300BLK subsonics for defense??

Nico9283

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Waiting on my tax stamp for an sbr built with a 9” barrel in 300blackout. I’m in mass so suppressing isn’t an option, wondering what the best options are for subsonic rounds in terms of lethality and reliable expansion. I don’t need the box to say “home defense” on it, I’m well aware that a round designed for hunting mid size game like whitetail has identical effect on a human sized target. I’m also aware that supersonic has more reliable expansion and higher energy, but in the extremely unlikely event of needing to use it inside the house, I’d prefer to not go deaf if I don’t have to… if I do, then so be it, but I’d like to explore options first.

I’ve been asked why I didn’t go with a .223 setup… I used to have an AR pistol and found the muzzle blast to be absolutely blinding in low light, not to mention that it was uncomfortably loud even with ear pro on. Firing something like that inside a home in the middle of the night in total darkness would be disorienting to the point of having a serious impact on my ability to think, especially if you add in that I’d already be under extreme stress. In other words, that’s a no-go for me. .223/.556 for defense belongs in a barrel 14.5” or above if you can’t suppress it, and even then it’s going to be DAMN loud but at least you won’t lose your night vision.

As a side note, if supersonic 300 blackout is the only reliable option.. has anyone ever compared the decibel levels of unsuppressed 300 and unsuppressed 223?

Thanks in advance
 

Dennis in MA

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Muzzle is pretty bad with 300BLK as well. That much energy that close to your face is abrupt. LOL

I ended up with one of those "brakes" that basically attempts to send EVERYTHING downrange. (Looks like a hole saw more than a brake.) Not sure how effective it is, but it's livable.

Now, the real issue is - a subsonic 300BLK is pretty much just a longer-skinnier 45ACP in a lot of cases. While I own one, I'm not sure it's incrementally better except that I've got a shoulder-fired weapon instead of a hands-only fired weapon.
 

Nico9283

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for subsonic, anything with a full copper projectile or a lead core with a insert with grooves so it splits open.

Hornady SubX 190 grain
Gorilla Ammo Silverback 205 grain
Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion 194 grain
Lehigh Defense Controlled Fracturing198 grain
I find the gel test videos of the controlled fracturing to be very interesting, but I can’t find anywhere that sells it in an actual load, just the bullet itself. Is this something that needs to be loaded by the buyer or can you buy these ready to rock? I haven’t gotten into loading my own rounds and don’t have the equipment to do so
 

andrew1220

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I find the gel test videos of the controlled fracturing to be very interesting, but I can’t find anywhere that sells it in an actual load, just the bullet itself. Is this something that needs to be loaded by the buyer or can you buy these ready to rock? I haven’t gotten into loading my own rounds and don’t have the equipment to do so
Underwood does

Reach out to Ivan @Pitin12 to get some

EDIT: Nevermind you're looking for the controlled fracturing bullet/round.
 

Caveman

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I went with the Underwood Maximum Expansion for my factory suppressed subsonic 300blk load. that and the Barnes 110 and 120gr load for supersonic. Fwiw If I wasn’t suppressing I would run Supers for the superior term effect. Indoors unsuppressed the subs would still be pretty darn loud imo.
 

Nico9283

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I don’t
Underwood does

Reach out to Ivan @Pitin12 to get some

EDIT: Nevermind you're looking for the controlled fracturing bullet/round.
well, if those are all I can find, those also looked gtg
 

Nico9283

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I went with the Underwood Maximum Expansion for my factory suppressed subsonic 300blk load. that and the Barnes 110 and 120gr load for supersonic. Fwiw If I wasn’t suppressing I would run Supers for the superior term effect. Indoors unsuppressed the subs would still be pretty darn loud imo.
I agree it will be loud, but a lot of hearing damage is done by the supersonic crack of the bullet passing the sound barrier. I wish I could find some decibel comparisons of these rounds with and without suppressor so I could see the difference.
Or better yet… MA could let us have some damn suppressors and stop using the “criminals could murder in silence” bologna excuse
 

weekendracer

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Waiting on my tax stamp for an sbr built with a 9” barrel in 300blackout. I’m in mass so suppressing isn’t an option, wondering what the best options are for subsonic rounds in terms of lethality and reliable expansion. I don’t need the box to say “home defense” on it, I’m well aware that a round designed for hunting mid size game like whitetail has identical effect on a human sized target. I’m also aware that supersonic has more reliable expansion and higher energy, but in the extremely unlikely event of needing to use it inside the house, I’d prefer to not go deaf if I don’t have to… if I do, then so be it, but I’d like to explore options first.

I’ve been asked why I didn’t go with a .223 setup… I used to have an AR pistol and found the muzzle blast to be absolutely blinding in low light, not to mention that it was uncomfortably loud even with ear pro on. Firing something like that inside a home in the middle of the night in total darkness would be disorienting to the point of having a serious impact on my ability to think, especially if you add in that I’d already be under extreme stress. In other words, that’s a no-go for me. .223/.556 for defense belongs in a barrel 14.5” or above if you can’t suppress it, and even then it’s going to be DAMN loud but at least you won’t lose your night vision.

As a side note, if supersonic 300 blackout is the only reliable option.. has anyone ever compared the decibel levels of unsuppressed 300 and unsuppressed 223?

Thanks in advance
Don't overthink it. Punching 30 caliber holes in someone who shouldn't be there is punching 30 caliber holes in someone who shouldn't be there. There are some people who say the flash is still better for you since you're ready for it, vs the guy you're introducing yourself to.

The muzzle blast 'should' be about the same as a 223/556 as it uses the same case, I don't reload, but I can't imagine you're slamming a ton more powder into the 300 load. A lot of pistols are 'subsonic' so yeah, they still hurt to shoot without earpro on. You're going to be more accurate with the rifle, so you absolutely have that going for you.
 

Nico9283

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Don't overthink it. Punching 30 caliber holes in someone who shouldn't be there is punching 30 caliber holes in someone who shouldn't be there. There are some people who say the flash is still better for you since you're ready for it, vs the guy you're introducing yourself to.

The muzzle blast 'should' be about the same as a 223/556 as it uses the same case, I don't reload, but I can't imagine you're slamming a ton more powder into the 300 load. A lot of pistols are 'subsonic' so yeah, they still hurt to shoot without earpro on. You're going to be more accurate with the rifle, so you absolutely have that going for you.
I had a 300BLK upper for the ar pistol I used to have that I used to see if I liked 300 to begin with. Was nothing special so I sold it and went with something nicer for the new build. That said, I noticed a huge difference in sound when using subs, and also noticed there was no flash at all when using that upper (which was 8” if I remember correctly).
I could swear 300 blackout is spec’d to get a full powder burn in 10” whereas .223 is spec’d at 20-22. That’s a lot of unburned powder for the .223 coming out of a 9” barrel, which, correct me if I’m wrong, would lead to a much brighter muzzle flash.
Again, I never got much, if any I could see, when using my old 8” 300BLK upper.
 

weekendracer

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I had a 300BLK upper for the ar pistol I used to have that I used to see if I liked 300 to begin with. Was nothing special so I sold it and went with something nicer for the new build. That said, I noticed a huge difference in sound when using subs, and also noticed there was no flash at all when using that upper (which was 8” if I remember correctly).
I could swear 300 blackout is spec’d to get a full powder burn in 10” whereas .223 is spec’d at 20-22. That’s a lot of unburned powder for the .223 coming out of a 9” barrel, which, correct me if I’m wrong, would lead to a much brighter muzzle flash.
Again, I never got much, if any I could see, when using my old 8” 300BLK upper.
300 blk through bolt gun is the way to go with a can on it. But I have a 300 pistol I'm waiting on the titanium can to be approved still, it's currently my 'bump in the night' goto. I don't think I have subsonic loaded, it's been a while. It'll be an 'experience' for both of us if I need to use it.
 

MaverickNH

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My 16.5" Tavor X95 300BO with OSS can is hearing safe with S&B Subsonic and quieter with GEMTech and other specialty ammo. So quiet that I can hear the action cycle. But your SBR will be nicer for close quarters, even if louder.
 

PappyM3

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Waiting on my tax stamp for an sbr built with a 9” barrel in 300blackout. I’m in mass so suppressing isn’t an option, wondering what the best options are for subsonic rounds in terms of lethality and reliable expansion. I don’t need the box to say “home defense” on it, I’m well aware that a round designed for hunting mid size game like whitetail has identical effect on a human sized target. I’m also aware that supersonic has more reliable expansion and higher energy, but in the extremely unlikely event of needing to use it inside the house, I’d prefer to not go deaf if I don’t have to… if I do, then so be it, but I’d like to explore options first.

I’ve been asked why I didn’t go with a .223 setup… I used to have an AR pistol and found the muzzle blast to be absolutely blinding in low light, not to mention that it was uncomfortably loud even with ear pro on. Firing something like that inside a home in the middle of the night in total darkness would be disorienting to the point of having a serious impact on my ability to think, especially if you add in that I’d already be under extreme stress. In other words, that’s a no-go for me. .223/.556 for defense belongs in a barrel 14.5” or above if you can’t suppress it, and even then it’s going to be DAMN loud but at least you won’t lose your night vision.

As a side note, if supersonic 300 blackout is the only reliable option.. has anyone ever compared the decibel levels of unsuppressed 300 and unsuppressed 223?

Thanks in advance

I don’t really have too much against quality subsonic 300blk from a defensive standpoint.

However, without a silencer don’t expect it to be much quieter than supersonic 300blk. I tried to do a test at the range from my 9” AR. Both 110gr Barnes supers and 194gr LeHigh subs maxed out the decibel meter on my phone. I thought about getting a real meter, but I haven’t yet. Both, inside an enclosed area, were loud as shit. The subs were not nearly as mild sounding as supersonic 9mm out of my 9” SP5.

So… while subsonic 300blk has (I think) like half the powder as supers, it is still loud and concussive. Just slightly not quite as loud.
but a lot of hearing damage is done by the supersonic crack of the bullet passing the sound barrier.

Not really.
 
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The 190 hornady subX is a great load if you can get them to feed reliably.

That said, would you consider a 16" barrel and supers or is that too long for your application? In a home defense situation, the 110 varmint bullets may be your best bet, and you're not going to go deaf if you have to use the rifle for that purpose. In the 16" barrel it has considerably less blast than the 223, and you do not need a flash hider, which will cut the length down by an inch or so.

I think I'd really only want to run the 9" barrel with a supressor, to be honest. In a 16" the subsonic loads aren't terribly loud. But in a 9" you're still dealing with a lot of blast and noise, and still not really a full powder burn with most powders despite what the internet tells you.
 
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