38 spl/357 mag loads

[MegaPlinker]

I'm getting ready to start reloading these calibers and am looking for some powder/bullet recomendations for target loads.

Powder: Anyone have good results with win231 or power pistol? (I already use these for other loads) If not, what else?

Bullets: I am thinking of starting with plated or jacketed bullets in the 125-148 gr. range. I have not tried cast or wadcutter bullets before but would appreciate your opinions.

 

[RKG]

For nearly forever, the "standard" target load with a .38 Spl. is a 148-grain wadcutter (in my opinion, preferably a medium hard cast bevel base wadcutter) over 2.7 gr. of Bullseye. This is a superbly accurate load and quite inexpensive to load.

The only downside is that, because the charge is so small, a double charge may or may not be detected unless you are careful.

 

[EddieCoyle]

What RKG said.

I got an insane deal on several 1000's of 125gr FMJ's a while back that I've been loading over 4.4 grains of Bullseye. While very accurate, this load shoots quite high from my fixed sight revolvers. By "quite high" I mean that it shoots to point of aim at 100 yards from a 4" Model 10.

Since .38s seem to like faster burning propellants, of the two powders you mentioned, W231 would be better than Power Pistol. Cleaner too.

If you go with jacketed bullets, pay attention to the minimum charge recommendations and stick by them. If you try to download a jacketed .38 load, you run a strong risk of sticking one in the barrel. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I got a deal on 125gr jhp's a while back, so I picked up about 1500 or so. The load I've been using with them is 3.6 gr of red dot (.38 special). It's about the middle of the scale for the load data I had for those bullets. It's a pretty nice, light little target load.

 

[MegaPlinker]

I've seen some good prices on cast bullets but was thinking that the 357 would tend to lead the barrel with the high velocities. Are lead bullets worth the hassle for the mag?

 

[BIG GUN]

Both the 357 & 9mm Parabellum like very hard cast bullets if you are loading to max velocety. I use pure linotype for these, and a Keith style p.b. 158g swc bullet.

 

[MegaPlinker]

Thanks for the help guys. I just ordered some 125 gr jhp's, and 148 gr DEWC along with my dies and other goodies. I'm looking forward to working up these loads. BTW, has anyone tried Zero or Bushwacker bullets? The price was right but I'll find out about the quality soon.

 

[jacobtowne]

I've seen some good prices on cast bullets but was thinking that the 357 would tend to lead the barrel with the high velocities. Are lead bullets worth the hassle for the mag?

I believe that leading is not a factor of velocity, but rather hot gasses melting lead at the base of the bullet. My mid-range .38 Special loads cause leading. Some people use gas checks to prevent this.

WW231 is fine for .38 Special. I've used it for years. I buy hard cast bullets at the local gun shop. They are made in Maine by Northeastern Bullets.

2400 and Blue Dot (which I use) are good for .357 Magnum.

JT

 

[Scrivener]

I believe that leading is not a factor of velocity, but rather hot gasses melting lead at the base of the bullet.

I disagree. IME, pushing lead bullets at jacketed velocities - or even swaged lead and nominal lead velocities - strips material from the bullet and fouls the grooves.

The Lewis Lead Remover was created for a reason.

My target loads are swaged HBWCs over:

3.1 of 231
or
2.4 of Red Dot.

My Ruger certainly liked them. The Dan Wesson seems to, also.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I believe that leading is not a factor of velocity, but rather hot gasses melting lead at the base of the bullet.

Nope, not quite.

Hot gases are in contact with the bullet base for about 3 milliseconds in a handgun. The heat transfer characteristics of lead/lead alloy bullets simply do not allow enough heat transfer to accomplish melting during this short amount of time.

Lead deposited in the breach end the barrel (the most commonly encountered leading scenario in a handgun) is principally from gas cutting.

Due to a poor gas seal, the gases jet past an undersized or over-hard bullet. In a revolver, this is most severe in the cylinder throats - before the bullet even gets to the barrel. These gas jets blast the lead off the bullet and deposit it into the forcing cone and barrel. The poor gas seal is caused by either undersized bullets, oversized cylinder throats, or by using too hard an alloy with too small a powder charge. In order for a bullet to properly seal and eliminate gas cutting, it has to obturate (compress and deform) to "fill" first the throat and then the rifling. With light loads or over-hard alloys, the obturation never takes place and gas cutting is the result.

Although it seems counterintuitive, leading can often be eliminated by going to a softer alloy or larger powder charge.

I disagree. IME, pushing lead bullets at jacketed velocities - or even swaged lead and nominal lead velocities - strips material from the bullet and fouls the grooves.

This depends on what you mean by "jacketed velocities". Leading caused by pushing a bullet too hard usually occurs over the full length of the barrel, often getting worse near the muzzle. It's unusual to get that kind of velocity in a handgun. I routinely push hard cast lead past the 1300 fps mark with little or no leading. I use a properly sized, properly lubed bullet with an alloy that is correct for the velocity.

Your HBWC recommendation is good advice. Hollow based wadcutters (HBWC) were designed so that the impact of the powder gases on the hollow of the bullet will obturate the skirt to fill the throat and bore - thus eliminating gas cutting. This is why you'll see some of the lightest charges specified for HBWC lead bullets.

 

[Plink]

My .357 load is 6 gr Bullseye under a 158 gr lswc and I get no leading what so ever in a 4" model 19 Smith

 

[C-pher]

Not sure if you want my loads as all my .357 loads are "cowboy" loads.

And I pick up 147 grain 9mm heads sized for .357. I like those heads better, and since he'll size then for me at whatever I want...they work great. But they are lead.

But, it's those 147 grain LFP heads. Sitting on Remington UMC brass with (depending on what powder I have) 4.8 grains of Unique or 3.6 grains of Clays set to an OAL of 1.60.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Not sure if you want my loads as all my .357 loads are "cowboy" loads.

And I pick up 147 grain 9mm heads sized for .357. I like those heads better, and since he'll size then for me at whatever I want...they work great. But they are lead.

But, it's those 147 grain LFP heads. Sitting on Remington UMC brass with (depending on what powder I have) 4.8 grains of Unique or 3.6 grains of Clays set to an OAL of 1.60.

You have a source that'll custom size lead bullets? Any chance you could PM me with it?

 

[JonJ]

The title of this thread is:
38 spl/357 mag loads

 

[C-pher]

edited....wrong screen

 

[Admin]

Thank you Chris...

 

[jhrosier]

I've seen some good prices on cast bullets but was thinking that the 357 would tend to lead the barrel with the high velocities. Are lead bullets worth the hassle for the mag?

I shoot some good quality cast bullets in full house loads in my .357s with no leading issues. The bullets are 180gr and I'm pushing them with a near-max load of H110 or W296.
If your chamber throats, barrel throat, bore, and bullets are sized correctly, you will have no trouble approaching jacketed bullet velocities with medium to heavy bullets. This also requires a bullet of the correct hardness.
There are a number of cast bullet forums where you can explore the subject.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I shoot some good quality cast bullets in full house loads in my .357s with no leading issues. The bullets are 180gr and I'm pushing them with a near-max load of H110 or W296.
If your chamber throats, barrel throat, bore, and bullets are sized correctly, you will have no trouble approaching jacketed bullet velocities with medium to heavy bullets. This also requires a bullet of the correct hardness.
There are a number of cast bullet forums where you can explore the subject.

Very well put.

Unfortunately, I'm cursed with a fairly new S&W 625 with very consistent, but oversized chambers (0.456"). I was considering sending the whole thing back to S&W for a new cylinder. However, my new buddy C-Pher sent me a source for oversized lead bullets that I'm going to try first.

 

[MegaPlinker]

Thanks for all the help guys. Just what I was looking for to start feeding my new wheel gun.

 

[Scrivener]

I highly recommend the poly-coated bullets. Cost over mere cast is minimal, yet they shoot as clean as jacketed and are fully encapsulated.

What's not to like?

 

[TonyD]

I highly recommend the poly-coated bullets. Cost over mere cast is minimal, yet they shoot as clean as jacketed and are fully encapsulated.

What's not to like?

1) Where are you getting poly-coated bullets?

2) Would one load these from lead data, fmj data, or other?

Thanks

 

[Scrivener]

1) Where are you getting poly-coated bullets?

2) Would one load these from lead data, fmj data, or other?

Thanks

1. I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you!
(check your PM)

2. Use LEAD data.

 

[TonyD]

1. I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you!
(check your PM)

2. Use LEAD data.

Thanks, but remember, I'm in a free state where it doesn't matter. I'll check, and thanks again for the info.

EDIT: no PM, as of yet.

 

[Scrivener]

Thanks, but remember, I'm in a free state where it doesn't matter. I'll check, and thanks again for the info.

EDIT: no PM, as of yet.

YOU are; we aren't. I don't list sources on open boards for that reason.

Check your PM!

 

[C-pher]

My poly coated source is no longer in business... I just found that out..

Well, not of yet. And all e-mails to the owner, that I've always talked to, are returned as undeliverable.

 

[TonyD]

Interesting. The poly-moly, whatever-coated bullets are more expensive for 9mm than the fmj's I currently use. However, 45's are somewhat cheaper.

Does anyone know for a fact that these can be put through a Glock or H&K without problems?

Keith, thanks for the info.

 

[C-pher]

Interesting. The poly-moly, whatever-coated bullets are more expensive for 9mm than the fmj's I currently use. However, 45's are somewhat cheaper.

Does anyone know for a fact that these can be put through a Glock or H&K without problems?

Keith, thanks for the info.

Really? The place that I was getting them didn't charge any extra for Moly coated heads. When you placed your order, you had several choices. Hard and Soft, and moly or not, lubed or not... Didn't matter, all the same price.

 

[Scrivener]

Really? The place that I was getting them didn't charge any extra for Moly coated heads.

We've already discussed and dismissed that "heads" nonsense.

 

[C-pher]

Potato - Potahto

It's a widely used word in other regions. Just because you don't use the word "pop" up here to describe soda doesn't mean it's not a word.

I will try to substitute bullet for head when I think about it. But when I'm just typing, I don't always think about it as it's a word I've used for a very long time.

Just like if I don't think about it, I still ask for a Pop when asked what I would like to drink.



Anyway, unless we're using the same place. Can you send me over the info for Molly coated bullets. I have a feeling you know who I used to use.

 

[Admin]

Let's leave the "Heads" dicussion to PM if you ladies want to continue it.