300 Blackout

[Trebor]

Savage was actively looking to make a bolt gun in 300 but stopped the process because they couldn't achieve good enough accuracy.

I think they stopped it because they announced it as a 1/10 twist 20 inch barrel, and no one wanted that configuration, so they got no orders. It is then possible that it never occurred to them that they made a mistake on how to specify the rifle, and so assumed their lack of orders meant that they would not sell enough rifles to recover R&D costs. And so canceling the project was a smart move if they really planned to release the rifle with 1/10 twist and a 20 inch barrel because everyone wants 1/7 twist and a 16 inch barrel. In fact, 1/10 twist and a 20 inch barrel would not be able to give good results with subsonic ammunition as the twist is not fast enough to make the bullets stable.

 

[weehooker]

OK, let's flip this around. Why would you be considering a 300?

- An excuse for a new build. I just didn't need/want another 5.56
- Cheap to build since only the barrel differs
- cheap to feed factory or reloaded ammo
- interesting to reload with easy to find components
- because ice cream comes in different flavors too
- because your not married to it. If you don't like it, swap the barrel back to 5.56 and move on.

Personally, I think the caliber "is what it is". It will be better at some things, worse at others. For the $200 investment into a barrel and die set, it's not worth hours of debate. That said, I'll be taking my new 300 AAC Blackout build to the range today for a test run. Betting I get my moneys worth in giggles on the first day.

 

[andrew]

Why not? Cost. 223 can be had for about .30/round if you buy in bulk. Why spend more? Speaking of uppers, I do most of my shooting with a dedicated 22 rimfire upper. As long as you stay within 75 yds performance and point of impact are very similar to 223. The last lot of 22 Blazers I bought cost me $.03/round. Compare that to 223 at $.30/round. I have run about 20,000 rounds of 22 rimfire through my AR. Compared to 223, I saved $5000, including the cost of the 22 rimfire upper and not including the cost of a barrel that the 223 would most likely have worn out. The savings are huge.

I haven't seen $0.30/round in 4 years. Now with O's reelection, all bulk I can find is north of $0.40.

 

[Coyote33]

I haven't seen $0.30/round in 4 years. Now with O's reelection, all bulk I can find is north of $0.40.

WPA is $4.99 for 20.

 

[PatMcD]

I think they stopped it because they announced it as a 1/10 twist 20 inch barrel, and no one wanted that configuration, so they got no orders. It is then possible that it never occurred to them that they made a mistake on how to specify the rifle, and so assumed their lack of orders meant that they would not sell enough rifles to recover R&D costs. And so canceling the project was a smart move if they really planned to release the rifle with 1/10 twist and a 20 inch barrel because everyone wants 1/7 twist and a 16 inch barrel. In fact, 1/10 twist and a 20 inch barrel would not be able to give good results with subsonic ammunition as the twist is not fast enough to make the bullets stable.

1/7 twist? Really? That seems awfully tight. What does that do when you put a non-sub-sonic round down through it?
I'd think 1/10 would be a good compromise, maybe 1/8 at the tightest.

 

[bpm990d]

I ran the numbers through the Miller Stability Calculator for a 220gr Sierra and it was comfortably stable in a 10 twist (around 1.3 if I remember) That being said, the Miller formula is for supersonic bullets. I don't know if there is a similar formula for subsonic projectiles, but it seems like most of the makers are putting 7 & 8 twist barrels on them.

Someone mentioned on the accurate shooter page, that the factory subsonic is designed for 16 inch barrels, so a 20 inch would most likely shoot them right in the transonic zone with potential instability. I'm thinking Savage kinda goofed on what they were doing.

B

 

[crazymjb]

While you may be able to get it to run in a bolt gun, it seems kind of pointless to me. It is basically the ultimate PDW round. Sure it could work in a bolt gun... but why?

Mike

 

[dgrafton]

I haven't seen $0.30/round in 4 years. Now with O's reelection, all bulk I can find is north of $0.40.

Federal 100 count of .223 is $35 at local Walmart. It has come down since August when it was $40.

Wouldn't this cartridge be a good fit for 3 gun divisions requiring .30? I think the Heavy Metal division is .30 rifle, .45 pistol and 12 gauge pump.

 

[Blitz1]

What are your thoughts?





NOTE: I've merged Blitz1's thread with an older one on the same subject - EC

 

[tk421991]

What are your thoughts?

It's something I wouldn't get into unless I was building a suppressed AR. That's its forte. A 125gr 300 Blackout is about 2200 fps, and a 124gr 7.62x39 is about 2400 fps.

So until I either move or RI lifts it's NFA ban, I have no interest. Even if I did, I would rather go with a rifle in 7.62x39 since 300 Blackout is less common, more expensive, and is basically used in ARs only.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I would rather go with a rifle in 7.62x39 since 300 Blackout is less common, more expensive, and is basically used in ARs only.

I'm coming at it from a different angle. I don't buy my ammo, I make it. Making 7.62x39 is a PITA. There's not a lot of reloadable brass, and it takes a .311 bullet which is not terribly uncommon, but there are only a few bullets of this size that are suitable for 7.62x39.

With .300 BLK, you can easily make the brass from 5.56 which is everywhere, and it uses .308 bullets of which there is a huge selection. It's also nice that you can use the same bolt and mags as a .223.

I'm building a .300 BLK upper, just because I can. I probably won't use it for hunting because I already have a 6.8 SPC for that purpose (and the 6.8 SPC is a better cartridge).

 

[pupchow]

In an SBR configuration, would a non-suppressed .300 BLK subsonic round be appreciably quieter than a 5.56?

 

[RedSoxandAKs]

Why do AR guys seem so intent on making them something they are not? I know when you show up to the range you'll impress everyone, but here are some good questions to ask before making the jump to Blackout.

inside 100 yards would this be better than a Kriss V, Hi Point Carbine in .45 or a Beretta CX4?

Is it better in 200-300 than an AK?

Past 100 how is it better than an AR-10, M1A, Garand?

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Why do AR guys seem so intent on making them something they are not? I know when you show up to the range you'll impress everyone, but here are some good questions to ask before making the jump to Blackout.

Wat?

inside 100 yards would this be better than a Kriss V, Hi Point Carbine in .45 or a Beretta CX4?

I assume you are talking about subsonic, since it is ballistic-ally(?) similar to .45ACP, I would say it likely preforms as such. What it does do is use the same reliable magazines you already have if you have an AR15. If you are talking supersonic it will blow a pistol cartridge carbine away.

Is it better in 200-300 than an AK?

Does that really matter? I have read it preforms similarly to the 762x39, but that doesn't really mean anything to me.

Past 100 how is it better than an AR-10, M1A, Garand?

Comparing 300BLK to 308 or 30.06 is apples and oranges.

I have a 300BLK upper because it got me into a reliable subsonic gun to use a suppressor with, that I didn't have to search to find reliable mags for, cheap.

 

[weekendracer]

I fired a Rem 700 in 300 with a YHM (?) can. You can't help but giggle a little every time you pull the trigger. Pfft, whack, giggle, chamber another round, repeat.

I'm gonna get one for my kids when they get older for a 'real' caliber to shoot. Hopefully, I'll be back in Texas and they will be able to hunt hogs with it. No hearing is required, I don't want their ears to ring like mine do (I shot regular rifles with no hearing as a kid, dumbass parents).

 

[AntiHippie]

I'm building a .300 BLK upper, just because I can.

God bless America.


(If powder starts showing up again, I'm planning to start a build for the same reason. Just because.)

 

[Coyote33]

- An excuse for a new build. I just didn't need/want another 5.56
- Cheap to build since only the barrel differs
- cheap to feed factory or reloaded ammo
- interesting to reload with easy to find components
- because ice cream comes in different flavors too
- because your not married to it. If you don't like it, swap the barrel back to 5.56 and move on.

Personally, I think the caliber "is what it is". It will be better at some things, worse at others. For the $200 investment into a barrel and die set, it's not worth hours of debate. That said, I'll be taking my new 300 AAC Blackout build to the range today for a test run. Betting I get my moneys worth in giggles on the first day.

What are you shooting at, and where? Other calibers meet those requirements. The .20 Practical will do all that and shoot flatter.

I'm coming at it from a different angle. I don't buy my ammo, I make it. Making 7.62x39 is a PITA. There's not a lot of reloadable brass, and it takes a .311 bullet which is not terribly uncommon, but there are only a few bullets of this size that are suitable for 7.62x39.

With .300 BLK, you can easily make the brass from 5.56 which is everywhere, and it uses .308 bullets of which there is a huge selection. It's also nice that you can use the same bolt and mags as a .223.

I'm building a .300 BLK upper, just because I can. I probably won't use it for hunting because I already have a 6.8 SPC for that purpose (and the 6.8 SPC is a better cartridge).

What do you hunt? See above if for predators like fox, coyote, bobcat. Maybe one of the .17/223's too.

I know you like to play with pushing the limits reloading. it would be cool to see an AR loaded down with .17 cal for squirrel and rabbit. ;-)

Thanks.