If someone moving into Massachusetts has a non "AWB" compliant AR. Could he sell off the upper out of state and legally move into Mass with just the lower? (Even though the lower may have come from a factory non AWB rifle)
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- Thread starter vellnueve
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IANAL, but IMO, yes.
It should be noted that the EOPSS/Glidden interpretation is "once an AW, always an AW", and there is anecdotal evidence of LE contacting manufacturers to determine original configuration, in an effort to prosecute.
It should be noted that the EOPSS/Glidden interpretation is "once an AW, always an AW", and there is anecdotal evidence of LE contacting manufacturers to determine original configuration, in an effort to prosecute.
IANAL, but I would think yes, if it does not violate the AWB upon crossing the MA boarder then I believe you can put a new upper on or have it made compliant.
I know at least one gun shop in NH that modifies their AR15's to be AWB compliant for MA residents to purchase (they are very close to the boarder)
I have a pretty basic question that doesn't seem to warrant a new thread. I have a Stag Arms model 1 AR-15 which I currently must store out-of-state. I originally didn't have hope that I could ever bring it in MA but now I understand that with a few modifications, I can make it legal. I have three main questions to that end.
a) How does one pin the collapsible stock in the fully extended position to make it a non-collapsible stock? Can this be done simply and legally on my own or do I need to take it to a smith?
b) Is that a muzzle brake or a flash suppressor on the end of my typical Stag Arms model 1 AR-15? It's welded on, so in my understanding I'll have to either make sure it's not a flash suppressor or replace the barrel completely.
c) Am I allowed to take it into MA disassembled? Perhaps it's not a banned "assault weapon" if it's not even in one piece (assuming I leave high cap magazines in a free state).
The last thing I need is a gun felony. Your thoughts are much appreciated.
a) How does one pin the collapsible stock in the fully extended position to make it a non-collapsible stock? Can this be done simply and legally on my own or do I need to take it to a smith?
b) Is that a muzzle brake or a flash suppressor on the end of my typical Stag Arms model 1 AR-15? It's welded on, so in my understanding I'll have to either make sure it's not a flash suppressor or replace the barrel completely.
c) Am I allowed to take it into MA disassembled? Perhaps it's not a banned "assault weapon" if it's not even in one piece (assuming I leave high cap magazines in a free state).
The last thing I need is a gun felony. Your thoughts are much appreciated.
cockpitbob
NES Member
Welcome RB! You have a lot of reading to do. Sorry that the search feature here doesn't work very well. Still, spend a few hours (seriously) reading here and you'll learn a lot.
My main comment is that you'll need to fill out a form FA-10 when you bring it in state (if you can bring it in).
Disassembing your own gun won't help. That may help if you are just passing through hoping the FOPA act protects you.
Hopefully someone can point you right to threads about your first 2 questions.
Good luck.
My main comment is that you'll need to fill out a form FA-10 when you bring it in state (if you can bring it in).
Disassembing your own gun won't help. That may help if you are just passing through hoping the FOPA act protects you.
Hopefully someone can point you right to threads about your first 2 questions.
Good luck.
Thank you for the warm welcome and the advice, cockpitbob! I look forward to learning as much as I can and enjoying the camaraderie around here. I've been lurking for a while and while I'm certainly no expert, I'll be taking a gun safety course and applying for a Class A LTC before I bring any guns into MA.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
Pretty sure you don't have to FA-10 a gun you bring in. Only if it is a new purchase. Don't go 100% by this, but research it before you give MA info they don't need.
Nothing in FOPA says you need to disassemble a firearm. I think only Chicago has weird "take the gun apart" laws. Over complying won't help.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
a) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLSmCug0cxI
This is the first video I found on youtube. Very easy to find info on this.
b) If you bought it in a free state, it is most likely a Flash Suppressor. Are you sure it is welded on? Have a smith un pin and remove and replace with a brake.
c) No
Why respond with legal info if you are unsure?
The above is WRONG!
Only if you moved the guns in when you moved in, that is the one exception to the FA-10 requirement. Post # 124 strongly implies that this is not the case for him.
Any you retrieve after that fact must be FA-10'd.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
That is why I said he should look into it further. As I understood it, he owned the rifle prior to moving here, and was moving it in.
How else would he legally acquire a rifle with those features that he didn't build himself?
Assuming if he had built it, he would know that he had a flash hider over a brake.
What is the window for bringing guns into MA that you own previously? Not that I really need to know, because I will never move to MA again.
Sorry but you still don't understand the laws!
ONLY if you move your guns in with your personal belongings when you move in . . . are you exempt from filing FA-10s and registering them. REAL REASON is that you need a LTC/FID # to fill out an FA-10 and there is no way you will get one within 7 days (law requires filing within 7 days of the gun crossing the MA border the first time) . . . so you can't possibly comply with that law.
You can move any guns you own that are stored outside MA at any time after you move in . . . but you must FA-10 them to register them in this case.
The law is the same for guns you build as for guns you buy or were bought fully assembled.
ONLY if you move your guns in with your personal belongings when you move in . . . are you exempt from filing FA-10s and registering them. REAL REASON is that you need a LTC/FID # to fill out an FA-10 and there is no way you will get one within 7 days (law requires filing within 7 days of the gun crossing the MA border the first time) . . . so you can't possibly comply with that law.
You can move any guns you own that are stored outside MA at any time after you move in . . . but you must FA-10 them to register them in this case.
The law is the same for guns you build as for guns you buy or were bought fully assembled.
Duxprep
NES Member
Could you cite that Please Len? According Goals website "Registration: The transfer of any resident’s handgun, shotgun or rifle, whether through a dealer or between licensed individuals must be reported to the state via the FA- 10 form available from your local police station. There is no law specifying that you must report to the state or the local licensing authority what firearms you already possess, i.e. filling out an FA-10 for your current collection or submitting a list to the local police." Perhaps I'm confusing two different issues?
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
You are correct, I don't. But how am I supposed to when the MA MIRCS website gives me bad info.
Maybe I am reading this wrong, but it says sale or transfer and even goes as far as to say acquisition. But my understanding is that the OP already owned this when he moved here.
There was no transaction to report.
The only reason I brought up a build, is that he wouldn't have been able to legally purchase an assembled rifle in AW configuration as a MA resident. I then make the leap that he wasn't a MA resident when he purchased said rifle.
Yes, don't rely on GOAL's website for any legal info. There are a number of felony-quality errors and it's also easy to get bad info from "interpretations".
Read MGL C 140 S 128B - EOPS position is that if you move a gun across the MA state line (regardless of prior ownership) that in accordance with this section it must be registered. with the sole exception of moving into MA with it amongst your possessions at that time.
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That FRB website was designed INTENTIONALLY with lots of bad info (insinuating that you must provide info you don't have to, etc.). See my cite to the actual MGL. EOPS has stated that "acquiring within MA" means also moving the gun across the state line to MA from elsewhere. This is a point that I've now personally discussed with 2 FRB Directors.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
I find it interesting that they get to have it both ways. You have spoken in other threads at great length that weapons possessed out of state must be surrendered in the case of suspension or revocation of ltc. So on the one hand, MA doesn't recognize your ownership of firearms that you already own if they are possessed across state lines, however when it comes time to confiscate them, they do.
I had to fight with Jason to get him to agree that we didn't (statutorily) have to register guns we owned ONLY outside of MA!
It's C. 140 on gun law.
It's C. 269 S. 10 on prosecuting you for failure to turn over everything if suspended/revoked/209A on you. Those two chapters of MGL don't talk to each other and there are other conflicts between them as well.
It's C. 140 on gun law.
It's C. 269 S. 10 on prosecuting you for failure to turn over everything if suspended/revoked/209A on you. Those two chapters of MGL don't talk to each other and there are other conflicts between them as well.
This is more confusing than I had hoped. One thing is sure. Toto, I don't think we're in Pennsylvania anymore!
cockpitbob
NES Member
We have an expression here to describe someone or thing that makes no sense, has gone completely insane and is the dumbest thing ever. Many decades ago MA gun laws went full retard.
If you attempt to relate any of the MA gun laws to logic or common sense you'll only confuse yourself further. Once you accept that, things get a lot easier to [STRIKE=undefined]understand[/STRIKE] remember.
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Greetings,
I will be relocating back to MA, I contacted the MA fire arms division in regarded to my AR that is Ma compliant but purchased in another state that I reside in, I was told by them that my rifle does not need to be registered but it is recommended. My question is I have the bill of sale and if don't register it and I'm stopped with it can I be in any legal trouble?
Thank you for your time
I will be relocating back to MA, I contacted the MA fire arms division in regarded to my AR that is Ma compliant but purchased in another state that I reside in, I was told by them that my rifle does not need to be registered but it is recommended. My question is I have the bill of sale and if don't register it and I'm stopped with it can I be in any legal trouble?
Thank you for your time
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So here is the scenario. . .
I move to Massachusetts in 1995 and immediately get an FID, as I was told to do. At the time I submitted my application, I asked the Local LEOs if I needed to register the guns and I was told: "No, we register the owner not the guns". The Idea was to apply for a "License to carry for all legal purposes" later. At that time I traveled extensively in my job and never knew when I could get into a training class. Three years later, with the stroke of a pen I became a (potential) criminal, when my FID (along with everyone else's) was revoked because of the 1998 gun law revamping.
Knowing I would not get a license on time, I took my firearms out of state to be put in secure storage in New Mexico, where my brother lives. Well, being out of sight and out of mind, I did not pursue a license until recently when my brother (who works for the government at Holloman AFB) had to down size due to furloughs and has told me to come get my guns.
So now I have my license and I am just back from my drive to NM, (no stopping in NY) and you tell me I have to register my firearms with the Mass Firearms REGISTRATION and transfer system. Technically I brought them here when I moved from California (where ALL of my gun purchases were made).
So, do I still have to register them via the EFA-10 forms online?
I move to Massachusetts in 1995 and immediately get an FID, as I was told to do. At the time I submitted my application, I asked the Local LEOs if I needed to register the guns and I was told: "No, we register the owner not the guns". The Idea was to apply for a "License to carry for all legal purposes" later. At that time I traveled extensively in my job and never knew when I could get into a training class. Three years later, with the stroke of a pen I became a (potential) criminal, when my FID (along with everyone else's) was revoked because of the 1998 gun law revamping.
Knowing I would not get a license on time, I took my firearms out of state to be put in secure storage in New Mexico, where my brother lives. Well, being out of sight and out of mind, I did not pursue a license until recently when my brother (who works for the government at Holloman AFB) had to down size due to furloughs and has told me to come get my guns.
So now I have my license and I am just back from my drive to NM, (no stopping in NY) and you tell me I have to register my firearms with the Mass Firearms REGISTRATION and transfer system. Technically I brought them here when I moved from California (where ALL of my gun purchases were made).
So, do I still have to register them via the EFA-10 forms online?
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So does this mean that once upon a time, LTC's were issued within a 7 day period? If so, does this now mean that stuff owned by someone moving into the state can occur over the time it takes to get the LTC with no FA-10 required? For most cases, folks usually have a move in day but I can see an instance where someone may actually own two residences (one in MA, one in a bordering state) at the same time.
My first LTC took 5 days from filling in the form until it showed up in my Mailbox! This was common in mid-1970s. I am UNSURE what the law back then was wrt moving in with guns. The law we deal with today was written in 1998.
It might be splitting hairs but if you are moving your stuff in yourself over a few days/a week my IANAL guess is that this would be moving them in when you move in. If you go back to get them weeks after you moved in, I would say that FA-10s are required. Others may agree or disagree, I doubt it has ever been tested in court with that level of granularity.
Hi All,
Just joined NES and love the site. Lots of great info. I am moving to Mass early next month from Florida and would just like to confirm my understanding of what I can and can't do and also ask a couple of questions. My collection currently consists of:
Beretta 21A Bobcat (22lr)
Ruger LC9
Ruger SR22
S&W M&P 9
S&W M&P 15 Sport
1. My understanding is that I can bring in when I move the Beretta and Rugers with no problem as they are 10 or less rounds per mag.
2. I can bring the M&P 9 when I move but I must leave the 17 round magazines in FL.
3. I can bring the M&P 15 when I move but I would need to first pin the butt stock and replace the threaded barrel with attached A2 site/bayonet mount with a bull barrel and some other site without the bayonet mount. Oh yeah and I have to leave all my 30 round mags in FL as well.
4. All of these can be done without filing any FA-10s as I will bring them with me when I move.
5. I will need to get an LTC or FID within 60 days to stay legal.
Please confim that the above is correct. If not, please let me know where I am wrong. Now here are my questions.
1. Realistically, I probably won't have time to order and swap out the barrel on the M&P 15 before I leave. That being said, would it be legal if I pin the butt stock and remove (and leave the barrel / Bayonet mount in FL) and bring the remainder of the firearm with me to Mass? The plan being to get a new Bull barrel once I am fully licensed.
2. Ammo. I have about 2000 + rounds of ammo. Combination of .556, 9MM, and .22LR. Is it a problem to bring the ammo in with me? From everything I have read as long as I get the LTC or FID within 60 days I am ok with the guns, but I haven't seen anyone specifically talk about Ammo.
Please let me know if I am missing anything.
Thanks in Advance. Although I hate the gun laws up there can't wait to get back to New England. Done with Florida.
Just joined NES and love the site. Lots of great info. I am moving to Mass early next month from Florida and would just like to confirm my understanding of what I can and can't do and also ask a couple of questions. My collection currently consists of:
Beretta 21A Bobcat (22lr)
Ruger LC9
Ruger SR22
S&W M&P 9
S&W M&P 15 Sport
1. My understanding is that I can bring in when I move the Beretta and Rugers with no problem as they are 10 or less rounds per mag.
2. I can bring the M&P 9 when I move but I must leave the 17 round magazines in FL.
3. I can bring the M&P 15 when I move but I would need to first pin the butt stock and replace the threaded barrel with attached A2 site/bayonet mount with a bull barrel and some other site without the bayonet mount. Oh yeah and I have to leave all my 30 round mags in FL as well.
4. All of these can be done without filing any FA-10s as I will bring them with me when I move.
5. I will need to get an LTC or FID within 60 days to stay legal.
Please confim that the above is correct. If not, please let me know where I am wrong. Now here are my questions.
1. Realistically, I probably won't have time to order and swap out the barrel on the M&P 15 before I leave. That being said, would it be legal if I pin the butt stock and remove (and leave the barrel / Bayonet mount in FL) and bring the remainder of the firearm with me to Mass? The plan being to get a new Bull barrel once I am fully licensed.
2. Ammo. I have about 2000 + rounds of ammo. Combination of .556, 9MM, and .22LR. Is it a problem to bring the ammo in with me? From everything I have read as long as I get the LTC or FID within 60 days I am ok with the guns, but I haven't seen anyone specifically talk about Ammo.
Please let me know if I am missing anything.
Thanks in Advance. Although I hate the gun laws up there can't wait to get back to New England. Done with Florida.
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I'm not an expert and others will comment here, except I noticed the following:
What people normally do is
a) saw off the bayonet lug
b) replace the A2 flash hider with a muzzle brake and then have it pinned and welded onto the barrel
Almost all MA gunsmiths do these things. Muzzle brakes are a-okay after they are pinned and welded onto the threaded barrel, but flash hiders (on semi auto rifles with pistol grips) are not. It's not necessary to replace the entire barrel but you can if you want.
Where will you be moving to? If it's the city of Boston (it's bigger than you may think) you'll have to store your AR elsewhere because there is a stricter assault weapon ban for Boston residents.
What people normally do is
a) saw off the bayonet lug
b) replace the A2 flash hider with a muzzle brake and then have it pinned and welded onto the barrel
Almost all MA gunsmiths do these things. Muzzle brakes are a-okay after they are pinned and welded onto the threaded barrel, but flash hiders (on semi auto rifles with pistol grips) are not. It's not necessary to replace the entire barrel but you can if you want.
Where will you be moving to? If it's the city of Boston (it's bigger than you may think) you'll have to store your AR elsewhere because there is a stricter assault weapon ban for Boston residents.
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boscru
NES Member
accurate advice. can also go with a thread protector pinned & welded. looks clean, and doesn't throw noise back at adjacent shooters. i use one, as .223/5.56 doesn't have much recoil/muzzle rise
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the info, but you have me a bit confused.
I was under the impression that I was not able to take my M&P 15 Sport as it is currently configured (bayonet mount, threaded barrel, collapsible stock) into the state and that it would need to be modified before hand. However, it sounds like you are telling me I can and have it modified after I get there. Wouldn't I effectively have an illegal gun in the state until I get it modified? If I walk into a gun store with a Mass illegal firearm wouldn't the store be required to report me?
In an ideal world I would certainly get this done before hand, however, I am moving in a week and don't have a gunsmith that I trust down here so it is not going to get done before I leave, hence the idea of just leaving the barrel.
Oh yeah, not moving to Boston. Moving to Harvard. Hoping it is still green out there.
Any info you can give would be much appreciated.
Thanks for the info, but you have me a bit confused.
I was under the impression that I was not able to take my M&P 15 Sport as it is currently configured (bayonet mount, threaded barrel, collapsible stock) into the state and that it would need to be modified before hand. However, it sounds like you are telling me I can and have it modified after I get there. Wouldn't I effectively have an illegal gun in the state until I get it modified? If I walk into a gun store with a Mass illegal firearm wouldn't the store be required to report me?
In an ideal world I would certainly get this done before hand, however, I am moving in a week and don't have a gunsmith that I trust down here so it is not going to get done before I leave, hence the idea of just leaving the barrel.
Oh yeah, not moving to Boston. Moving to Harvard. Hoping it is still green out there.
Any info you can give would be much appreciated.
No, you can't legally bring it into MA in that condition.
Wow blazing fast response!!!
Ok. So basically, if I pin the butt stock and leave the barrel in FL I should be OK to bring the rest of the gun into the state, correct?
Also, what about the ammo, is there any issue bringing 2500+ rounds of ammo into the state?
Thanks again for the info.
Ok. So basically, if I pin the butt stock and leave the barrel in FL I should be OK to bring the rest of the gun into the state, correct?
Also, what about the ammo, is there any issue bringing 2500+ rounds of ammo into the state?
Thanks again for the info.
No issue with ammo.
If you can have someone in FL get the upper massified and then ship it to you (it is not a "controlled" item) directly you'd be in business cheaply. Or you could ship the upper to a MA gunsmith (use one of the recommended ones here on NES) and retrieve it after the work is done and you move.
If you can have someone in FL get the upper massified and then ship it to you (it is not a "controlled" item) directly you'd be in business cheaply. Or you could ship the upper to a MA gunsmith (use one of the recommended ones here on NES) and retrieve it after the work is done and you move.
I might do that, thanks for the tip. And thanks for the confirmation on what I can and can't do.
Two last questions. I am under the impression that in Mass an FID is shall issue whereas an LTC is may issue. First, is that correct? And Second, assuming that it is correct, does it make any sense to apply for both so as to ensure that 60 days out I am not sitting in possession of a number of Firearms that I am not legally allowed to have if my LTC gets rejected? There is no valid reason for my LTC to get rejected, but I tend to be cautious by nature and always like to have a backup plan.
Thanks again.
Two last questions. I am under the impression that in Mass an FID is shall issue whereas an LTC is may issue. First, is that correct? And Second, assuming that it is correct, does it make any sense to apply for both so as to ensure that 60 days out I am not sitting in possession of a number of Firearms that I am not legally allowed to have if my LTC gets rejected? There is no valid reason for my LTC to get rejected, but I tend to be cautious by nature and always like to have a backup plan.
Thanks again.
