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Portsmouth, NH Pistol and Revolver permit question

S

shadowen

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Hey folks. Just moved from Dover, NH to Portsmouth, NH and as my permit (which I've held in Dover for 8 years, give or take) was about to expire soon anyway, figured I would go forward with renewing/applying down here ahead of time.

Filled out the application per direction of the deputy on duty at the time as a new application Ok, sure, new town). Fast forward to today and I got a letter from the Chief of Police stating that my application is in pending because one or more of my references hasn't gotten back to them and they (Portsmouth PD?) is requesting that I willfully suspend the 14 day requirement for my references to get back to them or face a potential denial.

This, of course, feels very wrong to me, so I guess the question is, can they deny me because a references doesn't respond? Most of the people I know travel a lot so this is not unusual for them to be away. Anyway, something doesn't feel right here.

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Portsmouth's new chief literally took office just last week.

ProGun said:
Some responses to the same question...this appears to be a recurring problem in Portsmouth[thinking]
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This happened again back in 2013 (under a different chief), then there's the NES thread from 2015, seems like Portsmouth needs a reminder every time they get a new chief?
shadowen said:
the question is, can they deny me because a references doesn't respond?
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Well Chief Merner can try -- feel like being a test case?
 
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The funny thing is, you can't willfully suspend the 14 day requirement, as the 14 day requirement IS THE LAW. Personally, I just wouldn't reply to his demands and let him do what he will do. Then, sue the shit out of them!
 
Why do you need a permit now that we are a constitutional carry state? Unless you just want a piece of paper to have for a reciprocal state?
 
Cowgirlup said:
That's all I could think of, but he didn't specify why. :)
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Sorry, yes, for reciprocity reasons more than anything.

Thank you all for the replies. I may consider engaging on Wednesday to inform them that I shall not suspend the 14 day waiting period. If push comes to shove, I don't mind being a test case.

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Follow up: Myself and two of my references have tried calling Portsmouth PD today; only getting voice mails.

I took a walk down there and spoke with a Sgt on duty; apparently the investigator who does this work is on vacation until the 10th /and/ there is no one else in the deptartment that can help me at all... When pressed, I was given a direct line to said investigator's voicemail where myself and one reference so far has left a direct voicemail for him.

I'll keep updating this saga here to let you know how this all plays out.
 
shadowen said:
Follow up: Myself and two of my references have tried calling Portsmouth PD today; only getting voice mails.

I took a walk down there and spoke with a Sgt on duty; apparently the investigator who does this work is on vacation until the 10th /and/ there is no one else in the deptartment that can help me at all... When pressed, I was given a direct line to said investigator's voicemail where myself and one reference so far has left a direct voicemail for him.

I'll keep updating this saga here to let you know how this all plays out.
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Maybe I missed it: when does the clock run out on the 14 days?
 
Good luck. The NH seacoast contains the strongest gun prohibitionist sentiment in the state. The Portsmouth chief feels empowered to disobey state law and make up rules. Needs to be sued.
 
ScottS said:
Maybe I missed it: when does the clock run out on the 14 days?
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So this is something that was never clear to me, if it's 14 business days, they have until tomorrow; if it's just 14 days, then technically, it ran out on the 30th of June (I received a June 29th dated letter on July 3rd).
 
shadowen said:
So this is something that was never clear to me, if it's 14 business days, they have until tomorrow; if it's just 14 days, then technically, it ran out on the 30th of June (I received a June 29th dated letter on July 3rd).
Click to expand...

It's been well-established. It's 14 calendar days, not business days. They're already non-compliant. Let them know that.

Go nuclear. I'll chip in to the legal offense fund.
 
The PD pays when they lose, and they must lose per NH RSAs, so notify them that you are filing suit and do that. You'll collect lawyer fees as well.
 
Portsmouth knows they are in violation, but every new C.O.P. keeps trying this

Len-2A Training said:
The PD pays when they lose, and they must lose per NH RSAs, so notify them that you are filing suit and do that. You'll collect lawyer fees as well.
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The PD might pay when they lose, but it's not a sure thing under RSA 159:6-f
RSA 159:6-f said:
I. If any licensing entity or employee or member of the city council or board of selectmen, in violation of the provisions of this chapter, refuses to comply with this chapter, such entity or person shall be liable for reasonable attorney's fees and costs incurred in a lawsuit under this chapter to enforce the terms of this chapter, provided that the court finds that such lawsuit was necessary in order to obtain compliance with this chapter by the licensing authority. Fees shall not be awarded unless the court finds that the entity or person knew or should have known that the conduct engaged in was a violation of this chapter or when the parties, by agreement, provide that no such fees shall be paid. In any case in which fees are awarded under this chapter, upon a finding that an employee, or other official of a licensing entity has acted in bad faith in refusing to comply with this chapter, the court may award such fees personally against such employee or other official.
Click to expand...

On the positive side, while you might not get your costs back, you pretty much have a 100% chance that you will get your P&R license.
 
IIRC, my NH non-resident application to the NH state police asks for 3 references; name and address only. None of the references I listed were ever contacted by the NH state police, and you are having problems as a NH resident with the town licensing officer? Very odd set of circumstances, to say the least.
 
Glockster30 said:
IIRC, my NH non-resident application to the NH state police asks for 3 references; name and address only. None of the references I listed were ever contacted by the NH state police, and you are having problems as a NH resident with the town licensing officer? Very odd set of circumstances, to say the least.
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Not that odd. There are some towns in nh that really really want to suck like ma.the courts occasionally need to remind them that they aren't in ma

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The Portsmouth Police is Mara, who is the former chief of Manchester, NH. He literally knows better (he has been sued before in Manch under the old may issue regime).

New Hampshire is now also real shall issue now.

There are a few ways you can go about doing this.

Send an email to the City mayor, copy ALL city councilors, copy the city attorney, AND copy all state reps and the state senator. If you feel bold, copy the chief as well. Point out that as of June 30th Portsmouth is in violation of the law and that you will be suing everyone copied on the email personally as well as the city itself. Feel free to note that the city has a track record of losing court cases recently (they do lulz). Alternatively I will do this for you on your behalf. I enjoy being snarky when writing to public officials.

Contact Seth Hipple (http://nhlegalservices.com/). He lives for this, especially now that we are true shall issue.

Another option: go down to the station, and while openly recording video (and sound) demand your license to carry, state that it was to be issued on the 30th, that the Chief is X days in violation of the law and get someone to admit to willfully continue to violate the law.

Go full provocateur: open carry handgun and rifle in downtown Portsmouth. When police stop you inform (video record of course) them that you will continue to open carry until they issue you a conceal carry license as they are currently in violation of the law (this is probably not the best route to go).
 
soloman02 said:
The Portsmouth Police is Mara, who is the former chief of Manchester, NH. He literally knows better (he has been sued before in Manch under the old may issue regime).
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Mara officially retired a couple weeks ago, Portsmouth's webmaster just hasn't got around to updating the website.

Chief Merner may not be any better, given his background is Boston and Seattle.
 
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Don't you love how they try and use their own failure to do their job as the reason to further fail to do their job and follow the law? They are nothing less than criminals.

browncoat said:
It's funny how NH takes the bad MA cops

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I wouldn't exactly call that funny.
 
browncoat said:
It's funny how NH takes the bad MA cops

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Double dipping is so common that an NH rep should file a bill to prohibit it. If you are receiving a pension from any other state (or the feds) you should NOT be eligible for one from the state of NH.
 
soloman02 said:
Ah, they have not updated their website to reflect this.

Looks Like Robert Merner has a civil rights lawsuit against him from his time at the Boston PD.

http://nhpr.org/post/portsmouths-pick-lead-police-department-accused-assault-civil-lawsuit#stream/0
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Given his high rank in BPD and their attitude towards mere mortals owning/carrying guns, it's not surprising. He needs an education and letters to his boss might just work. If not, a lawsuit should definitely "educate" him that he's not in MA anymore.
 
Sorry for the long delay on replying, I'm currently out of town in Minneapolis. Yay.

It has been radio silence from them until today, when I got a call from the chiefs assistant. Basically, I should have an answer soon (they've heard from my references, but she wasn't clear on approval or denial) and as I was about to board a flight at Logan when she called, I could not press further.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to follow up again until I'm back in town at the end of the week, which she did say I should have a response by the time I get back...

I will follow up on this as soon as I can, bear with me. If it's a denial or still no response, I will move forward with pressing the issue.

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A couple things.


1. They have 14 days from the day you submitted the application to issue or deny you the license. There are NO exceptions. If it has been 14 days and you haven't had it issued to you or been denied, they are violating the law. Period.

2. They cannot deny you because they didn't hear back from your references. If they do, they are again, violating the law. Period. (In fact, with the amended law, requiring references is now 100% pointless. Before, they could possibly use a statement by a reference to say you weren't suitable. Now, the ONLY reason they can deny you, is if you are statutorily prohibited from possessing a firearm in NH.)

3. Whoever told you to do the form as an original and not a renewal is an idiot, or corrupt. You have a license. It has a number and expiration date. There is no reason you shouldn't put it on the form where it asks those things. Now I can only see one reason why doing it as in original and not a renewal could possibly matter. And it's not a good one. The form says "An incomplete application will be returned." This gives the PD the opportunity to 'return' the application as incomplete and claim the 14 day requirement wasn't violated because you never submitted a complete application. That they told you to do it this way isn't relevant. Of course if they were to do this, it would make one thing very clear. They have no intention of complying with the law.
 
shadowen said:
Sorry for the long delay on replying, I'm currently out of town in Minneapolis. Yay.

It has been radio silence from them until today, when I got a call from the chiefs assistant. Basically, I should have an answer soon (they've heard from my references, but she wasn't clear on approval or denial) and as I was about to board a flight at Logan when she called, I could not press further.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to follow up again until I'm back in town at the end of the week, which she did say I should have a response by the time I get back...

I will follow up on this as soon as I can, bear with me. If it's a denial or still no response, I will move forward with pressing the issue.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Update? I'm going to send one of my "hans blix" emails soon, like within a day or two. I will, as I normally do on these emails, CC all reps, the state senator, all council members, the city attorney, mayor, manager, and the chief. Cause it has been ONE MONTH as of tomorrow and that is bullshit.
 

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