50 year old charge

[Len-2A Training]

I can't believe that there isn't a corresponding file folder (in archives) with a real Docket Sheet and description of charges and court appearances, etc.

I've only checked records in Bristol and Norfolk Counties, but in both cases old case files weren't merely a ledger book entry.

 

[swatgig]

I can't believe that there isn't a corresponding file folder (in archives) with a real Docket Sheet and description of charges and court appearances, etc.

I've only checked records in Bristol and Norfolk Counties, but in both cases old case files weren't merely a ledger book entry.

Worcester, Clinton, Dudley, Westborough and East Brookfield have nothing left but the ledger books.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Worcester, Clinton, Dudley, Westborough and East Brookfield have nothing left but the ledger books.

So they burned the files? Great!! I pity the poor folks that get caught up in this ex-post facto BS and have no avenue to prove the outcome definitively. Makes it even more important for folks to get their Docket Sheets and keep them when a case is heard, not relying on ever having to go back and dig out old records.

I would have thought that they would be in Iron Mountain or someplace similar.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Makes it even more important for folks to get their Docket Sheets and keep them when a case is heard

Pay extra to get a COURT CERTIFIED copy.

 

[swatgig]

So they burned the files? Great!! I pity the poor folks that get caught up in this ex-post facto BS and have no avenue to prove the outcome definitively. Makes it even more important for folks to get their Docket Sheets and keep them when a case is heard, not relying on ever having to go back and dig out old records.

I would have thought that they would be in Iron Mountain or someplace similar.

Worcester and East Brookfield are relatively new buildings. I suspect they never unpacked the old dockets, if they even brought them. In any event, they are nowhere to be found.

On the other hand, it makes it a pretty easy argument to vacate the conviction. The Supreme Court held in Padilla that failure to advise a client of the immigration consequences of a guilty plea constitutes ineffective assistance of counsel. I use the same argument and cite Padilla, but simply remove the word "immigration" - failure to advise a client of the consequences of a guilty plea constitutes ineffective counsel. I also point to the warning that appears on the bottom of EVERY criminal complaint in the Commonwealth -

Notice to Defendant:42 U.S.C. § 3796gg-4(e) requires this notice: If you are convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence you may be prohibited permanently from purchasing and/or possessing a firearm and/or ammunition pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 922 (g)(9) and other applicable related Federal, State, or local laws.

It makes a great argument that the person pled guilty without knowing that he would forever forfeit his Constitutional Rights, which should be held to a higher standard than an immigrant's right to remain in the USA, which is not protected by the constitution.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It makes a great argument that the person pled guilty without knowing that he would forever forfeit his Constitutional Rights, which should be held to a higher standard than an immigrant's right to remain in the USA, which is not protected by the constitution.

How about the case where a minor is told that by accepting a plea deal, his record will be sealed upon reaching the age of majority and will never be used against him and the state later changes its mind about that?

The record sealing issue was tried before the SJC and the appellant lost (Chardin v. Police Commissioner of Boston). I wonder if it would be ineffective assistance of counsel to fail to tell junior "Under current law this will not be used against you, but it will be on your record, somewhere, and the state may decide to unseal it at a later time." Similarly, counsel should be advising people taking CWOFs that these "may, at a future time, be treated like convictions for firearms rights purposes".

CWOFs are already considered convictions for OUI predicate offenses and for CDL licensing. In the case of CDL licensing, the defendant had no advance notice the CWOF would be used against him as he was told it was a "dismissal" and the SJC decision that "such a dismissal is a conviction" had not been handed down. The court held that since he could have fought the charge, a CWOF was tantamount to a guilty plea.

 

[swatgig]

How about the case where a minor is told that by accepting a plea deal, his record will be sealed upon reaching the age of majority and will never be used against him and the state later changes its mind about that?

That hearing is next month. I'll let you know how it works out.

Also, check the email I sent you yesterday. This is becoming more and more of an issue.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Pay extra to get a COURT CERTIFIED copy.

Totally agree, especially if they are going to make those records irretrievable later.

 

[Waher]

Hmm, now I know the Constitution prohibits both the Feds and States from enacting laws that retroactively increase the punishment for a crime that happened before the law was written (prohibition on ex post facto laws in Article-1 Sections 9 & 10). So, how could we be having these discussions about people losing their rights decades after the deed? Hmmm.

MA Constitution also prohibits ex post facto prosecutions and the old licenses used to say on them "valid for life unless revoked". The state never officially revoked all those licenses.

 

[PATRON]

I would go with finding a few old nuns to say if it's a C,or D.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So, how could we be having these discussions about people losing their rights decades after the deed?

The MA courts have held that an administrative action, even if it would be considered cruel and unusual, does not constitute "punishment", because it is administrative rather than punitive in nature.

 

[Waher]

The MA courts have held that an administrative action, even if it would be considered cruel and unusual, does not constitute "punishment", because it is administrative rather than punitive in nature.

Franz Kafka and George Orwell wrote textbooks for SJC logic. I wish the USSC would spend several years bench slapping the ever living daylights out of the SJC, but even then the SJC wouldn't learn a thing.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

The MA courts have held that an administrative action, even if it would be considered cruel and unusual, does not constitute "punishment", because it is administrative rather than punitive in nature.

Mass courts are a danger to liberty and freedom

 

[Coyote33]

... a pretty easy argument to vacate the conviction. The Supreme Court held in Padilla that failure to advise a client of the immigration consequences of a guilty plea constitutes ineffective assistance of counsel. I use the same argument and cite Padilla, but simply remove the word "immigration" - failure to advise a client of the consequences of a guilty plea constitutes ineffective counsel. I also point to the warning that appears on the bottom of EVERY criminal complaint in the Commonwealth -

Notice to Defendant:42 U.S.C. § 3796gg-4(e) requires this notice: If you are convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence you may be prohibited permanently from purchasing and/or possessing a firearm and/or ammunition pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 922 (g)(9) and other applicable related Federal, State, or local laws.

It makes a great argument that the person pled guilty without knowing that he would forever forfeit his Constitutional Rights, which should be held to a higher standard than an immigrant's right to remain in the USA, which is not protected by the constitution.

After what date? (in reply to part in blue)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

bench slapping

Is that the judicial version of bitch slapping?

 

[Bill Katt]

OK....as far as D or G.....the cursive chart posted earlier was how I was taught around 40+ yrs ago.....however, look at it this way. In 1964 the clerk was most likely at least 20 yrs old....the person that taught them cursive I would assume to be much older at that time...sooooo....let's look at a cursive chart that may have been how the clerk ended up being taught......I believe this is how it was taught a bit earlier in the 1900's....note the HUGE difference in how the D's and G's were made then.

 

[Tackdriver VillenTactical]

What is the disposition on his BOP (the computer printout)?

Dave

 

[nstassel]

He has no Cori. None at all. No pcf number assigned to him.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[garandman]

If the "MD" is "Motion to Dismiss" and the finding is the same letter, sure seems to prove it is a "D."

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If the "MD" is "Motion to Dismiss" and the finding is the same letter, sure seems to prove it is a "D."

Yeah, but the marsupial could conclude MD stands for "Mostly Guilty".

 

[42!]

Putting aside the D or G issue for a moment, the sad part is he could spend a ton of $$ and eventually get a ruling in his favor, that it was an assault dismissed with a fee, and then just be denied on suitability (he pised off the powers that be).

 

[Jason Flare]

I would go with finding a few old nuns to say if it's a C,or D.

I don't know if all Catholic schools used the Palmer Method but the school I went to did. Palmer Method gave a couple of options for some capital letters. This is an interesting case. You'd almost need to know who wrote it and what cursive method they used.

Nice thread OP!

 

[robjax]

Here's a cute situation. A guy had owned guns and had an ltc for decades. He tried to buy a long gun and gets declined. Shortly the friendly police are revoking his ltc and tell him he's a prohibited person to the FBI. He had an assault and battery in 1964 which he thinks was dismissed for 50 bucks.

I located the case docket. The relevant portion is attached. Half the people that look at it think its a "G" and the other half think its a "D". I'll have to see if a judge can be convinced it's a D.

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So the op's friend thinks it was dismissed and he paid $50.00. What we no from the pic that is true is that 50 looks to have been paid on 4/29.

Looks like a D to me. But it certainly could be a G, or a 12 or a Q with a weird line on the left side...Perhaps from this they should learn to write out the whole word so an innocent person's life isn't destroyed.

 

[Tackdriver VillenTactical]

Maybe you could compare the letters of other known case dispositions by that clerk. If someone clearly has a sentence of incarceration and a similar looking letter in their file, you could assume it's a G.

Also, what are the headings at the top of each column?

Dave

 

[nstassel]

Here's the whole page go nuts. The D in complainant Deborah Farren two cases below is helpful as is the G in my client's name although that may be a different author. Also the top case says md and dismissed which is good.

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[drgrant]

Putting aside the D or G issue for a moment, the sad part is he could spend a ton of $$ and eventually get a ruling in his favor, that it was an assault dismissed with a fee, and then just be denied on suitability (he pised off the powers that be).

Suitability is fixable by a uhaul truck at least.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Putting aside the D or G issue for a moment, the sad part is he could spend a ton of $$ and eventually get a ruling in his favor, that it was an assault dismissed with a fee, and then just be denied on suitability (he pised off the powers that be).

In cases where the FRB has denied an LTC over a technical/records issue, the local PD may have no axe to grind and be perfectly willing to issue an LTC.

 

[Tackdriver VillenTactical]

Clearly looks like different people making entries. I would ask the court for a list of acceptable codes as well as who made the entry. Maybe they are still alive and can tell you what things mean. FWIW, to me the entry looks like a cursive "S". Maybe a suspended sentence??

Dave

 

[42!]

Here's the whole page go nuts. The D in complainant Deborah Farren two cases below is helpful as is the G in my client's name although that may be a different author. Also the top case says md and dismissed which is good

Sorry dude, 2174 there is your sample D with the tail at the top. Your client's name, complainant, and offence do appear to be a different hand than all the others from the 29th, all the MG and G appear to be the same hand (Even if I'm wrong he'll have a hard time proving it to a Judge with that on the page). Dismissed specifically appears in the two entries that that do not have a G alone in a column. What is the column heading for all the Gs (just using what I think it is), I can't quite make it out.

I don't think you're going to sell this to a Judge, but IANAL. Maybe if you got a handwriting expert that agreed with you and the opposition didn't have their own expert.

For the record, I think it's wrong that what appears to be a single minor assault charge from 50 years ago should have any effect on an LTC/FID. Maybe if it was within the last 5 years, but 50 years ago and a single event, that's serious BS.

Suitability is fixable by a uhaul truck at least.

Do you know specific towns? Preferably inside the 495 circle (I need to be able to work). PM me I'm ready to move.

In cases where the FRB has denied an LTC over a technical/records issue, the local PD may have no axe to grind and be perfectly willing to issue an LTC.

True. I was thinking more along the lines that a department which had ever denied on suitability for an assault arrest probably would still deny because they don't want to be seen as "random or capricious" which I've heard is what you need to prove to get a suitability denial overturned.
But of course this would not apply universally and drgants comment would also apply.

 

[42!]

Clearly looks like different people making entries. I would ask the court for a list of acceptable codes as well as who made the entry. Maybe they are still alive and can tell you what things mean. FWIW, to me the entry looks like a cursive "S". Maybe a suspended sentence??

Dave

There are a couple good sample S there, and a suspended sentence would also mean a guilty ruling. Getting what the possible entries for the MG and G certainly couldn't hurt, but I think it's a G so nothing will make it worse.