6.5 Creedmoor precision rifle choices?

zeroed my LRP 2.0 today, at 100yds. an amazing rifle, it is a total pleasure to shoot.
at the end i was able to do a group of 5 all inside of the red diamond bullseye of the target, all in or touching red - not a true sub-MOA _yet_ , but, the best i could do, at this moment.
just finished cleaning it.

bergara.jpg
 
zeroed my LRP 2.0 today, at 100yds. an amazing rifle, it is a total pleasure to shoot.
at the end i was able to do a group of 5 all inside of the red diamond bullseye of the target, all in or touching red - not a true sub-MOA _yet_ , but, the best i could do, at this moment.
just finished cleaning it.

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What ammo were you using? My Bergara really loves the Hornady Match 6.5 Creedmoor Ammo 140 Grain Extremely Low Drag.
 
What ammo were you using? My Bergara really loves the Hornady Match 6.5 Creedmoor Ammo 140 Grain Extremely Low Drag.
ammo now is scarce, so i use that i can get. today we used 'sellier&bellot' 140gr., #sb65a. it seemed to be pretty consistent, at 100yds that was available.
i have no access yet to 300yds.
 
ammo now is scarce, so i use that i can get. today we used 'sellier&bellot' 140gr., #sb65a. it seemed to be pretty consistent, at 100yds that was available.
i have no access yet to 300yds.
If you get access to any match grade ammo I’ll wager that you’ll see those sub MOA groups :) .
 
If you get access to any match grade ammo I’ll wager that you’ll see those sub MOA groups :) .
I was surprised btw - tavor on a bipod did really bad groups. Really loose, almost 6”. When I started using a sand bag instead it went to what it should had been, but on a bipod it was really all around the target. And it was moving a lot, with bipod.
 
I was surprised btw - tavor on a bipod did really bad groups. Really loose, almost 6”. When I started using a sand bag instead it went to what it should had been, but on a bipod it was really all around the target. And it was moving a lot, with bipod.
I’ve never used a bipod on the Tavor, when zeroing an optic on it I just use a cheap MTM Predator Shooting Rest PSR-30, $40 on Amazon. That seems to work fine.
 
I’ve never used a bipod on the Tavor, when zeroing an optic on it I just use a cheap MTM Predator Shooting Rest PSR-30, $40 on Amazon. That seems to work fine.
I started with a bipod and sand bag under the stock, and it was weird. Some shots would go left, some to the right, for no obvious reason.
My sponsor was there, tried too and got same results. Then I ditched bipod, moved sandbag under the front grip, sling on, pressed stock into a shoulder hard - and it started grouping way better, about 2 moa.
Bergara on a same bipod performed perfectly well. Odd. May be it was a gas tube movement, or ejection impact, dunno.
 
I was surprised btw - tavor on a bipod did really bad groups. Really loose, almost 6”. When I started using a sand bag instead it went to what it should had been, but on a bipod it was really all around the target. And it was moving a lot, with bipod.
what bipod on the Tavor, friend has this silly bipod that mounts on the forward grip. Its a f***ing balancing act. Only reason i could see this bipod in use is if you had a Auto Tavor and decided to run some suppressing fire or accuracy by dispersion.
If your not used to prone with optics and bipods/sandbags it takes a bit to get settled and comfortable behind the rifle.
Theres just nothing like a large solid sand bag.
I like infield mix myself but its getting harder to find good old burlap bags. I might have to see what the local fabric place has for heavy duty synthetic fabric and see if my mom will stitch up some bags?
 
I started with a bipod and sand bag under the stock, and it was weird. Some shots would go left, some to the right, for no obvious reason.
My sponsor was there, tried too and got same results. Then I ditched bipod, moved sandbag under the front grip, sling on, pressed stock into a shoulder hard - and it started grouping way better, about 2 moa.
Bergara on a same bipod performed perfectly well. Odd. May be it was a gas tube movement, or ejection impact, dunno.

If you want to see how accurate the Bergara will shoot, I suggest temporarily removing the bipod and using a sandbag. If a friend has a bench rest, even better.

I realize tough to find components right now but I very strongly suggest learning to reload if you want to do precision shooting often. With decent ammo and practice, that rifle is probably closer to 1/2 MOA than it is to 1 MOA. Otherwise keep your eyes peeled for reasonably priced (for 2020) ammo. I've found S&B OK for 2-3 MOA milsurp shooting but wouldn't expect better than minute of deer vital area from their 6.5 CM ammo.
 
I have a Tikka T3x Lite Stainless 6.5 left hand on the way. First left handed rifle I will have ever owned. Let’s see how it works for me... I’m so used to just using right handed rifles left handed
 
If you want to see how accurate the Bergara will shoot, I suggest temporarily removing the bipod and using a sandbag. If a friend has a bench rest, even better.

I realize tough to find components right now but I very strongly suggest learning to reload if you want to do precision shooting often. With decent ammo and practice, that rifle is probably closer to 1/2 MOA than it is to 1 MOA. Otherwise keep your eyes peeled for reasonably priced (for 2020) ammo. I've found S&B OK for 2-3 MOA milsurp shooting but wouldn't expect better than minute of deer vital area from their 6.5 CM ammo.
i have saved all my 6.5CM brass and will definitely learn to reload. it is a sub-MOA rifle for sure, so it is definitely me who can only do a 1moa with it now. :) and even that felt quite amazing, i got to tell, 3 out of 5 shots went into the almost same hole, edges connected. overall whole group was all in the diamond, that for a first ever shoot was, i think, an acceptably good result.

with a tavor - i will need to understand its movements better. it was really odd as sometimes using a bipod on a recoil it would jump either to the right, the rifle itself, or to the left.
sponsor also noticed that shells sometimes would fly at 90deg or bit forward or sometimes well totally backward to the car behind the bench.
i wonder now if it would help to replace the bouncer part (or whatever its name is) behind the ejector window, to enforce the same ejection pattern, I did not want to bother with it, to be honest.
plus, if i handle the rifle firmly - i do not think this ejection pattern even matters, dunno.
 
i have saved all my 6.5CM brass and will definitely learn to reload. it is a sub-MOA rifle for sure, so it is definitely me who can only do a 1moa with it now. :) and even that felt quite amazing, i got to tell, 3 out of 5 shots went into the almost same hole, edges connected. overall whole group was all in the diamond, that for a first ever shoot was, i think, an acceptably good result.

with a tavor - i will need to understand its movements better. it was really odd as sometimes using a bipod on a recoil it would jump either to the right, the rifle itself, or to the left.
sponsor also noticed that shells sometimes would fly at 90deg or bit forward or sometimes well totally backward to the car behind the bench.
i wonder now if it would help to replace the bouncer part (or whatever its name is) behind the ejector window, to enforce the same ejection pattern, I did not want to bother with it, to be honest.
plus, if i handle the rifle firmly - i do not think this ejection pattern even matters, dunno.

Don't forget that group size is measured via outer edge of the two most distant holes minus diameter of the bullet. MOA = group in inches divided by 1.04 per every 100 yards. A 1 MOA group at 200 yards = 2.08".
 
Have you checked out the badrock rifle made by defiance machine or the new Springfield with the sweet AG composite stock
i just looked at the site - BadRock Precision Rifles South Fork - Firearms for tactical and target use.
at the first glance looks very similar to the XLR element 3.0 chassis that i got on my bergara. and price is pretty much the same.
i bet they all perform comparably. i am very happy with what i got - action is creamy smooth, chassis is excellent, 2lbs trigger, very nice and intuitive.
i was able to tune and adjust everything i wanted, as i wanted. also got a folding adapter on it, it is exactly as i envisioned it all. now need to get proper membership process completed, get access to 300yds range and start practicing with it. then will see how it will continue.
 
Don't forget that group size is measured via outer edge of the two most distant holes minus diameter of the bullet. MOA = group in inches divided by 1.04 per every 100 yards. A 1 MOA group at 200 yards = 2.08".
i was at a 100yds, a center red diamond is 1", its sides are 3/4". should have taken a picture of it, but, we were trying to get a lot of stuff done. :)
 
I’ve never used a bipod on the Tavor, when zeroing an optic on it I just use a cheap MTM Predator Shooting Rest PSR-30, $40 on Amazon. That seems to work fine.
btw - compliments and gratitude again to you for suggesting the components.

we actually zeroed the rifle, then i had a brainfart episode, and we took scope off the rail to see how it will feel moved a bit in front - then i reverted to the stock and added 7mm to LOP and we mounted scope back - cursing and expecting having to re-zero the rifle. and after that i did that 1moa group, right into the bullseye - means those expensive rings and rail are indeed milled very precise, it did not require ANY alterations at all.
 
btw - compliments and gratitude again to you for suggesting the components.

we actually zeroed the rifle, then i had a brainfart episode, and we took scope off the rail to see how it will feel moved a bit in front - then i reverted to the stock and added 7mm to LOP and we mounted scope back - cursing and expecting having to re-zero the rifle. and after that i did that 1moa group, right into the bullseye - means those expensive rings and rail are indeed milled very precise, it did not require ANY alterations at all.
My pleasure, I’m just glad it’s all working for you. Nothing worse than recommending something and then having it turn out to not work for the person acting on your advice.
 
FWIW, one MOA is good, really. Ignoring all other effects, that's approximately 10 inches at 1K. Better than IPSC.

Much of the improvement to bring this under the 1 MOA will be technique and tuning. For instance scope ring height will amplify the effect of 'cant' which, I'd suggest, will have a greater effect on precision than having 'normal' velocity variation round-to-round. It's easy to have the rifle cant shift round-to-round without even realizing it. Removing this source of error is entirely tuning and technique.

I think you'll discover, as you practice, all sorts of variables that will effect the point of impact. Many of which will not have anything to do with the actual ammunition or the inherent precision of that particular rifle. For instance, take a look at some of the competitors. Look at where their thumb is placed on their trigger hand. You may notice some have an odd placement and are purposefully not grasping the stock with the thumb. This not by mistake. What happens with your thumb when you sqeeeeuuuuze the trigger. With each technique learned, they are removing a small source of potential error.

It's cool, it's challenging, and it is what makes long-distance precision so compelling. Many variables to consider. Reloading is a key piece to the equation for a number of reasons though I believe that you'll be able to pull this under the 1 MOA with factory rounds on that chassis.
 
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This is my setup. Hadn’t shot it yet. I will be reloading for it just waiting on a few more things. Defiance tenacity, benchmark barrel, ag composite stock and trigger tech trigger.
 

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FWIW, one MOA is good, really. Ignoring all other effects, that's approximately 10 inches at 1K. Better than IPSC.

Much of the improvement to bring this under the 1 MOA will be technique and tuning. For instance scope ring height will amplify the effect of 'cant' which, I'd suggest, will have a greater effect on precision than having 'normal' velocity variation round-to-round. It's easy to have the rifle cant shift round-to-round without even realizing it. Removing this source of error is entirely tuning and technique.

I think you'll discover, as you practice, all sorts of variables that will effect the point of impact. Many of which will not have anything to do with the actual ammunition or the inherent precision of that particular rifle. For instance, take a look at some of the competitors. Look at where their thumb is placed on their trigger hand. You may notice some have an odd placement and are purposefully not grasping the stock with the thumb. This not by mistake. What happens with your thumb when you sqeeeeuuuuze the trigger. With each technique learned, they are removing a small source of potential error.

It's cool, it's challenging, and it is what makes long-distance precision so compelling. Many variables to consider. Reloading is a key piece to the equation for a number of reasons though I believe that you'll be able to pull this under the 1 MOA with factory rounds on that chassis.

I generally agree. However, shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards is easy with a precision rifle, good optics, good ammo, and a reasonable skill set. Shooting 1 MOA at 1,000 yards is a different story. It's like using the same bat to hit a ball off of a tee in T-ball vs. hitting a ball pitched by Roger Clemens.

It ain't the bat. ;)
 
as i am still on this topic - and just ordered from amazon a 6.5 sized set of brass bristles - do you use brass or nylon bore brushes on your rifles?
i would not think a brass brush would not be of any issue for a precision barrel - why would it?

we went over 40 shots yesterday, i wanted to see the condition, and barrel was pretty decently dirty. in fact, dirtier than a tavor after 160 shots. go figure.
do you usually clean it after 100 shots or 50 or, dunno, 200? a usual hoppe`s #9 bore cleaner ok?
 
I generally agree. However, shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards is easy with a precision rifle, good optics, good ammo, and a reasonable skill set. Shooting 1 MOA at 1,000 yards is a different story. It's like using the same bat to hit a ball off of a tee in T-ball vs. hitting a ball pitched by Roger Clemens.

It ain't the bat. ;)

I agree, it was an attempt at generalization of the problem. Maybe simplistic. First steps tackling fundamentals. Then, work building the consistency such that the correctable sources of error are minimized. Shrinking 1 MOA to 3/4 in a consistent manner on the same platform tends to say to me there has been an improvement in technique. Preferably prior to reaching out (when a whole new set of problems to solve appear, otherwise confusion). If these things aren't worked on up front, frustration and uncertainty likely at the longer distances (maybe 600+).

I'd think most anyone here have pretty decent fundamentals but then getting to the next step gets interesting... BTW, not implying anything towards the OP, just thinking this through.
 
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do you usually clean it after 100 shots or 50 or, dunno, 200?

It seems to me that most have their own regimen with some never cleaning anything ever. Lot's of different theories, too. Lot's of different theories around breaking in a barrel.

Personally, I usually run cloth patches after each trip. Mild cleaner (for a long session), then some light oil until patch is relatively clear, then dry patch, then put away. When pulling a patch, you can feel if there is something weird. Occasionally inspect for things such as a carbon ring (have yet to worry about this). I generally don't scrub or look to remove copper fouling. Personal preference.
 
I generally don't scrub or look to remove copper fouling. Personal preference.
i see, ok. as i mostly shoot tula now from all other guns i got i need to scrub as tula leaves a ton of dirt.
i guess i can get also a set of nylon brushes for this bergara, it is just a $5 after all.
 
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