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chief vs. statute

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Baz70

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Hi all, new member here.
After a long layoff with no guns (23 years). I have applied for my LTC in MA. I have read, read more and researched about the current laws in MA. I do have a question that hopefully some of the experts here can hopefully clarify for me as it applies to my situation.
the question: Does the statute regarding prohibited persons absolutely tie a police chiefs hands to deny?

My situation: I am a prohibited person as per the statute. Back in 94 I caught 2 misdemeanor domestics. I assure the audience here there was absolutely no violence in either case by either party. I left someone, they didn't like it, and found "revenge" via police was their chosen grief mechanism..

I was young, couldn't afford an attorney and ended up with a public defender (read plea bargainer). The complainant tried to drop charges, would not testify, etc. The state picked up the charges based on the police reports (testimony of complainant), back then, that's just what the D.A.'s did.. I ended up taking the advice of the public defender and pleading guilty to one charge. What an epic mistake this was. I was stupid, ignorant to the consequences and just wanting it "over". (feels like a fatal mistake)

I grew up in a sporting family. My father was a MA state trooper and avid sportsman and my 3 older brothers were hunters as well. I grew up around guns, carried my dad's gun in the woods and learned gun safety from someone who carried a gun for a job and carried one as sportsman. I had my FID as soon as the law permitted (I forget the age). I always shot and hunted until all this shit happened. I honestly don't recall 100% but I think I had to give up my FID immediately following the first charge?
Life went on after court, and I had 2 kids (any guesses with who?). I never followed up or pursued any of the consequences of my mess in court. I wasn't interested in guns, shooting, etc. I got busy raising kids and followed other interests.
So here I am. 47 years old with a grown son who just got his LTC. I wasn't able to teach him basic gun safety as it was taught to me. He has shot a few times with other people and I have no idea/confidence in their gun safety skill set. Regardless of that, I just want to shoot with him. I know he has a genuine interest in it. I want to be able to share this passion/hobby/sport with my son as my father did with his sons.
I just turned in my application. I briefly explained my conviction as above.
I fully expect to be denied, but I applied nonetheless.
Can a police chief issue a license regardless of the lifetime prohibition? To me it seems "no" but I am not a lawyer.
Do I have any recourse via an appeal etc.? Again, my gut says "no" based on how I interpret the statute.
All this said, I see where many people have been able to get licensed regardless of their "prohibited" classification. I haven't been able to find any instances similar to mine regarding a conviction of a "violent crime" with initial application success/failure or appeal success/failure.
thank you for reading and for any helpful input. At this point, I am trying to gain knowledge on a strategy after denial and whether or not I even have an option there. I want to be fully prepared to move forward as swiftly as possible if I do in fact have options there
Thank you again. This is a great resource. I will continue to read, search and learn on these forums.
 
Even if you COULD get a licensing authority to issue a permit, chances are you would be a Federally Prohibited Person, and there is no way around that, short of going back to court and appealing or some other legal magic.

You might argue ineffective counsel and ask for a new trial.

How much money do you have?

I have a friend here in NH, that after a denial, did get a permit issued, and went down to the local gunsmith and was denied when the dealer called Concord.
 
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I only read the first half, and I'm assuming you are correct that your conviction is a disqualifier, it certainly sounds like it. But the simple answer is NO, the CoP can not set aside a statutory disqualifier.

The CoP can add anything as a disqualifier under Suitability, but cannot set anything aside. Suitability can be used for the most minor event.

There is an appeal process for juvenile offences but that doesn't apply in your case.

I assume you revealed the situation on your LTC application (I'm surprised they didn't just turn you away), you'd be in a lot more trouble if you omitted it. So now you're just waiting for your denial.

You could try for a pardon with restoration of rights from the Governor. I wouldn't get my hopes up, Mark Wahlberg couldn't get one.

BTW I can relate to this, I was very active in the shooting world until my ex (then wife) got an RO, there were non-violent charges that were CWOF/dismissed, so I don't even have any convictions. 20 years later, my son has his LTC I want to get back involved and I was denied for Suitability. So I'm not Fed PP and there is no statutory disqualifier but I'm still denied. The funny part is that I have non-resident permits for both NH and Utah (it's a reciprocity thing, most states I can CC). Doesn't make it any less frustrating that I can't get an LTC in my home town.

Oh, and IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer)
 
I suggest you check with a good firearms lawyer to make sure You are prohibited per the statute. Since they were misdemeanors you may not be prohibited.
 
if you're a prohibited person, you are prohibited. it doesn't mean "maybe prohibited" or "up to the chief". If you are prohibited by statute, how is "will the chief issue?" a question?
 
appraiser said:
IANAL but misdemeanor DV convictions are IMHO opinion a federal disqualification.

https://www.justice.gov/usam/crimin...ons-possession-firearms-individuals-convicted
Click to expand...

Well, that sucks. And the vote was nearly unanimous. What happened to this country? Did they forget spouses/sig. others can lie.

It it seems to me there was something in the law saying that a spouses testimony didn’t hold the weight of a third party testimony.

Maybe BostonAsphalt can comment on this.
 
Have you discussed with a competent firearms attorney like Jason Guida?

It may be too late now since you've applied...but it wouldn't hurt to talk with him. I am not a lawyer so unfortunately I have no idea what legal recourse you have here.
 
Much of this was the result of the Lautenberg Amendment, one of the worst pieces of legislation ever enacted.

There was a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court last year, but the guy that was challenging his arrest and conviction frankly was not the guy that should have been the test case. The SCOUS upheld the conviction and Lautenberg will stand til hell freezes over.

http://bangordailynews.com/2016/06/...n-maine-mens-challenge-in-gun-ownership-case/


Remember MA had their own version of Lautenberg so the Fed law was just a formality.

A well intentioned law that ruined a lot of cops careers when vinditcive Ex wifes, GF's etc used a 209A order as leverage,because there is no exemption for LEO, There are lots of cops that "carry on the badge" and can't take their weapon home or carry off duty, due to legal issues of one sort or another, but Lautenberg was sure to make sure there was no LEO or military exemption. Everyone was screwed equally.
 
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These are the responses I was expecting. I was hoping there would be some recourse, but the lights just got really dim in here.
It blows my mind that there is no statute of limitations. A rather broad brush to paint life without parol with.
Thank you all for responding.

- - - Updated - - -

MAJoe said:
Have you discussed with a competent firearms attorney like Jason Guida?

It may be too late now since you've applied...but it wouldn't hurt to talk with him. I am not a lawyer so unfortunately I have no idea what legal recourse you have here.
Click to expand...
I did reach out to him via email this past Friday. I hope he replies this coming week.
 
The way out of this, if you are willing and have the funds, is to find a damn good criminal lawyer that will go in and file an appeal or otherwise plead your case that you had ineffective counsel that did not explain to you the ramifications of an Alford Plea, CWOF or guilty plea. You did what you did under advise of counsel and it was represented to you it was a nothing charge and it would have no impact on anything in the future.

If you get past that obstacle, you are either going to go to trial, or the DA may decline to prosecute.

There are others who have found themselves in similar situations due to a 50 year old DWI case.

Back in the day, if you got a DWI, you would pay $62.50 in court costs and head to the bar.

Now people who paid the $62.50 because the Lawyer said to, have had their LTC's revoked or were refused renewal.

These are people that had LTC's for years and got caught up in a revision to the law.

I am not a Lawyer, this is not legal advice, but if you spend the $ to sit down with a competent Lawyer for a consultation, I would bet you would get the same advice.
 
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my pockets are by no means deep, but I do have the willingness to proceed if it seems feasible.
 
Are you 100% certain it was a conviction and not a CWOF? Can you get the old court records to confirm the charge and conviction? Do NOT post specifics about it in a public forum. One other thing I would suggest is you see if you can withdraw your application until you get the chance to verify your records and speak with an attorney. By withdrawing your application you will prevent yourself from having a "deny" on your record as well because you will need to enter that in all future applications should you be able to change your previous incident.
 
Baz70 said:
These are the responses I was expecting. I was hoping there would be some recourse, but the lights just got really dim in here.
It blows my mind that there is no statute of limitations. A rather broad brush to paint life without parol with.
Thank you all for responding.

- - - Updated - - -

I did reach out to him via email this past Friday. I hope he replies this coming week.
Click to expand...

With respect, I’m not sure you know what either “statute of limitations“ or “life without parole” means.

And IANAL either, but since I’m chiming in I think you’re one of the many, many people who’ve been screwed by a DV “justice” system that works under an abundance of caution.

Not to pile on, but as I think you know your son shouldn’t ever let you handle his guns either. The only thing worse than your situation would be to get him jammed up over something even dumber.

Good luck, but I don’t think it matters.
 
I ran a CORI on myself and it came back as a conviction. Having read my CORI and using my memory as best I can, I do believe that it was indeed a conviction as stated on the CORI. I was definitely given probation, so yes I am sure. Unfortunately.
 
Thank you,
I was using the terms very loosely as they relate to being FFL based on historical determinations that render little to no insight into a person's suitability to exercise constitutional rights.
And no, I would never put my son in a position to be scrutinized by law.
 
Baz70 said:
I ran a CORI on myself and it came back as a conviction. Having read my CORI and using my memory as best I can, I do believe that it was indeed a conviction as stated on the CORI. I was definitely given probation, so yes I am sure. Unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Do you remember what court it was? Can you go and request your records? That's where I would start first, pending what Atty. Guida says.
 
The good advice here is to contact a lawyer conversant with firearms law. One also conversant with criminal defense would be ideal. There is an extremely narrow (and maybe expensive) path to a LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

Good advice. Get a certified copy of the Docket Sheet. Any lawyer you talk to is going to need to see that.

MAJoe said:
Do you remember what court it was? Can you go and request your records? That's where I would start first, pending what Atty. Guida says.
Click to expand...
 
MAJoe said:
Do you remember what court it was? Can you go and request your records? That's where I would start first, pending what Atty. Guida says.
Click to expand...
Yes, I do. I am headed there tomorrow. Anything specific I should request?
 
appraiser said:
A well intentioned law that ruined a lot of cops careers when vinditcive Ex wifes, GF's etc used a 209A order as leverage,because there is no exemption for LEO, There are lots of cops that "carry on the badge" and can't take their weapon home or carry off duty, due to legal issues of one sort or another, but Lautenberg was sure to make sure there was no LEO or military exemption. Everyone was screwed equally.
Click to expand...
I have a buddy who has been a cop for like 17 years. His ex just pulled this BS on him and he is now out of a career.
 
Baz70 said:
Yes, I do. I am headed there tomorrow. Anything specific I should request?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I'm not the right person to ask on the specifics. Hopefully someone else here more in the know than I chimes in.
 
Does the statute regarding prohibited persons absolutely tie a police chiefs hands to deny?
Click to expand...
Yes. The FRB will run a check and deny even if the chief's designee tries to issue it via MIRCS.

All aforemetioned comments regarding federal PP status restated as if enumerated in full.

The only options if it is a conviction are getting the case re-opened and a non-conviction disposition or a MA governor's pardon. For "records stuff", I would suggest Guida, though there are a few other competent attorneys such as Keith Langer.

Pardon applications have a "are you requesting restoration of gun rights?" question, so you will not "sneak in" by claiming you just want to remove a stain on your name - you have to ask for your gun rights back so that the state can use that request as a basis to deny the pardon. I know one person who has a pardon w/gun rights, but that goes back to the King dynasty.

One of the most important decisions someone can make is to marry the right person.
Click to expand...
One of?
 
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thank you all very much. I appreciate all the advice and comments. a lawyer is clearly the first step.
 
appraiser said:
Much of this was the result of the Lautenberg Amendment, one of the worst pieces of legislation ever enacted.

There was a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court last year, but the guy that was challenging his arrest and conviction frankly was not the guy that should have been the test case. The SCOUS upheld the conviction and Lautenberg will stand til hell freezes over.

http://bangordailynews.com/2016/06/...n-maine-mens-challenge-in-gun-ownership-case/


Remember MA had their own version of Lautenberg so the Fed law was just a formality.

A well intentioned law that ruined a lot of cops careers when vinditcive Ex wifes, GF's etc used a 209A order as leverage,because there is no exemption for LEO, There are lots of cops that "carry on the badge" and can't take their weapon home or carry off duty, due to legal issues of one sort or another, but Lautenberg was sure to make sure there was no LEO or military exemption. Everyone was screwed equally.
Click to expand...

There shouldn't be a LE exemption. Let them suffer with the rest of us. Then they are more likely to support the cause.
 
prohibited person means prohibited person. like others said.......even if mass gave you a license (certainly not probable as they can deny in mass on "opinion" of suitability alone) how are you going to buy a fire arm at a gun shop when you fill out the form honestly?
 

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