Selectmen order Granby Bow and Gun Club to shut down controversial half-mile-long

[JJ4]

Yes, probably correct. I'm not well versed to the ins and outs of the requirements of public disclosure and proper procedure. Also, having thought this was a "hearing".

Did they "close the public hearing" at the end of the last meeting? If so, the hearing itself would not be open, and they would be just having a meeting to deliberate and decide.

Note that if it's not a hearing then they cannot allow any additional comments during the meeting, as far as I know. Also note that open meeting law requires that they have not deliberated the issue outside of a posted open meeting. So, legally all deliberations have to happen at these meetings.

 

[RImike]

Here are what I believe are the pubic notice(s): http://www.granby-ma.gov/Pages/GranbyMA_MeetingCal/S025C1DD9-025C1DDB.0/Assessors12.18.17.pdf and http://www.granby-ma.gov/Pages/GranbyMA_MeetingCal/S025C1DCC-025C1DCF.0/12-18-17-ZBA.pdf

Good luck reading the latter

 

[vicorjh]

Up on their calendar, now. Granby, MA - Meeting Calendar

I'm planning on heading that way early to beat the traffic. If anyone would like to meet beforehand for a bite to eat, let me know...

 

[ryder198]

Bump for tomorrow. Please come out and support the club and 2 a if you are able.

 

[wahsben]

**REMINDER**
Tonight is the FINAL ZBA Meeting - Deliberation and decision regarding the club’s appeal. Please attend!!
Date / Time: 12/18/2017 @ 6:30pm (Meet @ 5:30pm to get in line for best seating). Small venue.
Location:
Old Library / Basement
1 Library Ln
Granby, MA

Thank you to all that have attended and to those that have contributed. I plan on being there tonight.

 

[vicorjh]

ZBA:
Noted that the club is allowed to operate due to grandfathering since no zoning was required at the time.
Cease and desist stands for the 1K range.
Something about the biomix voted down (overheard the opposing consul saying they were going to contact the board of health,now).
Validity of 2010 special permit was noted as having been expired.
ZBA agreed that the club has engaged in expanded use (namely the 1K range). Noted that the club can apply for expansion of use.

Minimal discussion. Just votes on the pending items.

 

[wahsben]

The cease and desist also still stands for the covered firing line too. The club can make the applications for the 1000yd. range and the Covered range for approval according to what the board said but in talking with another member they told me that the club has done that but the applications aren't being approved. I'm not sure but it definitely seems like the boards plan is to waste the clubs time and money.

 

[Noreaster]

Something about the biomix voted down (overheard the opposing consul saying they were going to contact the board of health,now).
Validity of 2010 special permit was noted as having been expired.

Selectmen want review of BioMix deliveries to Granby Bow and Gun Club

"BioMix is a manufactured topsoil that is highly resistant to erosion. BioMix ingredients are Fiberlime (short paper fiber), compost, and a mineral base soil - most of which we source from residual streams that would otherwise go to waste. Most cost-effective is when an end user can provide a suitable base soil (mineral sand or a low quality loam), then we provide the Fiberlime and compost, recipe blend recommendations, and technical assistance to mix the blend onsite.

"BioMix has been used to stabilize soils and establish grass cover on over 100 construction sites since 1990. ..."

 

[vicorjh]

"We are very dissatisfied by the way the meeting took place -- less than ten minutes to deliberate and render a decision," said attorney Justin Raphaelson, who represented the club during the appeal, following the meeting.

 

[Mountain]

I was up in Northern NH and couldn't attend. Some questions, in case anyone knows the answers:

• So basically the ZBA decision is status quo for the shut down?
• Is the 1,000 yard cease and desist permanent; or only until expanded use application is approved (if it is approved)?
• While I disagree with the 1,000 yard range issue; the continued cease and desist for the covered area seems vindictive (assuming that's still in place). That pavilion is built like a tank and by now would have had any very minor code issues corrected. Was there any mention of how to get that structure out of double secret probation?

Thanks...

 

[wahsben]

I was up in Northern NH and couldn't attend. Some questions, in case anyone knows the answers:

• So basically the ZBA decision is status quo for the shut down?
• Is the 1,000 yard cease and desist permanent; or only until expanded use application is approved (if it is approved)?
• While I disagree with the 1,000 yard range issue; the continued cease and desist for the covered area seems vindictive (assuming that's still in place). That pavilion is built like a tank and by now would have had any very minor code issues corrected. Was there any mention of how to get that structure out of double secret probation?

Thanks...

Yes it is the status quo as far as the covered and 1,000yd. range go. The C&D is not permanent they did say an application can be submitted but as you said "if it is approved" if it's not than it basically is permanent. As far as I know the club can re-submit an application for a permit for the covered firing line but again if denied not good.

 

[Mountain]

Thanks. I really don't get the covered firing line issue. If it's not simply an issue of correcting a lack of correct permitting procedure, that says a lot about the ZBA.

 

[vicorjh]

I was up in Northern NH and couldn't attend. Some questions, in case anyone knows the answers:

• So basically the ZBA decision is status quo for the shut down?
• Is the 1,000 yard cease and desist permanent; or only until expanded use application is approved (if it is approved)?
• While I disagree with the 1,000 yard range issue; the continued cease and desist for the covered area seems vindictive (assuming that's still in place). That pavilion is built like a tank and by now would have had any very minor code issues corrected. Was there any mention of how to get that structure out of double secret probation?

Thanks...

As far as I can tell, nothing has changed in their stance except for the biomix issue (says not going to pursue whatever they were looking into since they "cannot prove quantity delivered". Voted down).
Cease and desist remains in place, which I believe was called "temporary" but seems essentially permanent since it was voted to remain in place.
Agreed, the vote to forbid use of covered pavilion seems vindictive. Someone earlier mentioned that an inspector "found" a very minor issue with the structure on inspection. Which was subsequently remedied.

There was very little discussion. No discussion of the facts in the matter or how they derived their decisions. Of the few comments being made by the board, one was that the club can apply for permits.

The club has a certain amount of time after the written decisions to bring this to court, I think.

I believe the Belchertown town administrator was there sitting with the board in order to throw his weight around (literal and figurative sense). Here is one example comment publicly made by him previously (not at this meeting), "the abutters of this facility who are sincere in their commitment to being good neighbors have been harassed, accused of being newbiews, nimbies, tree huggers, antis and weirdos in spite of the fact that many have openly suggested they own firearms and are not against the Club but rather are hardworking families owning millions of dollars of real estate and simply want their right to assume a normal life in the homes they reside in."

 

[JJ4]

There was very little discussion. No discussion of the facts in the matter or how they derived their decisions. Of the few comments being made by the board, one was that the club can apply for permits.

Was there any indication that they deliberated or discussed outside of the public meeting? If so they may have violated the open meeting law.

It sounds like they came into the meeting already under a consensus for a decision...

 

[vicorjh]

Was there any indication that they deliberated or discussed outside of the public meeting? If so they may have violated the open meeting law.

It sounds like they came into the meeting already under a consensus for a decision...

Feels that way, but how does one prove this?

There was some, perhaps minor, observable discussion and passing around of documents between the board members before the meeting was called to order.

The attorneys were there as well so I'd think they'd be tuned into this. The club attorney did note disappointment in the quality/quantity of the discussion that took place.

 

[42!]

Feels that way, but how does one prove this?

There was some, perhaps minor, observable discussion and passing around of documents between the board members before the meeting was called to order.

The attorneys were there as well so I'd think they'd be tuned into this. The club attorney did note disappointment in the quality/quantity of the discussion that took place.

Any emails they may have exchanged with each other or regarding town business with anyone are public record and subject to a information request. Most towns choose to ignore the implications of this and their board and committee members continue to use personal email addresses, and often exchange email that could be considered "deliberation". I brought this up with several in my town's government including the towns Director of Technology, but they just don't care. Personally I have a separate email address for all my town stuff.

My point is, all the ZBA members, BoS, and town administrator probably won't like having to turn over all their email, particularly if it's their personal account. And any ZBA member who claims there is no email would be lying IMO, no way they didn't get at least one email from a resident about this.

 

[RImike]

F-It, sell off the property and build section 8 housing, F them in the A!

 

[wmass]

F-It, sell off the property and build section 8 housing, F them in the A!

my thoughts exactly. Send all the neighbors a notice of intent. Due to the difficulty of continued operation of the range we have chosen to sell to a developer for the creation of housing for lower income earners

 

[Asaltweapon]

I'm pretty sure churches are easier to get thru than a 40B. Something like a nice peaceful mosque. Not knowing the area well perhaps a Chinese church. Those who are driving to church will have the neighbors wishing for the sound of gunfire.

 

[free]

I'm pretty sure churches are easier to get thru than a 40B. Something like a nice peaceful mosque. Not knowing the area well perhaps a Chinese church. Those who are driving to church will have the neighbors wishing for the sound of gunfire.

What is a "Chinese Church?" And what would be wrong with one? Are you that much of a neanderthal?

 

[Dadstoys]

Someone from the club needs to get on the schedule for the next meeting and ask for some information regarding how many 40 B units could be legally built on the acreage the club owns.
"We're just considering our options should the club be forced out of operation"
That should get some attention.

 

[Asaltweapon]

What is a "Chinese Church?" And what would be wrong with one? Are you that much of a neanderthal?

 

[Mountain]

Why that looks like some prime hog farming' land! Free range, antibiotic, organic piggies!

Seriously, what a bunch of noncooperative, passive-aggressive grade-A douchenozzles. So that's 3 meetings to basically say that nothing is happening at this meeting, and the club can submit for permits so that we can have another 3 meetings to do nothing.

 

[Manomet]

While it's unfortunate the club finds itself in this position and their ranges have been closed, if they had done things within the existing rules (ie. applied for building permits or expanded use special permits) they would not find themselves in this position. If it were a business opening up on mainstreet it would fall under the same scrutiny and rules. It is easy to feel like your being picked on, play by the rules and be denied and then you have something to complain about. With all the people out there trying to restrict the rights of gun owners/users I don't understand why we don't act first instead of after we get caught.

 

[groundscrapers]

While it's unfortunate the club finds itself in this position and their ranges have been closed, if they had done things within the existing rules (ie. applied for building permits or expanded use special permits) they would not find themselves in this position. If it were a business opening up on mainstreet it would fall under the same scrutiny and rules. It is easy to feel like your being picked on, play by the rules and be denied and then you have something to complain about. With all the people out there trying to restrict the rights of gun owners/users I don't understand why we don't act first instead of after we get caught.

The clubs opinion is that since shooters always had access out to 1k yds (albeit not safe) it wasn't an expanded use but maintenance to make that distance safer to shoot from.

 

[JJ4]

A rifle range is a rifle range. The expanded use is BS, there is no expanded use. Expanded use would be like "rifle range and now also concert venue". Expanded use has to do with adding additional uses, not to "more of the same use".

 

[Asaltweapon]

A rifle range is a rifle range. The expanded use is BS, there is no expanded use. Expanded use would be like "rifle range and now also concert venue". Expanded use has to do with adding additional uses, not to "more of the same use".

I'm not on the towns side but it's called a site plan review.
I hate planning boards and town government.

Everybody yells play the 40B card however to do it right and get them talking costs $$$$. Does Granby have an affordable housing plan and is it up to date? Is the 10% quota been met?
Lotta questions need answers but the more "hick" the town is the more likely you will find stupid people sending emails in violation of the law but it takes a lawyer to get that ball started. Doesn't meen you automatically win either.

I know zero about the demographics of Granby. I will say that I will never develop land for as long as I live ever again. So much back room BS off the record. It costs a lot of money to give the town a pee pee slap and you have not won shit.

 

[GM-GUY]

Fill out the permit applications, request an inspection of the covered firing line and see what happens. If it doesn't work, figure out a way to make it as objectionable as possible to the neighbors, some plywood angling sound towards them, extending shooting hours have dawn high power classes and competitions.

 

[Mountain]

Fill out the permit applications, request an inspection of the covered firing line and see what happens. If it doesn't work, figure out a way to make it as objectionable as possible to the neighbors, some plywood angling sound towards them, extending shooting hours have dawn high power classes and competitions.

I have an equivalent solution that won't cost the club a dime. Repeal the club ban on 50 BMG. I'll be ready to go at the opening hour, and have a lot of LC ammo that needs to become LC brass for reloads. Uncovered firing line is better, so no problem if pavilion still closed.

Noticed something unusual about this ZBA issue. For Westminster, we knew the names of the opposition. Why the secrecy for Granby? I don't recall any names or addresses...

 

[TurdFerguson]

I'd be willing to assist in a little early morning symphony