-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
4th lawsuit filed
- Thread starter JRyan
- Start date
J
Jose
Waiting for the police apologists in three.....two.....one.....
I hope they get whats coming to them. Might be a wake up call to other bullies with badges. I've meet a lot of good cops in my life, and it only takes a few to make the rest look bad. You add the union to protect those bad apples and it looks like a big cover up.
schnips
NES Member
J
Jose
Maybe that's a wake up call to every dickhead who thinks a badge makes them God.
It looks like for once, the system got it right esp if there was a sergeant on the scene. I don't know to what extent their trainers should be held responsible, we'll see how that plays out.
Mark L.
Mark L.
That's a slippery slope IMO. While the military follows the axiom "you fight like you are trained"...I think holding instructors liable is making the cops who actually allegedly murdered the victim "victims" themselves. If I were an NRA Mass qualified instructor and later one of my former students shoots someone because they used poor judgment, then why should I be held accountable ? or "Gee, I accidentally hit the other car because my driver's ed teacher didn't train me well enough."
I suppose that the defense the trainer's can offer are their lesson plans and test scores and demonstrate that their instruction was in accordance with the law. I suppose they could also argue that none of their other students have been indicted on these charges...On the other hand if some of their other students have been indicted on these charges, then they should be indicted.
The cops f***ed up and so did the supervisor, but how anyone not at the scene can be held responsible is a stretch.
"Oh gee, I'm a bad cop 'cuz I was trained that way" (might be true in some very rare cases) is a stretch IMO.
Mark L.
Can't have it both ways. Either 'just following orders' is a valid excuse, and it's the trainer's fault, or it's the officer's fault. If illegal methods were taught, however, conspiracy charges should definitely be brought against the trainer. Just not convinced you can blame an officer for a murder, as well as the person who taught him how to do his job. One assumes he's autonomous, the other assumes he's not.
MisterHappy
NES Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2009
- Messages
- 28,373
- Likes
- 17,541
My guess: When it comes to the trial, it will be pointed out that in a "Post 9/11 world" the public should know that the police are in no mood for arguement ( and rightly so....terrorists are known for OUI, jet skis in yards and going home) and that anything less than instant compliance is unpatriotic, at least....
The thought of the brave Protectors of the Public having been in danger will sway the jury....
The thought of the brave Protectors of the Public having been in danger will sway the jury....
Unfortunately, this seems to be the most likely thing to happen.
It is, however, good to see that someone at least has the cajones to actually charge cops with murder when they appear to have murdered a man.
Bill Nance
Banned
So if someone takes one of my courses and later does something stupid, including things I specifically said are illegal/dangerous, I should go to jail for their actions? -Brilliant.
Not a pretty picture emerging here. This guy shot for poor driving and telling the cops to come back with a warrant. Bailbondsman shot without a warning. TSA groping little girls....a supreme court that seems more interested in protecting government powers instead of individual rights.
What mechanism had the founding fathers provided for us to take back our country from these thugs?
What mechanism had the founding fathers provided for us to take back our country from these thugs?
MisterHappy
NES Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2009
- Messages
- 28,373
- Likes
- 17,541
Guns are inhernetly dangerous ( and likely to fire by themselves, you know ), and anyone that facilitates the posession and use of guns, is wicked.
I mean, if a cop can put a round through his hand ( and we all know that cops are trained, and can be trusted), what possible chance does a mere civillain have?
As always, Somebody has to pay!
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
You're training civilians in courses....no?
Slightly different than law enforcement. That's their job. Oath. You know?
If you told them not to do it, and they do it, not your problem.
I can almost guarantee the police instructor made no such distinction. "If the subject resists, he is doing something wrong, bust in"....that's probably more like it.
So no, don't put yourself into that category, you'll be insulting yourself, you probably have a much more profound understanding of the law than the amateurs down at the academy. And if anyone wants to flame me for that, go right ahead, you need to look no further than the example provided in this thread....and now someone is dead, good job academy. Your jackboot mentality has killed another person, not a dog, because you're (academy) training all cops to be psychotic jacked up wannabe operators hellbent on burning the constitution and anyone that opposes their "authority"...and I'm talking about the new generation of them. The old school guys still have respect for the job, the new guys...from what I see....look like they are ready to invade poland...and then france.
Last edited:
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Michael,
Many "go off the reservation" and do things that they were NOT taught in any academy or were specifically told NOT TO DO!
I've worked with a few and speak from that experience.
Many "go off the reservation" and do things that they were NOT taught in any academy or were specifically told NOT TO DO!
I've worked with a few and speak from that experience.
Completely agreed. However I think that quite a few of the academys are not longer producing policemen...they are producing tactical law enforcement officers. Very different....and for that I think they should be held to the fire just as much to make an example and take these head cases down a notch. We need policemen, people who uphold the constitution and the law of the land....we don't need stormtroopers. I'm sure we can all agree the direction a lot of these forces are going isn't a road we want to see the end of...they are getting downright scary....and it's no longer isolated incidents.
For the record, I don't hate cops, policemen, detectives....
I do however hate these tactical tammys running around giving the good guys a bad name. I do my fair share of bashing, but for good reason...these instances aren't slowing down, they are happening more and more.
Last edited:
I agree with the charges but not on the trainers. The trainers are not going off the reservation and enlisting stormtroopers, they are following the training that has been agreed upon by the heads of town or state law enforcement agencies. A proper investigation should flush out improper training methods and hold the highest overseeing office accountable and not with murder charges but loss of job.
J
Jose
Maybe you missed the fact that these cops were indicted by a Grand Jury? Regular citizens handed down these indictments based on evidence presented to them by the State Attorney.
Based on that, I would not be so quick to count on an acquittal at trial. In fact, this does not bode well at all for those troopers.
I hope they like the Colorado State Penitentiary from the inside. I hear they don't like cops and rats there too much.
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 16,975
- Likes
- 2,820
I have a nephew going through police academy right now. I can tell you the training he gets on guns is A) minimal and b) not reflective of the PD behavior out on the street. Basically the instruction is guns are legal and you can't hassle people for doing things legally. But even in the academy these kids know that what they are hearing is one side of the story and they will get more training in the field.
I have another nephew whose BF is now a rookie cop in NH. He has made it clear that the training he got was superseded by the on the job training from his mentor and that the mentor has contradicted the academy training on more than one occasion. Chiefs clearly have a responsibility to pick veteran mentors more wisely than they are doing so.
All in all, I agree that in many circumstances the trainers are not to blame, though in this one I am not sure the ACLU doesn't have something more specific.
The MPTC curriculum is largely controlled by the MCOPA and a MPTC training committee.
It isn't controlled by individual PDs/towns.
It isn't controlled by individual PDs/towns.
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 16,975
- Likes
- 2,820
I never said otherwise. But the individual towns do pick the veteran officers rookies shadow and get mentored by.
Bill Nance
Banned
Michael: How many law enforcement trainers do you know? I know several and what you're saying is flat-out wrong.
I'll be able to tell you how it is from personal experience when I complete the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Center LE firearms instructor course later this year.
I'll be able to tell you how it is from personal experience when I complete the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Center LE firearms instructor course later this year.
MPTC training is very good in regards to firearms, most recently having implemented 100% round accountability for all new recruits. In essence when they qualify every round has to be accounted for or it’s a fail. Common sense come into play in that if a person’s shooting a fist sized hole in the target it’s probably safe to assume were there rounds are. If a recruit gets 49 out of 50 on the paper and it’s witnessed the last round misses the paper it’s a fail. This is also going to eventually be implemented into veteran officer training. I know our recruit had to have 2000 rounds of pistol ammo for his 5 days on the range. Once these people leave the academy it’s their fault if they choose not to practice or do something that goes against standard accepted practices. Assuming the training Officers did not encourage or train this improper behavior the mistake is the fault of the shooter. The ACLU sucks and there just going after everybody under the deep pockets theory.
![[flame]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/032.gif "Flame [flame]")
Similar threads
