50 year old charge

There are a couple good sample S there, and a suspended sentence would also mean a guilty ruling. Getting what the possible entries for the MG and G certainly couldn't hurt, but I think it's a G so nothing will make it worse.

That's the thing.....what (serious) possibilities can there be for the meanings of MG or MD?
 
The SJC along the lines of twisting due process into "administrative" punishment which isn't "punitive" would interpret that in light of an "administrative" ambiguity of guilt it wouldn't be unreasonable for the state to assume a person is guilty until proven innocent.
 
It looks to me like the "MD" or "MG" could be in fact "NG" (not guilty) since it's in the column marked "Motions and pleas"

As a motion, "MD" makes sense, as a plea, "NG" makes sense.
 
It looks to me like the "MD" or "MG" could be in fact "NG" (not guilty) since it's in the column marked "Motions and pleas"

As a motion, "MD" makes sense, as a plea, "NG" makes sense.
I think you've got something there. NG for Not Guilty would fit. Only question I still have is what is the heading of the G(or D) column?

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Here's the whole page go nuts. The D in complainant Deborah Farren two cases below is helpful as is the G in my client's name although that may be a different author. Also the top case says md and dismissed which is good.

They are most definitely Ds. So Motion to Dismiss and Dismissed respectively, imho. IANAL but I would think anyone involved with these kinds of proceedings on a daily basis would have a strong intuition about what they are and what they mean.

The squiggles on top of the Ds were added by a second person screwing around, probably the person recording the fines/court fees/costs were paid. There is a D further down the right hand page with both a head and what I assume are breasts (a triangle). Either that or the squiggles and triangle are some kind of private notation modifying the MD and D.
 
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I think Mibro has hit the nail on the head. The head on the D was added later by a bored clerk or someone. It bothered me that they were lighter in color too. The other "adornments" shown on other Ds make this clear as do the lack of them in the last D on the page. Good catch sir!

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A D has the tail at the top and a G has the tail at the bottom, how do you not see that? There are samples of both on the same page. Just because it's not what you want it to be, doesn't change the facts.
 
All of this because it was to difficult to write out "Dismissed" or "Guilty".

Why would we ever insist that a clerk write 8 whole letters? Lack of writing out a single word follows and haunts a guy for the rest of his life?

The judge should rule against the State just for institutional laziness and stupidity.
 
All of this because it was to difficult to write out "Dismissed" or "Guilty".

Why would we ever insist that a clerk write 8 whole letters? Lack of writing out a single word follows and haunts a guy for the rest of his life?

The judge should rule against the State just for institutional laziness and stupidity.

Except that the judge IS the state.
 
All of this because it was to difficult to write out "Dismissed" or "Guilty".

Why would we ever insist that a clerk write 8 whole letters? Lack of writing out a single word follows and haunts a guy for the rest of his life?

The judge should rule against the State just for institutional laziness and stupidity.

I absolutely agree.
I even have a couple wonderful examples of clerks f'ing up the records because they were simply too lazy to do it right.
 
A D has the tail at the top and a G has the tail at the bottom, how do you not see that? There are samples of both on the same page. Just because it's not what you want it to be, doesn't change the facts.
You understand that I am an advocate for a client, right? My opinion is irrelevant in this matter although I would like to win personally and on behalf of my client. I can see both sides and still firmly advocate. I know that half of the people who see that letter think its a D equally fervently as you see a G.

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You understand that I am an advocate for a client, right? My opinion is irrelevant in this matter although I would like to win personally and on behalf of my client. I can see both sides and still firmly advocate. I know that half of the people who see that letter think its a D equally fervently as you see a G.

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rubins-vase.jpg

vase, or 2 faces?
 

liar-face1-e1337397712440.gif


Sorry, couldn't help myself.
 
A D has the tail at the top and a G has the tail at the bottom, how do you not see that? There are samples of both on the same page. Just because it's not what you want it to be, doesn't change the facts.

Except that not everyone writes/wrote cursive in the way you think they should. There is an unadorned D on that page that could not be anything but a D imho. A straight upward line and a semi-circle with this particular writer's flourish at the end.
 
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Except that not everyone writes/wrote cursive in the way you think they should. There are unadorned Ds on that page that could not be anything but a D imho. A straight upward line and a semi-circle with this particular writer's flourish at the end.

Where?
 
I don't think you understand how to play "gotcha." Is this going to be another "walking away from" thread?

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You show two cursive G as definitive examples of a D. Look at the name Deborah, there is your independent example. You can't use the letters in question as definitive proof. That's circular logic, like saying the bible is true because the bible says so (its an example, I'm not arguing the truth or non-truth of the bible).

A cursive D has the tail at the top not the bottom, this holds for every example I've seen, including the D from Deborah on this page. A cursive D starts with a downstroke, a cursive G starts with an upstroke, as these do. You are seeing what you want to see, that does not make it so.

Also consider that if this was a D for dismissed, why is it that there are two entries that say dismissed and those do not contain a single letter G for guilty. But the three with the single letter (G for guilty) do not say dismissed and include a fine, which would only accompany a guilty.

The plea NG is obviously Not Guilty and appears in all entries.
There is also an example of a motion. A motion to suppress with a clear "allowed". No other motions are noted.

The facts do not fit your position.

I get why the OP is saying what he is saying.
 
You show two cursive G as definitive examples of a D. Look at the name Deborah, there is your independent example. You can't use the letters in question as definitive proof. That's circular logic, like saying the bible is true because the bible says so (its an example, I'm not arguing the truth or non-truth of the bible).

Whether you think they're Ds or Gs the image I posted is of unadorned letters. No funny little head on the fat monk.

And I'm just not seeing your cursive G to be honest. Here's what Google thinks:

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Cursive G.JPG


The facts do not fit your position.

If you're correct, then MG appears several times on the page.

What is MG an abbreviation for?

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MD.JPG
 
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Hire me and I'll argue whatever you need argued.

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“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”

― Carl Sandburg
 
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If you're correct, then MG appears several times on the page.

What is MG an abbreviation for?

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Your example Gs show exactly what I'm pointing out on the page. A cursive uppercase G starts with an upstroke and ends with the tail at the bottom. A cursive uppercase D starts with a downstroke and ends with the tail at the top. I'm not giving any weight to the fuzzy little extra marks, which I can't tell if they were added later or are some issue with the paper, but are clearly not part of the original letter.

A cursive uppercase N has 2 humps, an M would have 3, so these are NG or Not Guilty. A plea is an absolute requirement on the record someplace. Nothing else fits.

I'm not OLD, but my kid's (all grown up) didn't have anywhere near the kind of emphasis on writing in cursive that I did in school. So perhaps what I see as obvious is a reflection of my time learning and reading cursive. Including cursive that was more "fluid" than the examples dug up with google. And of course these entries were made before I was born.

What we need is a couple 80 year old catholic school nuns. There is both a catholic school and a retirement home for nuns in my town, maybe I should ask them [wink](JK).
 
There is a secondary legal question: If it is impossible to tell, does the lord or the serf get the benefit of the doubt?
 
I believe the MD inscription indicates motion to dismiss. MG repeatedly appearing makes no sense.

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I'm not going to argue with you that it's NG not MG, you have an interest in it not being this.

What's the column heading with the single letter G or D (depending on your viewpoint)?

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There is a secondary legal question: If it is impossible to tell, does the lord or the serf get the benefit of the doubt?

Vacate, retry and get a dismissal. (credit idea to swatgig)
 
There is a secondary legal question: If it is impossible to tell, does the lord or the serf get the benefit of the doubt?

Just like any other clerical error. Everything is entered in good faith and if you believe it to be in error... well fill this out and send it and attach a letter stating why you think it might be in error and then.....[rolleyes][rolleyes]
 
I believe the MD inscription indicates motion to dismiss. MG repeatedly appearing makes no sense.

That may be your best bet to win this, along with the obvious second person adorning some of the Ds but not others.

This thread is almost as good as the forged birth certificate thread. [smile]
 
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I had the same thought. If it's ambiguous the serf should prevail. Should.

Except that the courts have held that the burden of proof in a licensing case is totally on the applicant, which could mean that the applicant fails unless he proves it is a D.
 
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