Local Authorities Creating Gun Registry Databases

[GOAL]

Local Authorities Creating Gun Registry Databases


Gun Owners' Action League has recently received calls from members who are concerned about a new licensing requirement from some towns. According to the calls some local licensing authorities are requiring applicants, new or renewal, to turn in a complete list of the firearms (make, model and serial number) they own. GOAL would remind our members that there is no such requirement in the law.

"This is just another example of how out of control this system has gotten," said Jim Wallace Executive Director of GOAL. "There is absolutely no law that grants local licensing agents the authority to compile any kind of database on what lawful citizens own. It seems that some government agencies in Massachusetts have forgotten that if there is no law or regulation granting a specific authority then the government simply does not have it. Unlike citizens where laws are created to tell us what we can't do, the government's authority only exists when a law states what it can do! Government doesn't have rights, it has limited authority that must be limited to what we the people have granted it."

GOAL is urging any of our members who are confronted with this requirement to immediately notify GOAL headquarters and provide us with any documentation if possible. 508-393-5333 or [email protected]

 

[Admin]

It never ends...

 

[terraformer]

Anyone know what towns? I ask this because some towns work in blocks. I know that neighboring towns sometimes have similar policies because they coordinate. Knowing the towns can help folks understand what ones may come next.

 

[pdm]

What in the hell is going on? Did a whole bunch of people suddenly start drinking extra stupid in the morning?

 

[Lucas McCain]

So does this mean that if you refuse, you dont get your ticket? If you lie, you are a criminal. Sheesh

 

[JonJ]

Wow...

 

[theGringo]

Name the towns. Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[VTpro]

All towns should be named and exposed

 

[calsdad]

Knowing which towns are doing this would be extremely helpful - then pressure could be applied where it should be applied - at the local level.

 

[Trupo]

Just came accross this thread, if anyone has fallen victime to this, please post the town(s) that are engaging in this policy.

 

[Twigg]

So does this mean that if you refuse, you dont get your ticket? If you lie, you are a criminal. Sheesh

Yep. Another step down the slippery slope.

But, who would refuse ? After all its "reasonable" and you wouldn't have anything to hide.

Right ?

 

[john m]

O.K. How much cash & jewerly do you keep in your house? Let's keep that on public record Too! I ,am not giving you a hard time But how much info is too much? John in MA.

 

[Executive]

Any kitchen knives, archery equipment, chainsaws, zippo lighters, powder actuated tools, pneumatic tools...


Chris

 

[mikem317]

Huh?

Does this mean that they're going after the Fourth Amendment too?

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

There's no way I'm complying with this.

 

[EC1]

Without town names, this just seems like smoke.

 

[clinotus]

Huh?

Does this mean that they're going after the Fourth Amendment too?

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

There's no way I'm complying with this.

Thats the rub. You will comply with this if you want to keep your arms, you've invested quite an amount in hardware, time, and training by this point to make a stand on this issue.

It has to change at the legislative level.

 

[mikem317]

Thats the rub. You will comply with this if you want to keep your arms, you've invested quite an amount in hardware, time, and training by this point to make a stand on this issue.

It has to change at the legislative level.

I don't have to. And I won't.

 

[clinotus]

I don't have to. And I won't.

Play this out for me then, just how you would refuse the request at our level against the full authority of discretionary permission by the licensing chief.

I believe you can only fight this with legislation or deep pockets.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Play this out for me then, just how you would refuse the request at our level against the full authority of discretionary permission by the licensing chief.

I believe you can only fight this with legislation or deep pockets.

Not entirely true. I know first hand of a few people who simply responded "NO, it's not required by law and I'm not giving you that information" . . . and each of them got their LTC-A/ALP (none) issued w/o any hassle.

Not many have the guts to do this, but those that do sometimes win the battle and the war, at least for themselves. Some go into the process with head and shoulders bent over, carrying kneepads for kneeling down at the alter of the Licensing Authority . . . while others go upright and with backbone (while still being polite). Each person has to decide for themselves what and how they go about this process, and then live with the consequences thereafter.

 

[mikem317]

Play this out for me then, just how you would refuse the request at our level against the full authority of discretionary permission by the licensing chief.

I believe you can only fight this with legislation or deep pockets.

It also depends on when and how the data is being collected to be populated into the data warehouse. Is this at point of sale? Or is it solicited after the sale? I guess there's little one could do at point of sale.

 

[FPrice]

It also depends on when and how the data is being collected to be populated into the data warehouse. Is this at point of sale? Or is it solicited after the sale? I guess there's little one could do at point of sale.

According to the OP, "According to the calls some local licensing authorities are requiring applicants, new or renewal, to turn in a complete list of the firearms (make, model and serial number) they own.".

So it appears that you have to report to the Police Station with a full list of your firearms in hand. LenS states that he knows some people who have successfully refused. I hope that is so. But think if it were the Chief in Worcester, or some other equally difficult places. The implied threat is no license if you refuse, effectively making you a prohibited person. You can guess what would come next.

A big counter-point is that the state already knows what you own from in-state purchases.

The obvious course of action is to fight this now.

 

[FITH]

Ummm folks the info is out there already..... it is in a computer and they already have access to it. You don't believe me...????

 

[Len-2A Training]

Ummm folks the info is out there already..... it is in a computer and they already have access to it. You don't believe me...????

Maybe and only for newbies (that were born in MA) would there be any chance that it is complete.

A "few" of us have been gun owners since before 1998! Some have even moved into MA with guns and not "papered" them with the state (there is NO LEGAL requirement to do so if you move in with the guns).

I have "paper" on all my guns, but the state doesn't have all of that info any more . . . they threw some away (all pre-1998 "blue cards") and only kept dealer records from 1986 forward. Their problem, not mine.

According to a few LEOs here that have accessed that database to see what the state THINKS the officers have, there are major gaps in even the newer stuff.

The chiefs are welcome to pull the database on any/all applicants for renewal. Nothing we could do about it, but relying on that info would be fool-hardy for them.

 

[FITH]

Yes..only those who have purchased the guns and live in Ma. !!!

 

[6hold]

.
A friend of mine was just telling me within the last week or so that the BURLINGTON Police dept. asked him to fill out a separate form when he went for renewal. The form wanted to know what pistols he had, make, model and serial number. He told them that he didn’t have that info stored away in his head so they gave him the form to take home and fill out.

He said this was perhaps ten or twelve years ago that this occurred and that they haven’t asked him for this info the last time or two that he has gone in to renew. He also said that he may still have the form somewhere around the house and he’d look for it so I could see it.

If some towns are pulling this stunt now, as GOAL says, it seems just so plain WRONG! Perhaps GOAL could have a lawyer draw up a standardized statement that people renewing can produce to inform the licensing authority that it is not required and respectfully will not be implemented (please contact GOAL if you have any questions.)
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