.45/70 trapdoor loads

[gerrycaruso]

All this talk of loads for a trapdoor made me curious. I just loaded 100 rounds for my trapdoor and they cost me 24 cents a round. That would be 24 bucks for 100 rounds vs 431 dollars to buy 100 rounds. I guess it was time well spent.

 

[Mountain]

All this talk of trapdoor loads makes me want a trapdoor, LOL.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Yeah when you’re loading the Lord’s cartridge you really see a cost savings over the common fodder.

 

[Broc]

All this talk of trapdoor loads makes me want a trapdoor, LOL.

Buy one.

 

[gerrycaruso]

I wanted to test the theory that black powder will bump up an undersized bullet and smokeless powder will not. It seems to be true. I fired all loads in an 1873 trapdoor. The Lyman 457125 didn't hit a 2 1/2' square piece of paper at 50 yards and hit sideways at 25 yards when pushed by smokeless powder. When pushed by black powder it shot about a 2" group at 50 yards. The bullets were sized .459. I should have saved all that time and just asked The Goose.

 

[Road_Clam]

The master bp shooters swear that you "should" observe consistently better accuracy in the 45-70, 45-90 etc using bp in antique long guns. Bp is an explosion , smokeless is a controlled burn. I have a smokeless load for my TD using 4198 and the 405 rnfp it it shoots good. I have a bp load , same bullit but Swiss 2F bp and it shoots tighter groups (and i seem to notice less random fliers shooting with the Swiss)

 

[gerrycaruso]

I think the reason black powder can bump up a bullet is because it's an explosive. Smokeless powder is a flammable solid. It's much more powerful, but not an explosive. I think the greater accuracy I found was from the black powder bumping up the bullet. I'll try a .461 bullet with smokeless powder.

 

[45BPCR]

I use a "Modified" Lyman 457125 with my Trapdoor.
I used valve lapping compound to increase the "as cast" size to .460 and the nose, or bore riding part of the bullet fits snugly into the muzzle.
That makes it a tight slip fit in once fired Starline brass.
I drop tube 62 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 into the case and compress it enough to leave one grease groove exposed.
That leaves the bullet just short of engaging the rifling.
I use 20-1 alloy for my Trapdoor bullets.
This load shoots pretty close to the sights out to 1000 yds

I see guys buy Trapdoors and try to shoot commercial ammo or use store bought cast bullets.
Usually they're disappointed with accuracy.
The problem with that is bullet size.
Trapdoors need a .460 or .461 bullet as they have large bores.
The 3 groove rifling makes it hard to measure because, well, math.

For those wanting to shoot 500 yds or less, don't discount the hollow base Lee mould.
I think it's the 459-405HB.
It has big grease grooves and you can fill the base with lube as well.
Just use a poly wad and wax paper between the bullet and powder.

Hope this helps

 

[Broc]

I wanted to test the theory that black powder will bump up an undersized bullet and smokeless powder will not. It seems to be true. I fired all loads in an 1873 trapdoor. The Lyman 457125 didn't hit a 2 1/2' square piece of paper at 50 yards and hit sideways at 25 yards when pushed by smokeless powder. When pushed by black powder it shot about a 2" group at 50 yards. The bullets were sized .459. I should have saved all that time and just asked The Goose.

Also, if you don't lube your bullets, at least when shooting BP, you can rip the case.

I posted some pics not long ago, I tried some loads without lube and 2 cases were ripped in half and shot out. LOL.

 

[45BPCR]

I have two Lyman lube / sizers.
One for smokeless and one for black powder.
For smokeless I've always used the nasty Lyman super moly.
It works for me.

My BPCR lube is home made.
It's a modified Matthews lube that mimics SPG.
It has to be used in a lube / sizer as it's not good for pan lubing.
The ingredients are bees wax, castor wax and castor oil.
The exact ratios are written on a cabinet door at my shop, and I'm at the beach.

I'll post the recipe next week along with some photos of my simple lube stick molds.

It's a funny lube.
When you combine the waxes and oil and let them harden it produces a hard brittle wax.
It crumbles when you try to cut it.
But, when you put it through a lube/sizer it becomes soft and pliable.
Weird


Your mileage may vary

 

[Road_Clam]

I buy my BPCR lube from the Bull Shop . NASA lube. I have a ton of ingredients to make my own lube, just too dam lazy at this point. Once i retire im planning on taking my BPC loading and shooting to a much higher level.

~ Lubes ~

Info on our Bullet Lubes ~~~ they come in a cake form @ $40.00 a pound plus shipping ~ We make NASA lube that is for black powder cartridge bullets. We also make two lubes for smokeless powder...

bullshop.weebly.com

 

[45BPCR]

Was inland today for Thanksgiving and snapped a pic of that lube recipe.
If the tryptophan wasn't killing me I'd have taken one of my lube moulds as well.
Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving!

 

[45BPCR]

here's a couple of pics of those lube stick moulds I made.
They work pretty good, just some copper pipe, end caps and chrome plated toilet supply lines.
I warm them up with a heat gun or torch, pour the lube in and let it harden.
To remove the lube I blow heat up the center tube and pull it out.
Then use a wooden dowel to push out the sticks.
Once cut to lenghth they drop right into a Lyman or RCBS lube-sizer.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

here's a couple of pics of those lube stick moulds I made.
They work pretty good, just some copper pipe, end caps and chrome plated toilet supply lines.
I warm them up with a heat gun or torch, pour the lube in and let it harden.
To remove the lube I blow heat up the center tube and pull it out.
Then use a wooden dowel to push out the sticks.
Once cut to lenghth they drop right into a Lyman or RCBS lube-sizer.View attachment 691075View attachment 691076

Wow those look way better than the PVC version. No clue if they’re more functional but you get an A for aesthetics

 

[45BPCR]

I'd made some using PVC and wasn't happy with them.
Using copper, just a little heat makes the lube sticks slide right out with no breakage

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

I'd made some using PVC and wasn't happy with them.
Using copper, just a little heat makes the lube sticks slide right out with no breakage

Makes sense. I would make lube but Al the recipes I have seen and the few I tried never seem to smell as good as white label lubed.