55gr or 62gr and FMJ or SP to stockpile?

[dcmdon]

That is a solid write-up! Thank you!

I had a totally different malfunction in mind when you said "sticking in a hot chamber", thinking case or round would hot glue to the chamber and it was hard to extract it. So the fresh round basically would not chamber all the way? Would they chamber with forward assist? Or was it something else?

I have no doubt that it happened, just trying to figure out exactly what and how.

My number one guess is that you ended up using rare Wolf Military Classic 223 variation that had neck sealant, while previously you were using steel ammo that did not. Build up of sealant gunk in the chamber due to round count would then cause the issues with chambering.

I didn't use the FA. I didn't have to mortar it to remove the round either. I would have remembered that. I do remember clearing the round and then the next round had the same problem. So I switched guns and during a break cleaned the chamber and lubed the BCG

I'm old and I have plenty of money. When I buy ammo, I buy a lot. So this was not a new batch that I hadn't used before. It was the same stuff that I had used many times before when practicing inside 50 yards. My LMT shot 4-5 MOA with this stuff and a LPVO when turned up to 4x and benched at 100 yards.

It was accurate enough for carbine type practice, cheap, and under normal circumstances reliable. After this and another experience I had with another person having trouble at an Academi carbine class, I stopped using it. It wasn't that long ago that you could get 1000 rounds M193 for $300. I've still got some of that left.

 

[GlockBy]

Wolf using a different sealant ?
M855 Nato IIRC necks are sealed with tar ?

See pictures below and compare neck area on the rounds. If you switch from left to right - it is likely you will gunk up your gun faster and will face stoppages earlier, with all other factors being equal.

 

[dcmdon]

My ammo did not have anything like that.

 

[GlockBy]

I didn't use the FA. I didn't have to mortar it to remove the round either. I would have remembered that. I do remember clearing the round and then the next round had the same problem. So I switched guns and during a break cleaned the chamber and lubed the BCG

I'm old and I have plenty of money. When I buy ammo, I buy a lot. So this was not a new batch that I hadn't used before. It was the same stuff that I had used many times before when practicing inside 50 yards. My LMT shot 4-5 MOA with this stuff and a LPVO when turned up to 4x and benched at 100 yards.

It was accurate enough for carbine type practice, cheap, and under normal circumstances reliable. After this and another experience I had with another person having trouble at an Academi carbine class, I stopped using it. It wasn't that long ago that you could get 1000 rounds M193 for $300. I've still got some of that left.

Well, unless the neck sealant was involved (see pics above), I would look at factors other than the heat first.

Can or no can? No changes to buffer system, gas system, bcg? Similar weather (not summer vs winter)?

I ran a few guns pretty hard with Wolf over the years (no neck sealant on any IIRC) and did not experience similar issues. But all guns are a bit different so, as always, YMMV.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Wolf using a different sealant ?
M855 Nato IIRC necks are sealed with tar ?

It's a Commie conspiracy. They want skinflint NES'ers to have malfunctions while defending our homeland from their planned invasion. After Kammie-la softens us up a bit more, first.

 

[mac1911]

It's a Commie conspiracy. They want skinflint NES'ers to have malfunctions while defending our homeland from their planned invasion. After Kammie-la softens us up a bit more, first.

I know some ammo has issues for sure.

I have shot steel cased ammo most my life
22lr Russian steel cased as a kid and I have a brick or 2 left from the last 80k rounds dad bought in the late 80s Junior branded

Then you have Hornady Steel Match . Was that a issue ?

Fun stuff

 

[GlockBy]

It's a Commie conspiracy. They want skinflint NES'ers to have malfunctions while defending our homeland from their planned invasion. After Kammie-la softens us up a bit more, first.

What did you end up stockpiling?

 

[StevieP]

I'll again suggest Federal Fusion 62gr bonded spire point ammo.

Buy Fusion Rifle 223 Rem Ammo 62 | F223FS1

Shopping for the Fusion Rifle - Learn more about the latest Fusion and other hunting or shooting gear at Federal Ammunition.

www.federalpremium.com

Speer re-sells it for police/personal defense as Gold Dot

Buy Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection 223 Rem Ammo 62 | 24461

Shopping for the Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection - Learn more about the latest Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection and other hunting, shooting or reloading gear at Speer.

www.speer.com

 

[GlockBy]

I'll again suggest Federal Fusion 62gr bonded spire point ammo.

Buy Fusion Rifle 223 Rem Ammo 62 | F223FS1

Shopping for the Fusion Rifle - Learn more about the latest Fusion and other hunting or shooting gear at Federal Ammunition.

www.federalpremium.com

Speer re-sells it for police/personal defense as Gold Dot

Buy Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection 223 Rem Ammo 62 | 24461

Shopping for the Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection - Learn more about the latest Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection and other hunting, shooting or reloading gear at Speer.

www.speer.com

If you are spending more than $1 per round, might as well get the better versions of the rounds you mentioned. That would be Fusion MSR, which is optimized for shorter barrels and has low flash propellants and actual SpeerLE Gold Dot Duty Ammunition, which has flash suppressed propellants. Personal Protection GDs might come from the same line and use the same powder, but they are not advertised as such, so I would not expect it.

That is quality ammo, and I think it is worth to have at least a basic load out of something similar. If OP has budget for 2 cases of basic stuff, I would not spend it all on defensive ammo. But might make sense to buy enough to zero, test accuracy and function, and to keep few mags loaded.

 

[Buck F]

One thing that nobody has mentioned is it's not actually the weight of the bullet that impacts the twist it needs but the LENGTH.

I was always told that girth matters more than length...

 

[Qwikdraw45]

What did you end up stockpiling?

If OP has budget for 2 cases of basic stuff, I would not spend it all on defensive ammo. But might make sense to buy enough to zero, test accuracy and function, and to keep few mags loaded.

Budget allowed for 300rds of 62gr PMC X-Tac. Yeah, I know. Big stockpile. But what I can afford, is what I can afford.

 

[G4Y4HK]

doesn't 55 grain run like dog shit thru a 1:7 twist? It's 'okay' accuracy up to 50-100 yards but really meant for a 1:9, which most modern built ARs don't do anymore. You'll need to special kit 1:8s and Wyldes these days.

 

[Agnotology]

Budget allowed for 300rds of 62gr PMC X-Tac. Yeah, I know. Big stockpile. But what I can afford, is what I can afford.

Doing better than me. I think I have.... 97 total rounds of M193.

 

[mac1911]

doesn't 55 grain run like dog shit thru a 1:7 twist? It's 'okay' accuracy up to 50-100 yards but really meant for a 1:9, which most modern built ARs don't do anymore. You'll need to special kit 1:8s and Wyldes these days.

This is highly dependent on the bullet if the bullet stays in one piece or if theres some serious defects in the core or jacket.
M193 should hold up just fine and I will
Wager group better than most shooters/rifles can hold anyway
SHTF gun tou should run everything and see how it does so you know.

 

[PappyM3]

doesn't 55 grain run like dog shit thru a 1:7 twist? It's 'okay' accuracy up to 50-100 yards but really meant for a 1:9, which most modern built ARs don't do anymore. You'll need to special kit 1:8s and Wyldes these days.

Good quality 55gr will run fine in both. Crap 55gr will often run a little worse in the faster twists.

But I mean, crap bulk 55gr still runs at 3-5 MOA (depending on the load) in my 1-7 twists. Enough for SHTF self defense at the effective ranges of M193.

 

[dcmdon]

doesn't 55 grain run like dog shit thru a 1:7 twist? It's 'okay' accuracy up to 50-100 yards but really meant for a 1:9, which most modern built ARs don't do anymore. You'll need to special kit 1:8s and Wyldes these days.

It doesn't "run like dog shit". It's not terribly accurate. Figure 4 moa.

But its terminal performance is better than 62 gr.
Here's a quick cheat sheet.

55 gr - M193 - Least expensive, Inaccurate in 1:7, but better terminal performance among standard non high tech ammo.
62 gr - M855 - More expensive, more accurate than 55 gr in 1:7, tends to have worse terminal ballistics than other types of ammo. Will defeat level 3 rated body armor

 

[G4Y4HK]

It doesn't "run like dog shit". It's not terribly accurate. Figure 4 moa.

But its terminal performance is better than 62 gr.
Here's a quick cheat sheet.

55 gr - M193 - Least expensive, Inaccurate in 1:7, but better terminal performance among standard non high tech ammo.
62 gr - M855 - More expensive, more accurate than 55 gr in 1:7, tends to have worse terminal ballistics than other types of ammo. Will defeat level 3 rated body armor

Makes me feel a lot better. I shot a new radical upper in 1:7 and best I could do was 5 MOA at 50 yards. My PSA also 1:7 could do 3 MOA with 55 grain. I should try some sierra match king see what it can do.

 

[Agnotology]

Makes me feel a lot better. I shot a new radical upper in 1:7 and best I could do was 5 MOA at 50 yards. My PSA also 1:7 could do 3 MOA with 55 grain. I should try some sierra match king see what it can do.

5 MOA? 2.5" group? Damn. Any factors affecting it? Like shooting off-hand, or using irons?

 

[G4Y4HK]

5 MOA? 2.5" group? Damn. Any factors affecting it? Like shooting off-hand, or using irons?

Just trying to sight in my 2 MOA red dot. Shoulda put in a magnifier behind it. Tough to see what I was hitting at 50 yds.

 

[Agnotology]

Just trying to sight in my 2 MOA red dot. Shoulda put in a magnifier behind it. Tough to see what I was hitting at 50 yds.

huh. Whenever Broc and I have our playdate with scopes maybe he'll throw 3 or 4 sierra match kings down my barrel just to see what you can really get out of a bargain-bin rifle and scope.

 

[PappyM3]

5 MOA? 2.5" group? Damn. Any factors affecting it? Like shooting off-hand, or using irons?

Some ammo/barrel combos are just like that.
This Rainier 1:7 mountain barrel shot (5 rnd groups) under 1 MOA with Hornady 73gr. But shot Magtech 55gr M193 to 2.6 MOA.



You say, but that’s 2.6 MOA, not 5 MOA. Yes, but it was only 5 rounds. Here is an example from another barrel, shooting PPU M193. The group size increases with more shots. Even if HK only did a 5 shot group, those 5 shots could be at extremes. It’s all chance within the statistical range of the barrel/ammo combo.

5 closest shots: 2.52 MOA
8 shots: 3.36 MOA
9 shots: 4.61 MOA
10 shots: 4.98 MOA

 

[Agnotology]

Some ammo/barrel combos are just like that.
This Rainier 1:7 mountain barrel shot (5 rnd groups) under 1 MOA with Hornady 73gr. But shot Magtech 55gr M193 to 2.6 MOA.

View attachment 930922View attachment 930921

You say, but that’s 2.6 MOA, not 5 MOA. Yes, but it was only 5 rounds. Here is an example from another barrel, shooting PPU M193. The group size increases with more shots. Even if HK only did a 5 shot group, those 5 shots could be at extremes. It’s all chance within the statistical range of the barrel/ammo combo.

5 closest shots: 2.52 MOA
8 shots: 3.36 MOA
9 shots: 4.61 MOA
10 shots: 4.98 MOA

View attachment 930925

Nothing really to do but feed the beast and see what pans out.

 

[PappyM3]

Nothing really to do but feed the beast and see what pans out.

Yup. Just saying 5 MOA isn’t unheard of with bulk ammo.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Some ammo/barrel combos are just like that.
This Rainier 1:7 mountain barrel shot (5 rnd groups) under 1 MOA with Hornady 73gr. But shot Magtech 55gr M193 to 2.6 MOA.

View attachment 930922View attachment 930921

You say, but that’s 2.6 MOA, not 5 MOA. Yes, but it was only 5 rounds. Here is an example from another barrel, shooting PPU M193. The group size increases with more shots. Even if HK only did a 5 shot group, those 5 shots could be at extremes. It’s all chance within the statistical range of the barrel/ammo combo.

5 closest shots: 2.52 MOA
8 shots: 3.36 MOA
9 shots: 4.61 MOA
10 shots: 4.98 MOA

View attachment 930925

I shot this thing, brand new upper.

Radical Firearms, Complete Upper Receiver, 5.56 16' Barrel 15' RPR Mlok Rail w/ BCG & Charging Handle

<p>Complete your AR-15 build with the high-performance Radical Firearms AR15 Complete Upper in 5.56 NATO. This upper is designed to handle both 5.56 NATO and .223 Rem cartridges, providing versatility for various shooting applications. It features a robust 16-inch SOCOM contour barrel made from...

battlehawkarmory.com

Only put 120 rounds through it and was pretty frustrating to get 2.5-3 inch groups at 50 yards. I know I could better with one of my other ARs and the PSA budget upper.

Shot some of my Wolf Gold .223 I stacked a lot of back in the day. Maybe just not the best bullets for 1:7.

 

[Agnotology]

Yup. Just saying 5 MOA isn’t unheard of with bulk ammo.

should have just gotten an A2 with a 20" barrel so I could shoot cheap stuff well haha

 

[AllaSnackbah]

I keep 75gr speer gold dot, 77 SMK, and M855A1 for the great boog in the sky.

Everything else is for training, mostly 55gr federal. Stacked deep.

 

[M1911]

Just trying to sight in my 2 MOA red dot. Shoulda put in a magnifier behind it. Tough to see what I was hitting at 50 yds.

I wouldn't assume that the gun and ammo are limited to accuracy.

 

[mac1911]

Yup. Just saying 5 MOA isn’t unheard of with bulk ammo.

Look up what mil spec ammo spec is.
Its not that great and thats from a accuracy test barrel , Toss in the not so great accuracy spec of a M16 xyz model and you will soon see that anything shooting sub 3moa is good. Less than that better.

High quality bullets ans match barrels will get you under 2 mai and really exceptional barrel and tuned loads and solid skills can creep sub moa.

Practice more , get your basics down .

 

[mac1911]

I shot this thing, brand new upper.

Radical Firearms, Complete Upper Receiver, 5.56 16' Barrel 15' RPR Mlok Rail w/ BCG & Charging Handle

<p>Complete your AR-15 build with the high-performance Radical Firearms AR15 Complete Upper in 5.56 NATO. This upper is designed to handle both 5.56 NATO and .223 Rem cartridges, providing versatility for various shooting applications. It features a robust 16-inch SOCOM contour barrel made from...

battlehawkarmory.com

Only put 120 rounds through it and was pretty frustrating to get 2.5-3 inch groups at 50 yards. I know I could better with one of my other ARs and the PSA budget upper.

Shot some of my Wolf Gold .223 I stacked a lot of back in the day. Maybe just not the best bullets for 1:7.

View attachment 930929

I dont expect much from a $300 upper.
That wolf gold was decent especially the 75 grain stuff. Wish I bought more back then.

 

[G4Y4HK]

I wouldn't assume that the gun and ammo are limited to accuracy.

Yeah I'm gonna get some 77 gr and next time I'm at the range and have the RSO pop a couple shots and see how it groups. Problem is they magnet test the bullets and won't let me shoot my M855.