Plan too. Let's see when scheduled.
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Selectmen order Granby Bow and Gun Club to shut down controversial half-mile-long
- Thread starter larueminati
- Start date
Plan too. Let's see when scheduled.
Just wondering here:
What kind of fantasy world do you have to live in to think it's a great idea to piss off people with high powered sniper rifles that cost more than their car, bullets that cost dollars per round, and by your own description have no friends and spend all their free time shooting incredibly long distances with pinpoint accuracy to fill a void in their lives? (how some commenters on the mass live articles described them)
Probably the same fantasy world where if we make guns illegal all crime will stop.
What kind of fantasy world do you have to live in to think it's a great idea to piss off people with high powered sniper rifles that cost more than their car, bullets that cost dollars per round, and by your own description have no friends and spend all their free time shooting incredibly long distances with pinpoint accuracy to fill a void in their lives? (how some commenters on the mass live articles described them)
Probably the same fantasy world where if we make guns illegal all crime will stop.
Just a reminder that this meeting is tonight
The Granby Board of Appeals will hold a postponed Public Hearing from October 23, 2017 on November 20, 2017 at the Granby Senior-Junior High School Cafeteria, 385 East State Street, Granby MA 01033. 6:30 PM- to consider the petition of Justin Raphaelson, Esq. on behalf of the Granby Bow and Gun Club Inc. seeking an appeal of the Board of Selectmen’s decision, acting as the Zoning Enforcement officer dated September 6, 2017 with regards to 85 Chicopee Street, known as Map 15 Parcels C3,4,5,6,7,9,20,11 and 12 in the Town of Granby, MA. In addition to the above hearing, the Board of Appeals intends to conduct a public meeting following said hearings as time permits.
Notice the change of location for the meeting.
The Granby Board of Appeals will hold a postponed Public Hearing from October 23, 2017 on November 20, 2017 at the Granby Senior-Junior High School Cafeteria, 385 East State Street, Granby MA 01033. 6:30 PM- to consider the petition of Justin Raphaelson, Esq. on behalf of the Granby Bow and Gun Club Inc. seeking an appeal of the Board of Selectmen’s decision, acting as the Zoning Enforcement officer dated September 6, 2017 with regards to 85 Chicopee Street, known as Map 15 Parcels C3,4,5,6,7,9,20,11 and 12 in the Town of Granby, MA. In addition to the above hearing, the Board of Appeals intends to conduct a public meeting following said hearings as time permits.
Notice the change of location for the meeting.
It was quiet. Both sides made statements and the board and people listened. They did not take statements afterwards from the people in the crowd on either side and the board just stated that they'll make a decision by Dec. 30th.
They didn't panic but they just wanted to review what was handed to them before making a decision. What they went over last night I believe is what was in those documents or at least some of it anyway.
There is another board meeting this coming Monday the 18th.
Hello Everyone,
Mark Your Calendar
ZBA Meeting 12/18
PLEASE attend the hearing. The ZBA will be discussing and voting on our appeal. We need as many members and friends to come to the hearing as possible. PLEASE PLAN ON ARRIVING EARLY SO WE CAN SEAT MEMBERS / SUPPORTERS IN THE FRONT....THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
THE TIME AND LOCATION OF THE HEARING IS TBA. WE WILL LET YOU KNOW ASAP, BUT WE WANTED YOU TO HAVE THE DATE.
Hello Everyone,
Mark Your Calendar
ZBA Meeting 12/18
PLEASE attend the hearing. The ZBA will be discussing and voting on our appeal. We need as many members and friends to come to the hearing as possible. PLEASE PLAN ON ARRIVING EARLY SO WE CAN SEAT MEMBERS / SUPPORTERS IN THE FRONT....THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
THE TIME AND LOCATION OF THE HEARING IS TBA. WE WILL LET YOU KNOW ASAP, BUT WE WANTED YOU TO HAVE THE DATE.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Town is probably being vague on this on purpose.
If this is a ZBA Hearing (continued) by law it has to be posted in a newspaper of record for that area at least 1 week in advance. I do believe time and location are required in that posting.
If a hearing is not posted in accordance with the law, it is very easy to overturn any decision made by said committee (also true for planning board hearings) due to failure to follow procedure. ZBA rulings are damn near impossible to overturn for any other reason than procedural issues. I did my research on this many years ago due to a rabid anti-business ZBA in my town.
If a hearing is not posted in accordance with the law, it is very easy to overturn any decision made by said committee (also true for planning board hearings) due to failure to follow procedure. ZBA rulings are damn near impossible to overturn for any other reason than procedural issues. I did my research on this many years ago due to a rabid anti-business ZBA in my town.
That is good to know. Thanks. I looked back at some of their other meetings and it appears that in most instances, notice is given by the Granby folk precisely 5 days ahead of time (on their town calendar). So, I'm guessing EOD on the online system or determining what their newspaper of record is.
Out of curiosity, even though you've answered this, it gets me thinking. What constitutes public notice nowadays? Is it still codified as being the "newspaper" of record? Or, is posting on their cork board in the town hall sufficient? Or, could the fact that they have an internet based calendar system for their town meetings be considered the defacto official source for public notices? What would happen if the newspaper screws up and doesn't post the information in a timely manner even though the information was presented to the paper according to law?
Oh, and is 1 week considered business days?
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Considering the ZBA web page doesn't offer any updates: Granby, MA - Public Hearing Notices
This is the status quo...
They also post notices 5 days in advance, not a week.
This is the status quo...
They also post notices 5 days in advance, not a week.
Thanks Len, good info.
All below is simply my opinion and conjecture- none of it comes from the club:
This particular ZBA was difficult for me to read at the first meeting, though I see their recent handling of the vote to possibly be a negative for the club. Why keep delaying the vote?
First meeting at the Senior Center was over almost before it began. They were presented additional information (IIRC from the club's lawyer) before the meeting. The ZBA's only statement was that they were going to reschedule so that they could have adequate time to review. Seems logical, though IMHO they appeared to be a little surprised by the size of the crowd, with the majority pro-Granby. Site for the next meeting moved to a larger venue. Whether or not there was any forethought to choosing a school (with its inherent restrictions) I can't assume one way or the other. The next meeting result surprised me a little- my understanding is that they acknowledged the content of the new information and stated the vote would take place by year end. Seems that there was plenty of time to make a decision at that meeting.
I can't see how they can logically vote against continued closure of the 300 yard range pavilion. Note that the range itself is not closed- only the pavilion. My understanding is that there was a minor (perhaps petty? IMO...) code issue with the pavilion that has since been corrected, quite some time ago. I don't see how they can logically close the 1000 yard range either, but we all know that decision making isn't always rational, nor are the concerns that bring such issues to a ZBA.
Digging around on this:
New Law Requires Legal Notices Online
The law, Chapter 174 of the Acts of 2016, is based on House Bill 1566, filed by Rep. Jeffrey N. Roy (D-Franklin). The version signed into law is Senate Bill 2428, which amended the original bill.
Legal notices placed in newspapers now must be published:
Public Notice Massachusetts | Massachusetts Newspaper Publishers Association
Via MNPA, for previous meetings it appears Granby would publish a notice for the ZBA meeting about ten days ahead of time. But, I am still looking for the current notice and have not found anything archived at that repository, yet.
New Law Requires Legal Notices Online
The law, Chapter 174 of the Acts of 2016, is based on House Bill 1566, filed by Rep. Jeffrey N. Roy (D-Franklin). The version signed into law is Senate Bill 2428, which amended the original bill.
Legal notices placed in newspapers now must be published:
- In the newspaper’s print publication.
- On the newspaper’s website.
- On a statewide website maintained as a repository for such notices.
Public Notice Massachusetts | Massachusetts Newspaper Publishers Association
Via MNPA, for previous meetings it appears Granby would publish a notice for the ZBA meeting about ten days ahead of time. But, I am still looking for the current notice and have not found anything archived at that repository, yet.
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I know that a public posting of any town official meeting has to be done 48 hrs in advance (posting on bulletin board with 24 hr access is adequate for this). Public Hearings (as opposed to mere meetings) by ZBA/Planning Board have to be published in a newspaper a week before (not certain on # of days). I know because I had to pay >$500 for said postings and Certified Mailings to abutters when I filed for my building permit with ZBA back a number of years ago.
I researched how a ZBA ruling could be overturned due to an extremely arrogant SOB as ZBA chairman in my town who was turning down damn near every commercial proposal in town.
In addition to the above, the 48 hours does not include weekends. So a meeting Monday night would need to be posted by Thursday night in order to comply with the Open Meeting Laws. The posting must also include the agenda of all topics to be discussed.
I was able to speak with the town this morning and they have confirmed a ZBA meeting on the 18th. Nothing on the published calendar, as of yet.
This is considered a "meeting" as opposed to a "hearing" for the board members where they will be deciding the outcome of the appeal. Someone can chime in on whether they are following proper procedure (I don't recall any substantial public discussion at the previous hearings/meetings we were asked to attend, just delays).
Currently, limited space at the Old Library downstairs at 6:30PM on the 18th.
I'm guessing the location of what they are calling the old library is the Old Carnegie Library, 1 Library Lane, Granby, MA. Will await further direction from the Granby BOD.
This is considered a "meeting" as opposed to a "hearing" for the board members where they will be deciding the outcome of the appeal. Someone can chime in on whether they are following proper procedure (I don't recall any substantial public discussion at the previous hearings/meetings we were asked to attend, just delays).
Currently, limited space at the Old Library downstairs at 6:30PM on the 18th.
I'm guessing the location of what they are calling the old library is the Old Carnegie Library, 1 Library Lane, Granby, MA. Will await further direction from the Granby BOD.
Latest email from Granby:
Hello Everyone,
FINAL ZBA Meeting 12/18/2017
PLEASE ATTEND the hearing. The ZBA will be discussing and voting on our appeal. We need as many members and friends to come to the hearing as possible. PLEASE PLAN ON ARRIVING EARLY (5:30pm) SO WE CAN SEAT MEMBERS / SUPPORTERS IN THE FRONT....IT IS VERY IMPORTANT WE FILL THE VENUE WITH GRANBY SUPPORTERS. THIS VENUE IS SMALL.
Date / Time: 12/18/2017 @ 6:30pm (Meet @ 5:30pm to get in line for best seating). Small venue.
Location:
Old Library / Basement
1 Library Ln
Granby, MA
A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HAS SUPPORTED THE CLUB THROUGH THIS CHALLENGING TIME. HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL AT THE MEETING!!
THANK YOU,
GRANBY BOW & GUN CLUB BOD
FINAL ZBA Meeting 12/18/2017
PLEASE ATTEND the hearing. The ZBA will be discussing and voting on our appeal. We need as many members and friends to come to the hearing as possible. PLEASE PLAN ON ARRIVING EARLY (5:30pm) SO WE CAN SEAT MEMBERS / SUPPORTERS IN THE FRONT....IT IS VERY IMPORTANT WE FILL THE VENUE WITH GRANBY SUPPORTERS. THIS VENUE IS SMALL.
Date / Time: 12/18/2017 @ 6:30pm (Meet @ 5:30pm to get in line for best seating). Small venue.
Location:
Old Library / Basement
1 Library Ln
Granby, MA
A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HAS SUPPORTED THE CLUB THROUGH THIS CHALLENGING TIME. HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL AT THE MEETING!!
THANK YOU,
GRANBY BOW & GUN CLUB BOD
Don't they have until 5:30 tonight to technically post the meeting?
From the Open Meeting Law Guide: https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2017/11/14/2017 Guide with ed materials.pdf "What are the requirements for posting notice of meetings? Except in cases of emergency, a public body must provide the public with notice of its meeting 48 hours in advance, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays. Notice of emergency meetings must be posted as soon as reasonably possible prior to the meeting. Also note that other laws, such as those governing procedures for public hearings, may require additional notice."
Then again, I'm sure if you file a complaint with the MASS AG she will do her due diligence to promptly look into this
From the Open Meeting Law Guide: https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2017/11/14/2017 Guide with ed materials.pdf "What are the requirements for posting notice of meetings? Except in cases of emergency, a public body must provide the public with notice of its meeting 48 hours in advance, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays. Notice of emergency meetings must be posted as soon as reasonably possible prior to the meeting. Also note that other laws, such as those governing procedures for public hearings, may require additional notice."
Then again, I'm sure if you file a complaint with the MASS AG she will do her due diligence to promptly look into this
IIRC, this falls under the Sec. of State, not the AG.Don't they have until 5:30 tonight to technically post the meeting?
From the Open Meeting Law Guide: https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2017/11/14/2017 Guide with ed materials.pdf "What are the requirements for posting notice of meetings? Except in cases of emergency, a public body must provide the public with notice of its meeting 48 hours in advance, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays. Notice of emergency meetings must be posted as soon as reasonably possible prior to the meeting. Also note that other laws, such as those governing procedures for public hearings, may require additional notice."
Then again, I'm sure if you file a complaint with the MASS AG she will do her due diligence to promptly look into this
Don't they have until 5:30 tonight to technically post the meeting?
From the Open Meeting Law Guide: https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2017/11/14/2017 Guide with ed materials.pdf "What are the requirements for posting notice of meetings? Except in cases of emergency, a public body must provide the public with notice of its meeting 48 hours in advance, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays. Notice of emergency meetings must be posted as soon as reasonably possible prior to the meeting. Also note that other laws, such as those governing procedures for public hearings, may require additional notice."
Then again, I'm sure if you file a complaint with the MASS AG she will do her due diligence to promptly look into this
Yes, probably correct. I'm not well versed to the ins and outs of the requirements of public disclosure and proper procedure. Also, having thought this was a "hearing".
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