sounds like he was a badass and had good taste.
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He was military, law enforcement, a history teacher, and a collector of all things "militaria" for many years. He did gun shows all over New England from the 1970's until about 2006 when his health started to fail. He passed away the day before Father's Day 2013. If you went to any of the gun shows in MA prior to 2006, you undoubtedly walked by his array of at least 6 tables of all kinds of cool stuff. He also did flea markets all over MA and NH and I started going with him to gun shows/ flea markets in the mid-eighties. He had a 1978 Dodge conversion van packed to the bubble dome with stuff. When I say anything, I mean he had anything you could think of. Badges, uniforms, swords, flare guns, helmets, muskets, bayonets, rucksacks, boots, inert grenades/landmines/ rocket launchers, parts kits of course, horse saddles, ponchos, anti aircraft gun sights, mortars... Just a HUGE collection of stuff that he was forever buying/selling/trading. So we would set up at these events for a full weekend and Saturday nights we would sleep in that old Dodge van. He would simply through tarps over all the stuff outside still sitting on tables. He had the fold out bed in back of the van and I slept in the little area in the bubble dome above the front of the cabin. That's where all the old muskets and swords were stored and I remember very well the smell up there, and would climb down from there Sunday morning covered in rust dust. Hahah.. Goddamn those were the days. I loved doing that stuff.
 
daekken said:
I know the "Voyager" series is their entry level/reduced price version, but I don't know what features they cut to make it cheaper.
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Dont know much about them tbh, just have been following along with this thread and trying my best not to impulse buy a 308 for no good reason, lol.
 
For the record, my understanding is the Voyager line uses a cast receiver instead of a forged one like their regular line.
However, I have also read that near the end, FN themselves switched to cast.
 
Well...this thread did make me check out the DSA website and I did see this
So tempting

DSA SA58 FAL 21" Israeli Light Barrel Rifle - Officer Grade Hebrew War Hammer
https://www.dsarms.com/p-17100-dsa-sa58-fal-21-israeli-light-barrel-rifle-officer-grade-hebrew-war-hammer.aspx

17100_1_.jpg
 
as 45 collector points out above, i would think an FAL with adjustable gas would suit the OP perfectly.

daekken said:
I know the "Voyager" series is their entry level/reduced price version, but I don't know what features they cut to make it cheaper.
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OP- i also found the DSA variants confusing. when i was in their shop the guys there explained the differences and they all made sense. of course i've since forgotten them. i would just call over there and get the skinny. their staff seemed very knowledgeable about their FALs, granted it's their cup of tea. the optics mounting options were variable so that's one feature i would want to choose right from the start.

they also occasionally run some crazy specials. when i was out there during last christmas they had their DSA AR BCGs for $50 each. not my favorite BCG but still dang good. they run similar specials on FAL parts. if the damn FAL wasn't on the AWB I would be deep into the platform.
 
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Squib308 said:
as 45 collector points out above, i would think an FAL with adjustable gas would suit the OP perfectly.



OP- i also found the DSA variants confusing. when i was in their shop the guys there explained the differences and they all made sense. of course i've since forgotten them. i would just call over there and get the skinny. their staff seemed very knowledgeable about their FALs, granted it's their cup of tea. the optics mounting options were variable so that's one feature i would want to choose right from the start.

they also occasionally run some crazy specials. when i was out there during last christmas they had their DSA AR BCGs for $50 each. not my favorite BCG but still dang good. they run similar specials on FAL parts. if the damn FAL wasn't on the AWB I would be deep into the platform.
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When I was in MA I wanted a FAL, but had the same issue.
I had decided to make it my first rifle when I got to NH, but an other AK and two more ARs (plus a bunch of others) got in the way.

I'd still like to try a FAL before committing but the only rental range near me that I know of doesn't have them, and no one I know personally owns one either.
 
Squib308 said:
why have you ruled out the LR-308 / AR-10? If accuracy is of concern this platform will (for the most part) school all the piston drive options.

--
Those of you who love the RFB have likely never owned one. It is typical Keltec POS that I wish I hadn't purchased. Further, Keltec only warranties original purchaser of their products. forward ejection is a complex design that manufacturers like FN may successfully execute. Keltec not so much. Why do you think the newer RDB design abandoned forward ejection? Keltec is the worst. avoid and you're welcome.

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SCAR 17 is a nice rifle, nicely overpriced too. the lightweight profile barrel helps with weight but does no favors in terms of accuracy. for half the price one could build an LR-308 that outshoots a SCAR-17.

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the DSA FALs are nice although given it's an FAL the thing is still "old-school". I have no experience with CETME pattern rifles like the PTR although people who own PTR rifles seem pleased with them. again an LR-308 can be built lighter and more accurate.
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How accurate does he need to be? I think thats a good question before ruling out guns do to accuracy. The 2 most accurate guns on the list are the SCAR and the AR10. Both will shoot MOA or better, with proper ammo and a good shooter.
It sounds like hes just buying to own, not for anything specific, all will be plenty accurate for his application. In my opinion, if hes worried about a AWB, he should go with the FAL or G3, prebans are readily available.
I had an HK91, mags were so cheap and all over the place, but that rifle was heavy as hell and kicked like a mule, destroyed brass, if you could find them 50' away.
 
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No real accuracy requirement, would be really just for range fun as I don't own any 308/7.62 NATO. Obviously more accurate is better but I'm not seeking to cloverleaf at 600yds.

Have two 30-06 M1s so figured one in 308 was kind of redundant. Shot M14/M1A plenty; it's nice but similar to M1.
AR-10 seems similar enough to AR-15 to be redundant. A friend is assembling an AR-10 so I should get a chance to try one in a month or two.

I do hear some "bad" stuff about the FAL - it's outdated, an acquired taste, etc. Another reason I'd like to try one but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
 
Here's one I don't think anyone has mentioned:

Molot VPR30803 VEPR Semi-Automatic 308 Win/7.62 NATO 23.2 10+1 Walnut Thumbhol Atlantic has them sometimes.

20660.jpg


Molot VEPR. I have one in 54R, but you can get them in .308- if you can find one in stock. Various barrel lengths are available. A little tough to find, but a very solid platform and a great high-powered blaster when using (formerly) cheap 54R. Based off of the RPK, so essentially a beefier AK. Eventually I'll probably go full poseur and put a Dragunov style stock on it. A snap to disassemble and clean if you run corrosive through it.
 
Mountain said:
Here's one I don't think anyone has mentioned:

Molot VPR30803 VEPR Semi-Automatic 308 Win/7.62 NATO 23.2 10+1 Walnut Thumbhol Atlantic has them sometimes.

20660.jpg


Molot VEPR. I have one in 54R, but you can get them in .308- if you can find one in stock. Various barrel lengths are available. A little tough to find, but a very solid platform and a great high-powered blaster when using (formerly) cheap 54R. Based off of the RPK, so essentially a beefier AK. Eventually I'll probably go full poseur and put a Dragunov style stock on it. A snap to disassemble and clean if you run corrosive through it.
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Yeah, if I could find one...I kept poking a friend of mine who loves 308 to get one, but he waited too long and with the import situation, they are big bucks if you can find them.
 
daekken said:
Yeah, if I could find one...I kept poking a friend of mine who loves 308 to get one, but he waited too long and with the import situation, they are big bucks if you can find them.
Click to expand...

Christmas gift from Mrs. Mountain a few years ago, NIB but via an auction on Bungroker. Thought the seller had flaked out after multiple problems actually getting it shipped but in the end just an inexperienced, unorganized guy with a crappy local FFL. Zero issues. Might see what kind of accuracy I can get with some Chinese 54R that I bought from Mac. It's actually relatively accurate ammo, but probably corrosive.

Mine looks more like this with the POSP scope:

6878011001_4c991e282e_b.jpg
 
Mountain said:
Christmas gift from Mrs. Mountain a few years ago, NIB but via an auction on Bungroker. Thought the seller had flaked out after multiple problems actually getting it shipped but in the end just an inexperienced, unorganized guy with a crappy local FFL. Zero issues. Might see what kind of accuracy I can get with some Chinese 54R that I bought from Mac. It's actually relatively accurate ammo, but probably corrosive.

Mine looks more like this with the POSP scope:

6878011001_4c991e282e_b.jpg
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Norinco=cat piss smelling , bore eating primers and clad in some sort of stuff.....but shoots good.
I wish I had some of my norinco 223 left. Love to see what Franco would say about it.
 
daekken said:
...People seem to like PTRs, although I heard they render brass unusable and I have heard the ergos are not on par with the FAL. For the specs of this purchase I'd put it maybe #2 behind the FAL in my list; they're fairly obtainable and magazines are plentiful and cheap...
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I, subjectively, dislike the handling on the PTRs. You know when you pick a gun up and just don't bond with it? That's me and the PTR. They look interesting, but... The FAL clones have better ergos, IMO, than G3 clones.

daekken said:
I know the "Voyager" series is their entry level/reduced price version, but I don't know what features they cut to make it cheaper.
Click to expand...

daekken said:
For the record, my understanding is the Voyager line uses a cast receiver instead of a forged one like their regular line.
However, I have also read that near the end, FN themselves switched to cast.
Click to expand...

So the difference, as far as I've read, in the quality of FAL receivers isn't so much cast versus forged. It's more who made the receivers for DSA. DSA used to outsource receiver production to Lewis Machine and Tool. LMT made forged receivers. Then DSA brought receiver production in-house in the 2000s-ish and QC went down. People on ARFCOM post that DSA-made guns are fine functionally, but their stripped receivers suffer from QC issues. On FALFiles, the guy who runs Arizona Response Systems posted about how poor he thinks DSA-made receivers are from a specs point of view. Hopefully you've been reading up on FAL receivers.

Shoot me a PM if you get a chance, I'll be in NH on Friday and I have a couple weeks off until Memorial Day.
 
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daekken said:
Yeah, if I could find one...I kept poking a friend of mine who loves 308 to get one, but he waited too long and with the import situation, they are big bucks if you can find them.
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I know your on a "assault weapon" style but you could go a bit retro
browning BAR - modern "hunting" rifle.
Remington 740,742,750,7400
 
I understand the OPs stipulation but this is all kinda crazy... if I had the $$ for it no doubt Id consider a SCAR in 7.62 NATO... but then Id probably opt for a high end "AR10" instead, ie Daniel Defense or Barret...

Given you dont have the $$ the best thing for a quality maintable rifle is going to be a DPMS pattern big bore AR (not the brand just saying the pattern)... if you buy them during one of the frequent 15% sales, an Aero M5 runs about 1k before optics..

The big ARs may look similar but they are way different to shoot and like small ARs you have lots of growing room and support with different caliber and applications in uppers (ie a 16 inch .308 for blasting with a red dot and a 22 inch 6.5 creed with a scope for the long game for instance, stocks, high end barrels, adjustable gas blocks, buffer springs, triggers, etc and easily available reasonably priced magpul mags)..

It is the most practical thing - big bore ARs just make sense.
 
teamRR said:
I understand the OPs stipulation but this is all kinda crazy... if I had the $$ for it no doubt Id consider a SCAR in 7.62 NATO... but then Id probably opt for a high end "AR10" instead, ie Daniel Defense or Barret...

Given you dont have the $$ the best thing for a quality maintable rifle is going to be a DPMS pattern big bore AR (not the brand just saying the pattern)... if you buy them during one of the frequent 15% sales, an Aero M5 runs about 1k before optics..

The big ARs may look similar but they are way different to shoot and like small ARs you have lots of growing room and support with different caliber and applications in uppers (ie a 16 inch .308 for blasting with a red dot and a 22 inch 6.5 creed with a scope for the long game for instance, stocks, high end barrels, adjustable gas blocks, buffer springs, triggers, etc and easily available reasonably priced magpul mags)..

It is the most practical thing - big bore ARs just make sense.
Click to expand...

I guess the question is why buy a .308 semi-auto? If you actually intend to use the gun for a practical purpose, sure, the AR10 is the best platform that's less expensive than the SCAR. Arguably, the AR10 is more practical than the SCAR, considering now that Brownell's sells the BRN10 if OP wants a retro rifle.

I can't think of anything a Tavor or PTR or CETME would objectively do better than an AR, SCAR, or FAL. The G3 and CETME are 70 year old designs. Another idea might be the Desert Tech MDR. InRange initially had issues with the MDR but got them straightened out after working with the manufacturer.

But if this is a buy based on the feels, just buy what you want (including a SCAR, could buy one used or save up) and damn the defiant, full speed ahead.



 

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