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Why CT is not (yet) as bad as MA

dcmdon

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I'm asked a couple of times per year which state has worse or better firearms laws. Yes, the CT AWB is very strict but you can get around it by spending the cash for pre-ban items.

However, I always tell people that CT is still better than MA simply because you don't need the state's permission to possess firearm. None. Not for handguns, not for rifles or shotguns. No license is necessary for machine guns even. Although you do need to update your registration every year. But that is notification. You aren't asking permission.

To illustrate my point, I was just made aware of this. Its amazing. Read the first few paragraphs even if reading legal stuff makes your eyes cross. The intro is written in plain english. Its just incredible.

Don

http://comm2a.org/55-projects/235-storm-v-erickson
 
I can't help but wonder what the Gardner PD would have done if (realizing what was going on), Mr. Storm would have moved the firearms out of state, to avoid being this situation. I wonder if they would have non-consensually entered his premises to confirm that? (I hope there is never anybody in a position to find out.)

Additionally, reading Mr. Storm's complaint, I noticed there being references to the police seizing (unspecified) firearm accessories. I would love to know what those accessories consisted of (i.e. was that a reference to ammunition feeding devices, or some other regulated equipment, or something not requiring a license e.g. holsters, bipods, cleaning equipment, etc....) If they were non-licensed paraphernalia I would love to know (1) why those items were seized (if not attached to a weapon) and (2) why there isn't a claim or allegation related to that.

Additionally, I'm very surprised that the police did not perform some sort of complete inventory of the ammunition. While it might be reasonable for them to have delayed inventory until later for practicality reasons (which is common practice when the police are dealing with large quantities of property)- I'm surprised that they didn't eventually do something to quantify what they seized (e.g. a total weight measurement, if a round by round count would not be feasible)
 
I can't help but wonder what the Gardner PD would have done if (realizing what was going on), Mr. Storm would have moved the firearms out of state, to avoid being this situation. I wonder if they would have non-consensually entered his premises to confirm that? (I hope there is never anybody in a position to find out.)

We have a whole thread for this case (Comm2A posted it) but IMHO they still might have gone FR after being told there were no guns on the premises. They already blew the guy off when he offered to have another LTC holder take control of his stuff; that seems to indicate to me that they were most certainly full retard unreasonable. My guess is if he had done so they would have pulled an administrative temper tantrum of sorts.

-Mike
 
Agreed.

Don't forget CT being shall issue without the hoops and hurdles of may issue in MA and chief discretion. It's also much easier to store and transport firearms and ammo without having to read pages of confusing and indecisive laws.
 
Mike,

I put this thread here not to go over details of the situation but to stimulate a discussion on the KEY differences between CT and MA law.

One other thing. CT actually guarantees the right to own firearms in its constitution.

Article 1, Section 15 states: “Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state”

Here is the CT Office of Legislative Research (OLR) report on the right to keep and bear arms in CT. The OLR's
opinions do not have any weight of law, but are considered to be relatively unbiased and are used by police and prosecutors
as a starting point for legislative interpretation.


https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0195.htm
 
Mike,

I put this thread here not to go over details of the situation but to stimulate a discussion on the KEY differences between CT and MA law.

One other thing. CT actually guarantees the right to own firearms in its constitution.

Article 1, Section 15 states: “Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state”

Here is the CT Office of Legislative Research (OLR) report on the right to keep and bear arms in CT. The OLR's
opinions do not have any weight of law, but are considered to be relatively unbiased and are used by police and prosecutors
as a starting point for legislative interpretation.


https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0195.htm

Yes, CT is much better from that standpoint even though the laws are otherwise generally worse.

One thing I don't understand though is this preban AWB business. Are you saying someone can buy say a PRE-94 AR-15 anywhere and import it into CT? Or do you mean preban in the sense of "had to be papered in CT before the new sandy hook BS cutoff date and there is a fixed pool of guns". If it is the latter that's not really much of a wallhack.

-Mike
 
Don will have to confirm but my understanding is that in CT you can still buy a pre-1994 AR as long as it's not one of the handful listed by name in the AWB. In fact, I have seen them in gun shops for sale recently, well by recently I mean over two years ago but after the new ban went into effect. They are expensive but they are available. I think you can even purchase them out of state and have them sent to a FFL here and buy it that way.

If that's correct that means I could buy a pre-94 lower, strip it down and build it back up however I wanted if I didn't like the older barrel, etc. Also, pre-94 exempts it from the stupid evil feature count. So not only can you still buy one, you can configure it any way you want as long as it still has a 16" barrel and isn't full auto (unless you go through the extra hoops to have that, which you can still do in CT I think).

In addition I think it even exempts it from having to be registered at all. The thing you can't get around legally in CT is the high cap mags. Even if you had them before the new laws you had to register them and there is no pre-ban exemption for high cap mags.

Again, I will have to fact check that and/or see if Don can confirm it, but that's how I read it last time I looked.
 
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Agreed.

Don't forget CT being shall issue without the hoops and hurdles of may issue in MA and chief discretion
. It's also much easier to store and transport firearms and ammo without having to read pages of confusing and indecisive laws.

Connecticut does have a subjective suitability requirement for permits to carry, like Mass does. The difference is that in Connecticut, there is an accessible, viable mechanism to have reviewed which puts the burden of proof on the issuing authority to prove unsuitability.
 
Connecticut does have a subjective suitability requirement for permits to carry, like Mass does. The difference is that in Connecticut, there is an accessible, viable mechanism to have reviewed which puts the burden of proof on the issuing authority to prove unsuitability.

Agreed. However, unless the person does something that effectively makes them a prohibited person, this mechanism (the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners or BFPE) will order the issuing authority to issue (or re-issue in the case of a revocation) the license.

A timely example is open carry. People have been open carrying in CT for about 8 years now. The first people were arrested and their Pistol Permits (pp) revoked. In 100% of the cases they were ordered reissued by the BFPE. Of course now, OC is accepted by most PDs and I don't know of any arrests for OC in the last 4 or 5 years.

So statutorily CT is may issue. Practically speaking, it is shall issue. Since the IAs have for the most part stopped playing games because they know the BFPE will only order them to issue the license.

- - - Updated - - -

Don will have to confirm but my understanding is that in CT you can still buy a pre-1994 AR as long as it's not one of the handful listed by name in the AWB. In fact, I have seen them in gun shops for sale recently, well by recently I mean over two years ago but after the new ban went into effect. They are expensive but they are available. I think you can even purchase them out of state and have them sent to a FFL here and buy it that way.

If that's correct that means I could buy a pre-94 lower, strip it down and build it back up however I wanted if I didn't like the older barrel, etc. Also, pre-94 exempts it from the stupid evil feature count. So not only can you still buy one, you can configure it any way you want as long as it still has a 16" barrel and isn't full auto (unless you go through the extra hoops to have that, which you can still do in CT I think).

In addition I think it even exempts it from having to be registered at all. The thing you can't get around legally in CT is the high cap mags. Even if you had them before the new laws you had to register them and there is no pre-ban exemption for high cap mags.

Again, I will have to fact check that and/or see if Don can confirm it, but that's how I read it last time I looked.

Carl is correct. Any pre-94 ban AR is fine in CT, in any configuration. It does not have to have been in CT prior to any date. If it was made pre-94 ban, it is a RIFLE not an AW.

Based on our attorney's at CT Carry's interpretation, NAMED firearms would still be subject to the ban. However, the DESPP seems to take a more charitable view of things, concluding that ANY pre-94 ban firearm is exempt from the draconian ban of 2013.

See follow up post for citation.


Of note. There is case law
(STATE OF CONNECTICUT v. ROBERT KALMAN)
where the term "Avtomat Kalashnikov Type" was clarified. Someone was arrested with a non named brand AK and it went to trial. At trial a firearms "expert" testified to the judges that the bolt was the "heart and lungs" of the firearm. The Judge determined in his ruling that any AK Type that used the same bolt as an actual AK met the legal definition of an Assault Weapon.

That is why properly neutered AKs in any caliber that did not use a 7.62x39 bolt were perfectly legal in CT until PA13-3 passed in 2013. Since they didn't meet the named criteria.

So based on this. Any pre-94 ban AK in something like .223 or 5.45 x 39 is perfectly legal.
Since I reload, I've owned a pre-ban .223 Norinco 86 for years. Its a great gun.
 
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I know this is way late from the thread. Reading it, it appears that pre-ban AR's are legal. According to everything that I've read, all assault weapons had to be registered before Jan 2014. If moving into the state? Doesn't matter if it's Pre-ban or not; Evil Features, must be sold to dealer, destroyed or turned in. Just curious because I am looking at a job up there, but...
 
I know this is way late from the thread. Reading it, it appears that pre-ban AR's are legal. According to everything that I've read, all assault weapons had to be registered before Jan 2014. If moving into the state? Doesn't matter if it's Pre-ban or not; Evil Features, must be sold to dealer, destroyed or turned in. Just curious because I am looking at a job up there, but...

If it's post-ban and you didn't register (no requirement to be a resident to register) then it's a no go unless you make it compliant (e.g., bolt action upper on an AR).

If it's pre-ban, as long as it wasn't banned by name (e.g., Colt Sporter) you can bring it.
 
Talked to a dealer down there and was told I'm screwed. Don't plan on staying forever. If I don't sell it before moving, not going to neuter it. Maybe switch to a Garand & Mossberg 590A1. But they might be banned too; don't know.
 
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