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From a 1911, to a S&W Shield 9mm accuracy problems

E

ejl923

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Hello all,
My first gun was a 1911. Some say not to make it your first, but it has been great and i shot it great from the start. There was basically no learning curve for me. I've had it for 8+ years and can fire quick shots accurately up to 20 yards or so. Recently I decided i wanted something smaller for carry, so i picked up a shield 9mm. I am horrible with it, all over the place, maybe 16" groupings at 10 yards with slow/moderate speed. My 1911 at same distance is probably 4" groups with quick shots, basically firing as soon as the sights lower. I am used to the short, straight back pull of the 1911 trigger. The long, hinged pull of the shield seems to be the issue with me. I know the site radius is much different, but i tend to to lean towards the trigger. If i pull very slow, the gun seems to be fairly accurate. What i am concerned with is that in a high pressure situation accuracy would be non existent. Ive thought about installing an apex, but i would like to learn the stock trigger first.

Any suggestions on where to start correcting issues with a smaller gun and different trigger? I know of the correction charts, but depending on speed of fire i am all over the place. Ill have to make better notes of my accuracy as i could be off there, but basically if im accurate with a 1911, how do i translate that over to my shield?

Thanks
 
Benchrest the gun first to see if its intrinsically ****ed up.

If the answer to this is "no" then you just need to get the shitty MA trigger repaired, then you can learn how to shoot it correctly after that without having to fight the gun the entire time.

There is no "learning to like the stock MA M&P trigger" It sucks, horribly, and nobody should waste time and building bad muscle memory etc. based off a shit trigger.

-Mike
 
If you have the MA-compliant trigger, consider Apex upgrade. Best $100 upgrade for M&P!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
drgrant said:
Benchrest the gun first to see if its intrinsically ****ed up.

If the answer to this is "no" then you just need to get the shitty MA trigger repaired, then you can learn how to shoot it correctly after that without having to fight the gun the entire time.

There is no "learning to like the stock MA M&P trigger" It sucks, horribly, and nobody should waste time and building bad muscle memory etc. based off a shit trigger.

-Mike
Click to expand...

+1

If the gun is accurate "benched"
Consider an apex kit "and" an apex flat trigger.
 
well, i have shot the pistol a few times by resting my arms on the rather high tables at my range. I felt good enough it was me, not the gun. However, i feel i should test this a little more detailed before i make some changes. Any recommendations for a shooting rest on pistols?

As far as the trigger, some have said the shield trigger wasnt so bad. Nobody said it was great, but some dont mind it. Could it really just be the trigger contributing to most of the problems? Why would smith design it like this, someone must have like it?
 
I have a Shield in 9mm and found myself to be a bit more accurate with it compared to a couple of other carry pieces I have. I cannot say how I am with the stock trigger, as I had the Apex kit installed (and upgraded sights) at time of purchase, so I have only fired with that set-up. Per some other replies, check accuracy from a bench rest.
 
ejl923 said:
As far as the trigger, some have said the shield trigger wasnt so bad. Nobody said it was great, but some dont mind it. Could it really just be the trigger contributing to most of the problems? Why would smith design it like this, someone must have like it?
Click to expand...

Well, it was better than the original full sized M&P trigger.

Dry fire a bunch of times and pay attention to muzzle movement when the trigger breaks.
 
ejl923 said:
well, i have shot the pistol a few times by resting my arms on the rather high tables at my range. I felt good enough it was me, not the gun. However, i feel i should test this a little more detailed before i make some changes. Any recommendations for a shooting rest on pistols?

As far as the trigger, some have said the shield trigger wasnt so bad. Nobody said it was great, but some dont mind it. Could it really just be the trigger contributing to most of the problems? Why would smith design it like this, someone must have like it?
Click to expand...

The trigger is shit because of MA legal bullshit due to fear of CMR940 enforcement by the attorney general. (nothing you have to worry about, its a dealer sales reg).
 
drgrant said:
The trigger is shit because of MA legal bullshit due to fear of CMR940 enforcement by the attorney general. (nothing you have to worry about, its a dealer sales reg).
Click to expand...

The fix is Apex, or Greg Derr or one of the other smiths that smooth the original components.

All mine are original parts worked on by Greg. He has a forum on this board and is a great guy to deal with if he is not too far from you.
 
I got one of the first Shields sold in Massachusetts in 2012.

I had Lou at Business end customs do a trigger job & change the sights to XS Big Dot.

I have since added Talon Grips, A Streamlight TLR-6 and ArachniGRIP on the slide serrations.

I find the Shield9 to be a great shooter and carry gun / very reliable and accurate.

OVER 1,000,000 shields have been produced and sold!
 
bfm said:
The fix is Apex, or Greg Derr or one of the other smiths that smooth the original components.

All mine are original parts worked on by Greg. He has a forum on this board and is a great guy to deal with if he is not too far from you.
Click to expand...

Unpaid endorsement: I agree that Greg is excellent and great to deal with. Just damn hard to get there from here (where I am :)
 
tml said:
Unpaid endorsement: I agree that Greg is excellent and great to deal with. Just damn hard to get there from here (where I am :)
Click to expand...

I just schedule it to coincide with trips to the cape. [smile]


I would also say find someone on here who goes to the same range as you and has one with a modified trigger and see if you shoot that any better.
 
Apex trigger definitely makes a big difference and then learning to adjust your trigger pull. Going from the big grip of a 1911 to the relatively thin grip of the shield can throw you off. For me at least I noticed that I was shooting down and left a little until I adjusted my grip on the shield as well as where my trigger finger was on the trigger.

To aid with the muscle memory of using the shield I picked up a laser lyte cartridge for dry fire practice and saw a huge improvement on quick follow up shots. Just my $.02
 
+1. Don't bother learning a bad trigger unless upgrading is out of the question. Get an Apex trigger, grip tape (Talon), and use the extended mags. I have that setup and sometimes I amaze myself with the groupings I can get.


drgrant said:
Benchrest the gun first to see if its intrinsically ****ed up.

If the answer to this is "no" then you just need to get the shitty MA trigger repaired, then you can learn how to shoot it correctly after that without having to fight the gun the entire time.

There is no "learning to like the stock MA M&P trigger" It sucks, horribly, and nobody should waste time and building bad muscle memory etc. based off a shit trigger.

-Mike
Click to expand...
 
Queen Bee said:
Justpick up a small 9mm subcompact 1911 for summer then if yhe shield does not work for you
Click to expand...

This. If you are accurate with a 1911 trigger, it blows my mind that you wouldn't have simply purchased another 1911 trigger. I know there's a price differential, but still.
 
I'm going through the same thing. All I had ever shot was full size double-stack guns, then I bought a Ruger LC9s(same size as a Shield). With that little thing swimming around in my hands I was all over, and even off the paper at 25'. Very humbling. I'm sure your MA trigger is part of it, but I also think that you have to practice and learn that little gun. With my little gun I've done lots of snap-cap work and am finally learning to make that long trigger pull without moving the sights (much). I also discovered a flinch with that gun by randomly loading snap-caps into my 2 mags, then shuffling and picking a mag so I didn't know when to expect a snap-cap. It took me about 400 rounds before I started to feel like I could hold a group with that little thing.

So, dry-fire and practice, practice, practice. It's a good gun and mastering it will make you a much better marksman.
 
For a while after I first got my Shield, even with apex kit, I couldn't hit anything with it.
Then, all of a sudden, like a switch turned on, I could.
I have no idea what changed or why, other than time just getting used to it.
...that and Ben Kenobi's voice whispering "Use the Force"...
 
Mine has the Apex Trigger and some skateboard tape around the front of the grip and the trigger guard. It is also the only gun that I wrap the index finger of my support hand around the front of the trigger guard instead of under it.
 
Thanks guys, looks like I'll be ordering the apex kit to start, then work on the tips some of you have provided.
 
ejl923 said:
Hello all,
My first gun was a 1911. Some say not to make it your first, but it has been great and i shot it great from the start. There was basically no learning curve for me. I've had it for 8+ years and can fire quick shots accurately up to 20 yards or so. Recently I decided i wanted something smaller for carry, so i picked up a shield 9mm. I am horrible with it, all over the place, maybe 16" groupings at 10 yards with slow/moderate speed. My 1911 at same distance is probably 4" groups with quick shots, basically firing as soon as the sights lower. I am used to the short, straight back pull of the 1911 trigger. The long, hinged pull of the shield seems to be the issue with me. I know the site radius is much different, but i tend to to lean towards the trigger. If i pull very slow, the gun seems to be fairly accurate. What i am concerned with is that in a high pressure situation accuracy would be non existent. Ive thought about installing an apex, but i would like to learn the stock trigger first.

Any suggestions on where to start correcting issues with a smaller gun and different trigger? I know of the correction charts, but depending on speed of fire i am all over the place. Ill have to make better notes of my accuracy as i could be off there, but basically if im accurate with a 1911, how do i translate that over to my shield?

Thanks
Click to expand...

What grain weight rounds are you running? I actually just broke in a G43 for a friend of mine at the range which is similar... I also run a 1911 95% of the time. So I was shooting 147 Rangers out of the G43 and I couldn't hit a ****ing thing... turns out the G43 wasn't stabilizing the heavier rounds. Cause when i switched to 115gr it was fine.
 
ejl923 said:
Thanks guys, looks like I'll be ordering the apex kit to start, then work on the tips some of you have provided.
Click to expand...

If you're close to Four Seasons in Woburn, they sell it installed for $100


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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