7.62 vs 5.56 AR Style rifle

[cygnus x-1]

Ok, I am actively on the hunt for an AR style rifle and this is the newest question I have. I have a Savage .308 rifle and thought to myself, hey why not get an AR in .308 so that I don't have to have different ammo around. Any experience or input on this? Pro's, con's, Etc?? Thanks guys.

 

[saltydude]

An AR-10 rifle in .308 can be a fun & powerful platform. The .308 will give You substantial range over 5.56. Some cons would be cost, availability & capacity. AR-10's & ammo for them can be expensive, harder to find & typically hold 20 comapred to 30 rounds.
I haven't shot my AR-15 in quite some time because it doesn't really do it for me any more. It's extreeme speed, low recoil, blast in my face & whimpy 55GR bullets just don't exite me the way it used to. It boils down to personall preference.

 

[Gadsden]

I was looking at heavily at the AR-308 platform and decided I would wait until a decent (and affordable!) piston-driven system comes out.. until then I am looking at the M1A over the AR platform.

 

[andy t]

If you don't have any AR's, I would recommend getting a quality AR in .223. .308 AR's are not the most reliable weapons and are more of fun gun than dead on reliable firearm.
If you are interested in precision shooting there are plenty of precision AR's available as well, and the ammo is cheaper too.

 

[not new guy]

.308 AR's are not the most reliable weapons and are more of fun gun than dead on reliable firearm.

Seriously?

 

[knucklehead]

Have you looked into getting a FN/FAL clone?

 

[gillis51]

Seriously?

I've got over 4000 rounds down mine with zero missfires. I don't know about your comment about 308 AR's being un-reliable.

 

[not new guy]

It wasn't my comment (for the record). Not by a long shot.

 

[Gadsden]

I've got over 4000 rounds down mine with zero missfires. I don't know about your comment about 308 AR's being un-reliable.

Good to know. How many rounds between cleaning? How messy was the bolt when it came cleaning time?

 

[Tim94gt]

Although I agree with the concept of using the same caliber, I would go for the 5.56 AR-15. It will be a lot cheaper and still very much fun. Either way, I'm sure you will enjoy your purchase.

 

[KMM696]

Another vote for 5.56, if it's your first AR. Cheaper to buy, shoot (22LR upper!) and modify; better parts variety as the design is more standardized than the 308; preban hicap mags easy to find (if that affects your location).

That said, I really like my AR in 308. It did cost roughly twice what a similar 5.56 build would have, though. Shoots much softer than I expected, too. By the second mag I had my nose back on the charging handle. I solved the preban hi-cap question by using a CMMG G3 mag lower.

Not my only AR, either. The rest are 556, and if someone made me get rid of all but one, I'd keep one of them, not the 308.

 

[gillis51]

100-200 each time. Would clean it after each trip and spend about 20-30 minutes with q-tips, pipe cleaners, tooth brush and patches and a good solvent. My ar still is more accurate than I am, I'm by no means a precision shooter but am able to place 5 out of 5 of mill surplus in a 1 1/2" or less circle at 100 yds with no effort.

 

[andy t]

Seriously?

No i'm just joking . A few been there done that people that used these .308 pattern AR's in anger hold that opinion about the existing rifles on the market.
Knights is coming out with a .308 AR that may be work looking into if you don't mind paying Knight's price.

 

[M1911]

An AR-10 rifle in .308 can be a fun & powerful platform. The .308 will give You substantial range over 5.56. Some cons would be cost, availability & capacity. AR-10's & ammo for them can be expensive, harder to find & typically hold 20 comapred to 30 rounds.

AR-10s are also bigger and heavier than AR-15s. I have a relatively early AR10A4. It is easy to not get the magazines completely seated. When that happens, your first shot fires, the jolt drops the magazine down enough that the second round is never picked up.

If I had to use one of my rifles for a social occasion, I'd grab one of my AR15s or my M1A before my AR10. YMMV.

 

[Gadsden]

100-200 each time. Would clean it after each trip and spend about 20-30 minutes with q-tips, pipe cleaners, tooth brush and patches and a good solvent. My ar still is more accurate than I am, I'm by no means a precision shooter but am able to place 5 out of 5 of mill surplus in a 1 1/2" or less circle at 100 yds with no effort.

Cool, thanks for the info. I would be curious how it would do after 600+ rounds between cleanings.
I have basically been teetering between FAL, M1A, and AR308 platforms. The "Loaded" M1A seems to be in the lead for me.. I need to do more research on the FAL. I was looking at this DPMS:
http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=4852
With fluted/threaded barrel, A3 upper with forward assist, and free float handguard

Ahh.. decisions, decisions.

 

[M1911]

Cool, thanks for the info. I would be curious how it would do after 600+ rounds between cleanings.
I have basically been teetering between FAL, M1A, and AR308 platforms. The "Loaded" M1A seems to be in the lead for me.. I need to do more research on the FAL. I was looking at this DPMS:
http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=4852
With fluted/threaded barrel, A3 upper with forward assist, and free float handguard

I've got all three. It really is a matter of personal preference.

To me, the FAL feels very unbalanced and nose heavy. The front handguard seems way out there, and I just can't use it effectively offhand. The FAL trigger is fair, at best, and the sights just suck. FAL magazines are cheap, but I can tell you that it is a bit disconcerting when on your first shot, the base plate comes off your FAL magazine and drops the 19 remaining rounds at your feet. Scoping a FAL isn't particularly great. You use a scope mount dust cover that either gets in the way of cleaning or you take it off and have to rezero.

Some folks say the FAL's adjustable gas system is a good thing. I disagree entirely. If you have the gas system closed too much (putting too much power to the piston), your extractor can rip off the rim of the cartridge on extraction. You now have a poorly shaped club. If you have the gas system open too wide (putting too little power to the piston), your bolt carrier can short stroke, resulting in partial extraction of the cartridge case, which can then jam between the bolt carrier and the dust cover. I haven't experienced the prior failure (case failure), but I have personally experienced the latter jam, and had to have a gunsmith unjam the gun. Yes, the jam was my fault, because I didn't have the gas system properly adjusted, but the gas systems of the M1A and AR10 don't need to be adjusted -- they just work. I prefer simpler systems that just work to more complex systems that I can screw up.

The AR10 flattop is the most easily scoped of the three. It comes with excellent AR sights. You can install a myriad of excellent AR triggers. Mine has had the reliability issues described above. The balance of the AR10 feels a bit off for me. Again a bit long and heavy. I consider mine to be a range toy, nothing more. Perhaps other 7.62 ARs are more reliable.

The M1A has an excellent trigger and outstanding sights right out of the box. Mine is quite accurate. Scoping an M1A is a bit of a challenge. There are scope mounts for the M1A, but the good ones are quite expensive and the cheap ones aren't any good. M14 magazines are expensive and harder to find these days, but they are probably some of the best magazines ever made -- very stout. My M1A has been very reliable, more so than my AR10 or FAL. I find the M1A to feel the best balanced of the three when shooting offhand. I don't like the position of the safety on the M1A.

Of the three, I prefer the M1A. But other folks feel differently.

 

[PantherarmsAR10]

Well if you are even in the Southern NH area you are more than welcome to try out my DPMS LR308.. I love it and have not regretted it.. the ammo is a bit pricey but if you already have a 308 bolt then you already now about the prices. If your coming to the Frosty shoot just look for me and you can take it for a spin..

 

[not new guy]

Bump for more opinions.

I've been looking for something in .308 but haven't been able to decide if it should be a FAL, an M1A or an AR.

I'm also starting to second guess the .308 decision, based mainly on the fact that so many people on here go the AR15 route. I understand they're cheaper to buy and run, and they're more flexible from a build and accessory standpoint, but I'm questioning whether the round is "enough" for something like a shtf situation.

Thoughts?

 

[M1911]

I'm also starting to second guess the .308 decision, based mainly on the fact that so many people on here go the AR15 route. I understand they're cheaper to buy and run, and they're more flexible from a build and accessory standpoint, but I'm questioning whether the round is "enough" for something like a shtf situation.

With the right ammunition and a 16" barrel, 5.56 is fine within 150 yards. At longer ranges (150+ yards) with shorter barrels, the reduced velocity does apparently reduce lethality (the round doesn't yaw after impact and break at the cannelure, like it does when it is moving faster).

What is the likelihood that you'll need to make 150+ yard shots or shoot through cover? Compare that to the likelihood that you would be using it at short range inside your home, and consider the easier mobility of a smaller, shorter, lighter rifle. I think that the odds are more likely that you would need the gun for home defense against a crackhead than a Red Dawn situation.

My default answer to questions like "should I get A or B" is "get both", and that answer holds for this question as well. Get a 5.56 and a 7.62. But I'd get the 5.56 first.

 

[Gadsden]

Hrm.. I wonder if another option would be a modded Saiga-.308? A bit of a pain to convert, but you would have a .308 with a reliable AK action and easy scoping options...

 

[M1911]

Cool, thanks for the info. I would be curious how it would do after 600+ rounds between cleanings.
I have basically been teetering between FAL, M1A, and AR308 platforms. The "Loaded" M1A seems to be in the lead for me.. I need to do more research on the FAL. I was looking at this DPMS:
http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=4852

Skip DPMS. They don't have a terribly good reputation.

 

[bpm990d]

... but I'm questioning whether the round is "enough" for something like a shtf situation.

Thoughts?

You can navel gaze about stuff like this and it's kind of fun but seriously; the armed forces have been killing enemy soldiers DEAD for over forty years with 5.56mm.

B

 

[not new guy]

With the right ammunition and a 16" barrel, 5.56 is fine within 150 yards. At longer ranges (150+ yards) with shorter barrels, the reduced velocity does apparently reduce lethality (the round doesn't yaw after impact and break at the cannelure, like it does when it is moving faster).

What is the likelihood that you'll need to make 150+ yard shots or shoot through cover? Compare that to the likelihood that you would be using it at short range inside your home, and consider the easier mobility of a smaller, shorter, lighter rifle. I think that the odds are more likely that you would need the gun for home defense against a crackhead than a Red Dawn situation.

My default answer to questions like "should I get A or B" is "get both", and that answer holds for this question as well. Get a 5.56 and a 7.62. But I'd get the 5.56 first.

A shotgun and/or a .45 will cover home defense, I have Red Dawn in mind.

Both would be nice, but finances force me to pick just one for the foreseeable future.

You can navel gaze about stuff like this and it's kind of fun but seriously; the armed forces have been killing enemy soldiers DEAD for over forty years with 5.56mm.

B

Noted. But then you hear stories of some soldiers complaining that a 5.56mm won't get through a car windshield (for example), and that a 7.62 will.

On the one hand I don't plan on trying to hit things at 600yds, but on the other I don't mind paying a little more up front and per round, and if I'm only going to get one I'm wondering if it makes more sense to get the 7.62.

 

[Admin]

Go big or go home.

http://larueobr.com/

 

[PatMcD]

Skip DPMS. They don't have a terribly good reputation.

Not in my experience. The LR308 I had was very reliable and the most accurate semi-auto 308 I've owned.

 

[bpm990d]

Windshields? Soldiers dealing with R.O.P. jihadis, yeah ok that makes sense in some scenarios.

If I was writing an operational needs document for SHTF, windshields would be on page 356, sub-paragraph 24, Section Z of the fourth revision to Appendix 11.

I believe Trophy Bonded 7.62 preforms well in intermediate barrier tests, so if windshields is the question, a 7.62MM is the answer unless you can procure some Mk 318.

B

 

[colt_fan]

Not in my experience. The LR308 I had was very reliable and the most accurate semi-auto 308 I've owned.

in terms of reliability are you firing the rifle stock?

between my AR-10 and M1A, my M1A is more reliable than the AR-10 if it's run dirty. I tend to have FTEs on the AR-10 if I don't clean it after every shoot. but my AR-10 is an Armalite and not a DPMS.

 

[M1911]

Both would be nice, but finances force me to pick just one for the foreseeable future.

If your finances are constrained, then you definitely want to go 5.56. Both the rifle and the ammo will be much less expensive.

 

[Twigg]

But then you hear stories of some soldiers complaining that a 5.56mm won't get through a car windshield (for example), and that a 7.62 will.

On the one hand I don't plan on trying to hit things at 600yds, but on the other I don't mind paying a little more up front and per round, and if I'm only going to get one I'm wondering if it makes more sense to get the 7.62.

If anyone has any doubts as to what a [STRIKE]Poodle Shooter[/STRIKE] AR-15 can do I'd suggest coming to the The Village Idiot Memorial VNA Fundraiser and see for yourself !

Even if you're not planning on trying to shoot things at 600 yards I'd suggest attending one of the two full distance Appleseeds (July 10-11 & September 11-12) scheduled for this year in Jericho, Vt. We'll show you how to get hits out to 400 yards and time permitting we'll make use of the 600 yard line as well.

Discussion of the event is here.

Event Information & Registration here.

 

[Kenny474]

I am completely out of my league, as I have no personal experience, but what about an AR 15 chambered in 6.8SPC, 7.62x39, 6mmAR or one of the other new chamberings developed for the AR platform? Most will exceed the 5.56 in knock down power and will still operate in a standard AR. The 7.62x39 has comparable ballistics with the 30/30, which has been taking down big game for a long time, so it should surely handle a human. There are plenty of options for a compact rifle that still has plenty of power to get the job done. You also have the whole WSSM line that can be chambered in the AR, and they are very powerful rounds. A .243 WSSM would far surpass the 5.56 in downrange energy, and not require a long barrel for good performance and still give excellent accuracy. As all the benchrester's claim "short and fat is where it's at" when it comes to accuracy.

I think the .308 would be drastic overkill for home protection, as now you will be launching a very powerful round that is apt to pose a severe over-penetration issue. I feel something a bit more tame will reduce the risk of bullets going far beyond their intended target, as that could pose serious issues in a residential area.

Also, 7.62x39 ammo is very affordable, especially when compared to .308.