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.40S&W vs. the bear

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PaiN

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Any opinions on using .40S&W as defensive round against our New England beasts? Worst case scenario, stopping a brown or black bear as I'm mostly out in CT and don't see too many moose [wink].
I'd really like a .45ACP but that might not be feasible this year, I'm thinking a .40S&W might be just as effective.
thanks
 
We just had an other looooong discussion about hand guns and bears. If I were honestly worried about a bear, I would want as much bang as I can afford/carry. Magnum revolver.
 
Not an expert on the subject, but my son in Alaska tells me that if you rely on a handgun for bear, file off the front sight. That way it won't hurt as much when the bear shoves the gun up your ass! Jack.
 
PaiN said:
Any opinions on using .40S&W as defensive round against our New England beasts? Worst case scenario, stopping a brown or black bear as I'm mostly out in CT and don't see too many moose [wink].
I'd really like a .45ACP but that might not be feasible this year, I'm thinking a .40S&W might be just as effective.
thanks
Click to expand...
I'm almost 100% sure that a 9mm is more than sufficient to stop a 500 lb.+ beast from charging and of course you could always take away his credit card too
 
Really, from the ballistics data that I've looked at, there is a very minimal difference between a 180g .40S&W vs. a .158g 357mag (415 vs 428 foot-pounds @50y)....Since from what I've read, .357mag is ok for local bears, why not .40S&W?
Now add this: I carry a .357mag 2.25in snubby loaded with 5rounds 158g SPHPs.... I feel like that is less firepower than a 4" barrel .40S&W with 12+rounds of 180g
I suppose if ever attacked by a wild animal, I'm going to be squeezing the trigger like a madman until either me or it is dead.
 
PaiN said:
Since from what I've read, .357mag is ok for local bears, why not .40S&W?
Click to expand...

Bears aren't people. Bullets for the .40 S&W are designed to be effective on people, not animals.

Hunting bullets and self defense bullets are very different things.

Carry whichever makes you feel better, because neither are going to help you much if a bear tries to eat you.
 
EddieCoyle said:
Bears aren't people. Bullets for the .40 S&W are designed to be effective on people, not animals.

Hunting bullets and self defense bullets are very different things.

Carry whichever makes you feel better, because neither are going to help you much if a bear tries to eat you.
Click to expand...
Okay,
Are there any "hunting" bullets or bullets designed for stopping animals in hand gun loads? Any cal.?
 
PaiN said:
Okay,
Are there any "hunting" bullets or bullets designed for stopping animals in hand gun loads? Any cal.?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Among the best are magnum revolvers with lead "Keith" style bullets or heavy jacketed soft points.
 
It is important to note that it's not like bears eat bullets for breakfast. Several hits with a 40 S&W or 9mm round will hurt a bear, and some lucky people have stopped/driven off/killed bears with semi-automatic handguns. It's just non-ideal.
 
BEAR MACE, or get eaten, your choice. A charging bear moves at 35+ mph. Even if he starts 50 yards away that gives you seconds to react to a bear bounding towards you, and then clean the Sh** out of your pants, draw, aim(which is going to be hard to do at a bounding bear while shaking), and make several effective hits which will be necessary for the bear to even know your shooting. You'd be better off shooting in the air hoping the noise scares him. And if you were equipped with a can of bear mace, simply grab the can attached to your hip, turn to face bear, and hold the trigger. Now you have a scared bear that can't see or breath as opposed to a really pissed off bear that is dead set on making you a bear turd. Scared bears run, pissed off injured bears make a last stand effort to defend their lives and will gore you until they die.

Hunting is far different than any other activity where you would encounter a bear. You will most likely hunt from a stand over bait, and see the bear before it see's you. Hiking or during another such activity, the bear will see you long before you see it and decide whether to retreat or stand it's ground. If it decides to stand it's ground, it will be on you in seconds, leaving you so little time to prepare to fight that you will most likely panic and never even get a shot off.

Do as you please, but I have discussed this with numerous outdoor experts, and all have given the same advice, wear a bear bell and carry a can of bear mace.


Or buy a .500 mag and get some of EC's sub-nuclear reloads, as the muzzle flash and concussion will likely kill the bear all on it's own, or at least blind it and deafen long enough for you to actually do something other than get eaten.
 
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Kenny474 said:
Or buy a .500 mag and get some of EC's sub-nuclear reloads, as the muzzle flash and concussion will likely kill the bear all on it's own, or at least blind it and deafen long enough for you to actually do something other than get eaten.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, after firing one of those loads without eyes and ears, you'll ALSO be blind and deaf, so the two of you will either wander away from each other, or stumble into each other and let nature take it's amusing and final course
 
TheRoland said:
It is important to note that it's not like bears eat bullets for breakfast. Several hits with a 40 S&W or 9mm round will hurt a bear, and some lucky people have stopped/driven off/killed bears with semi-automatic handguns. It's just non-ideal.
Click to expand...


I wonder if you have ever killed a bear and recovered the bullet? I would much rather have bear spray.
 
TheRoland said:
It is important to note that it's not like bears eat bullets for breakfast. Several hits with a 40 S&W or 9mm round will hurt a bear, and some lucky people have stopped/driven off/killed bears with semi-automatic handguns. It's just non-ideal.
Click to expand...

"Some lucky people" are the key words in your statement, and also that "several rounds will hurt a bear". Most times you will not be lucky, thats why it's called luck, and you probably won't get several hits on a bounding bear. Those that have been successful in doing so are very lucky and few and far between. The others, well they are either bear poop or have the scars to prove their encounter. People don't hunt bears with 9mm or .40's for a reason, they are not effective. Also hurt bears are ten times more defensive than normal, and will be far more likely to attack whatever is hurting them.

Use a bear bell and bear mace, the bell will almost insure that you won't have any problem, and the mace is far easier to use under stress and is also more effective. It's also 10x cheaper than a pistol, and less likely to cause legal problems. The best weapon against bear attacks is being prepared and using your head, as most times with simple precautions you can avoid ever seeing a bear. Do a search for bear precautions and follow the advice you find, it will be far more helpful than any firearm you bring.
 
Kenny474 said:
BEAR MACE, or get eaten, your choice. A charging bear moves at 35+ mph. Even if he starts 50 yards away that gives you seconds to react to a bear bounding towards you, and then clean the Sh** out of your pants, draw, aim(which is going to be hard to do at a bounding bear while shaking), and make several effective hits which will be necessary for the bear to even know your shooting. You'd be better off shooting in the air hoping the noise scares him. And if you were equipped with a can of bear mace, simply grab the can attached to your hip, turn to face bear, and hold the trigger. Now you have a scared bear that can't see or breath as opposed to a really pissed off bear that is dead set on making you a bear turd. Scared bears run, pissed off injured bears make a last stand effort to defend their lives and will gore you until they die.

Hunting is far different than any other activity where you would encounter a bear. You will most likely hunt from a stand over bait, and see the bear before it see's you. Hiking or during another such activity, the bear will see you long before you see it and decide whether to retreat or stand it's ground. If it decides to stand it's ground, it will be on you in seconds, leaving you so little time to prepare to fight that you will most likely panic and never even get a shot off.

Do as you please, but I have discussed this with numerous outdoor experts, and all have given the same advice, wear a bear bell and carry a can of bear mace.


Or buy a .500 mag and get some of EC's sub-nuclear reloads, as the muzzle flash and concussion will likely kill the bear all on it's own, or at least blind it and deafen long enough for you to actually do something other than get eaten.
Click to expand...

It is very simple really, just make sure you are travelling with someone you can outrun. you don't have to outrun the bear, Just your hiking partner [smile]
 
If you use a .40S&W, make sure it's a sub-compact.

That way you can ram it and your whole arm down the bear's throat and hit some vitals.
 
Kenny474 said:
"Some lucky people" Also hurt bears are ten times more defensive than normal, and will be far more likely to attack whatever is hurting them.
Click to expand...

I got a 300 lb guy 2 years ago. I heart shot him from about 60 yards with a 100 grain Nosler partition and he ran about 40 yards with no blood pumping. A little hard to find him with no exit wound. Needless to say I was surprised he moved so quick and so far after getting shot. After we cut him open I was amazed I had a perfect heart shot. I would hate to see a bear get shot with a small pistol caliber. .40 gives you what? 400 ft lbs? The .243 is close to 2000.
 
If you think 428 ft/lbs is something you want to be pissing off a bear with I hope you can hit the tack at 50 yds.
 
Brown bears in CT?

I am no expert but I have encountered a black bear on 2 occasions while hunting deer in the Adirondacks. Both times they were hauling ass out of the area as fast as they could go. I see the potential for a problem with a black bear if you get in between a sow and her cub, but in general I think they are shy and run. I've had them come into our campsite in state parks looking for food or garbage. We'd bang some pots and yell and they'd run off to look for another dumpster or trash can. In general, your chance of having a problem with a bear in the northeast is slim - IMHO.
 
428ft/lbs likely isn't enough to push a projectile into a bear's vitals. You want more like a ft/ton. Think .460Mag.
 
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