38/357 Dies

[RustyD]

I have a set of Lee 357 Mag dies from a freind. I am assuming I will need a differant expander and seater/crimp die to load 38's?
The decapper says 38/357 but others don't? Since 38 is shorter can these dies be adj for 38?

 

[EddieCoyle]

Since 38 is shorter can these dies be adj for 38?

Yes.

You'll have to adjust the height of the expander, seater, and crimp.

 

[RustyD]

Can only adjust die height and seater plug, guess this 357 die will not crimp
38's.

 

[center442]

Can only adjust die height and seater plug, guess this 357 die will not crimp
38's.

What EC said.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you should be able to crimp your .38's by adjusting the die body down a little further (the die height) into the press. The crimping shoulder is normally built into the main part of the die body, so adjusting the height of the die should get you where you want to go. The seating plug will have to be adjusted according to the bullet that you're using.

My .357 dies can all be used with both .38's and .357's. The only real difference between the two cartridges is that the .357 is about 1/10 of an inch longer than the .38.

Rusty, if you're still having trouble with the dies, PM me. I think you're in SE MA; I'm in the Fall River area. I could take a look at your dies to see if there's a problem.

 

[RustyD]

I have adjusted it all the way down but no go?

 

[RKG]

1) The difference in dimensions from .38 Special to .357 Magnum (and the only difference) is 0.135" case length.

2) Rather than adjusting and readjusting dies (a sure way to make a mistake), try this:

Find someone who is a good machinist who can make you a washer/spacer that is exactly 0.135" thick and has an ID that will pass the die body. Now, adjust your sizer for FL sizing (i.e., raise the ram up, screw the die down to contact, if (and only if) non-carbide, lower the ram and screw the die in a further 1/4 turn, and lock the ring.

Now, put in the belling die, insert a sized .38 Special case, and adjust the die for the proper amount of belling. Lock the ring. Use the die like this for belling .38s. For .357s, use the die with the same setting, but put the spacer under the lock ring before screwing the die down.

Ditto for the seater.

I've done it this way for umpteen years. I have another spacer, 0.125" thick, that does the same thing for .44 Special and .44 Magnum.

 

[Dick]

I have adjusted it all the way down but no go?

All relatively modern .357 seating/crimp dies will also work for .38 Special, but I believe some of the very old .357 dies are long enough so that they contact the shellholder before they'll crimp the shorter shell. If that's the case with yours, it would be relatively inexpensive to simply add a .38 Special seat/crimp die to your set - the resizing and expanding/belling dies should work fine, as you probably already know.

 

[RustyD]

All relatively modern .357 seating/crimp dies will also work for .38 Special, but I believe some of the very old .357 dies are long enough so that they contact the shellholder before they'll crimp the shorter shell. If that's the case with yours, it would be relatively inexpensive to simply add a .38 Special seat/crimp die to your set - the resizing and expanding/belling dies should work fine, as you probably already know.

I think that is the case. It hits the ram before the case.

Although when I load WC it is still shaving off a minute 1/3 ring of lead? I just run my gloved thumb arounf the crimp groove to remove it but just don't seem righ.

 

[Dick]

Although when I load WC it is still shaving off a minute 1/3 ring of lead? I just run my gloved thumb arounf the crimp groove to remove it but just don't seem righ.

I've probably loaded more .38/.357 148 gr hollow-base wadcutter rounds than everything else put together - many, many thousands of them over the last few decades. You shouldn't be shaving any lead from WCs or any other lead bullet - if you are, then you need to bell the case mouths a bit more, or it's possible (but highly unlikely) that the particular bullets you're using have been sized to too large a diameter. Another possibility is that your seating stem shape isn't appropriate for the bullet nose shape and it is trying to start the bullet into the case at an angle, which will shave lead even if everything else is correct.

I sometimes also see a very fine semicircle of lead appearing at the case mouth after I seat a bullet. This appears to happen when the shape of the bullet is such that the bullet rim protrudes slightly above the center portion, and the bullet seats just a hair above the case mouth - then, when the crimp is applied it squeezes a bit of lead off. I just ignore it (but adjust my seater stem) and those cartridges shoot just fine.

But . . . if you're not able to crimp your cases then it's unlikely that you're having exactly the same thing happening, and it also sounds like you're not seating your bullets flush with the case mouth. That's acceptable with DEWCs, which often have a crimping groove close to the end, but I seat both types fully inside the case, and have found that the HBWCs are more accurate with the very soft-shooting target loads I use most often.

 

[RustyD]

I too believe the case mouths are not being belled enough as this happend to me w/ 45LC and I belled them a tad more. So this should lead me to believe I need 2 more dies. I lone buying new sh*t but hate spending money.

I planned on seating them flush then after a few loads I figured the groove was there cause thats where U r suppose to seat them to.

 

[Dick]

So this should lead me to believe I need 2 more dies. I lone buying new sh*t but hate spending money.

I guess you're saying that you have the expander die screwed down as far as it will go (i.e., touching the shellholder) and the center stem also screwed down as far as it will go, and you're still not getting enough belling? If that's the case, then a new die is what you need, but I'm surprised to hear that you can't get enough bell with the die you have.

If you really do need two dies, then you may be getting to the point where it makes more sense to get a whole new set, which will handle both .38 and .357. Do you already have a carbide sizer? If not, then a new carbide set is the way to go.

Another possibility, if money is really short, is to grind some of the bottom off your expander and seater dies. That will definitely take care of your problem, though depending on your skill level it may be a bit ugly (it certainly would be if I did it!). But if they're not working for you now there's not much to lose, and you won't be any worse off if you don't like the final result.

 

[RustyD]

So the word is in, they will NOT work. New dies are on the way. Only the 38's work for 357's. Even the dies were scarce I had to check a few places.

 

[WILDCATT]

38/357

rusty said they were lee dies and marked 38/357.some thing is wrong some where.I have them and they work fine.does the sizing die have the carbide ring?

 

[RustyD]

rusty said they were lee dies and marked 38/357.some thing is wrong some where.I have them and they work fine.does the sizing die have the carbide ring?

Nope, never said that if you read the first post. Like I said, LEE says NO and if you read the last post the reason why.