300 Blackout

There is a little more recoil compared to 5.56 but less than .308 . Also, the round is A LOT louder that 5.56. To me, it sounds a lot like a .308 AR, at least using supersonic ammo. I have been waiting till after Christmas to purchase a suppressor for it to test the Decibels of the rounds both super- and subsonic.

I hate to resurrect this thread, but I didn't want to post until i had a good amount of rounds through my 300 BLK upper. I have an 8.2" upper chambered in 300 blk, and have got about 500 or so rounds through it now. I must say that i am impressed with how the round shoots and on the contrary to what thehoyt was saying, i find it to be very quiet. Especially for the barrel length. My 11.5" 5.56 upper sounds significantly louder. The recoil IMHO is still less than 7.62x39 out of my WASR.
I load for 300 Blk and convert all my brass, but my experience is not scientific. But i must say when i shoot water jugs and steel back to back with people firing off 5.56 there is a very significant difference. The 300 blk seems to hit harder with the 110 gr vmax loads i have than any weight bullet in 5.56. First time onlookers give the "what was that?" question when it swings the steel because of how different the impact is.

I must say that overall i am happy with my build. Especially being from MA where 6.8 spc and other rounds take up standard AR Mag capacity, and post ban mags are limited to 10 rounds. Interchangeability is important for me because now i only have 1 lower that has the old .gov stamp of approval. I can't really be scientific as far as ballistics go, but in my experience it gives a very good amount of energy given the short barrel length. Any naysayers should really shoot it back to back with some other rounds, and if it doesn't do anything for them then at least they tried. But for me, it does exactly what i want/need it to do.
 
OK, let's flip this around. Why would you be considering a 300?

... for me, it does exactly what i want/need it to do.

I guess that is the question I was trying to ask earlier. What is it people want to do with these? Is it for hunting? Quiet shooting with subsonic/suppression, which is what I think it was designed for, or for something else?
 
Well for me, I wanted an AR with a barrel as short as possible without sacrificing terminal ballistics/performance. So i went for an 8.2" noveske upper. In MA this makes sense because if you are going to SBR something in 5.56/.223 then you will sacrifice terminal ballistic performance. I will eventually move out of this state(and hopefully to a free state) and will suppress it. Than i can have something quiet that i can shoot day or night when i want to, and still have the ability to have good velocity at close ranges with just a mag change.
Some hunt with it yes, but i cannot attest to that because i don't.
If you aren't going to enter the NFA world or add to it with 300 blk, than it may not be the round for you.

Also, people that refer to muzzle velocity and compare the 300 blk to 6.8 and other calibers that most data is reported on 20" barrels, where the 300 is mostly reported on 16" barrels. Sometimes (for instance of some 6.8 rounds) it is not significant, but others it can be upwards of 200 fps. So for arguments sake that should be taken into account

For me, being in MA and adding to my AR collection, this made the most sense as a different caliber.
 
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Worthless caliber shooting farther than 100 yards! Larry Vickers just did a show on this caliber. Close range only.
 
It's an under-powered round designed for use with a suppressor. If you're not going to run it suppressed, there are much better options.

Not true. 300 BLK has as much energy from a 16 inch barrel as 5.56mm does from a 24 inch barrel. It is a good bump up in power from 5.56mm - and 30 caliber allows one to legally hunt with it in many more areas. Is a 30-30 or 7.62x39mm only good with a suppressor? So why is 300 BLK any different? It is like 7.62x39mm but reliable in an AR - and the ammunition is cheaper than 30-30.

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300 BLK at 750 meters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tgKjbySsAik
 
300 BLK is better in MA than 6.8 or 6.5 because you can use pre-ban 5.56mm magazines and keep the 30 round capacity.
 
Worthless caliber shooting farther than 100 yards! Larry Vickers just did a show on this caliber. Close range only.

Larry Vickers made a serious mistake - look at the video - he had the 100 yard impacts 4 inches low. If you shoot 6.8 4 inches low at 100 yards, it will be 13 inches low at 200 yard - exactly what he got for 300 BLK.

The reality of 300 BLK is that one can shoot from 0 to 230 yards with no sight adjustment at all and always be within +- 3 inches. The maximum effective range by Army M4 standards is 500 yards.

True that 6.8 has about a 17-30 yards more max point blank range, but the practice ammunition is 60% more expensive and it has much more flash, blast, and more recoil.
 
Not true. 300 BLK has as much energy from a 16 inch barrel as 5.56mm does from a 24 inch barrel. It is a good bump up in power from 5.56mm - and 30 caliber allows one to legally hunt with it in many more areas. Is a 30-30 or 7.62x39mm only good with a suppressor? So why is 300 BLK any different? It is like 7.62x39mm but reliable in an AR - and the ammunition is cheaper than 30-30.

You say that like 7.62x39 or 30-30 some sort of be-all-end-all cartridges. They're not. And comparing different cartridges based muzzle energies is pretty silly unless you're lining your prey up execution style. What energy do they have at a typical engagement distance, say 300 yards? Not to mention the fact that most .30 caliber bullets are designed for much higher muzzle velocities and might not even stabilize properly if you run them slow. (And probably won't expand very well either.)

Maybe it's just me but I'm not buying into the hype. If you want to shoot a .30 caliber bullet, there are other cartridges that are better suited. If you want to hunt with an AR-15 there are better cartridges. If you want shotgun ballistics at 100 yards, there are better cartridges. Seems to me that anything you would want to do with a .300 blackout (suppressor uses aside,) you could do better with something else.
 
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I built a 6.8 SPC upper for hunting medium game, and I'm very happy with its performance.

I might build a .300 BLK upper for the hell of it, but I have one question for those of you that load for it: How's the accuracy?

I have limited some limited experience with the cartridge. I loaded some ammo for a friend using trimmed and formed .223 brass, and accuracy was abysmal. Someone that knows about this stuff said it was because cases made from formed/trimmed .223 are too thick in the neck and need to be reamed. If this is the case, it sounds like too much work.
 
Maybe it's just me but I'm not buying into the hype. If you want to shoot a .30 caliber bullet, there are other cartridges that are better suited. If you want to hunt with an AR-15 there are better cartridges. If you want shotgun ballistics at 100 yards, there are better cartridges. Seems to me that anything you would want to do with a .300 blackout (suppressor uses aside,) you could do better with something else.

I think there are no be all end all cartridges. There will always be something better for a specific application. I agree with you when you say that "anything" you could want it to do, but I think what is appealing is more the "everything" capabilities of it. Its a rounded cartridge that (suppressors aside) doesn't shine anywhere over other select calibers, but is versatile due to its compatibility with the AR platform (better ballistics than 5.56, and more compatible, especially in MA, with the AR platform than 6.8 6.5 or 7.62x39) and on top of that it is backed by SAAMI


I built a 6.8 SPC upper for hunting medium game, and I'm very happy with its performance.

I might build a .300 BLK upper for the hell of it, but I have one question for those of you that load for it: How's the accuracy?

I have limited some limited experience with the cartridge. I loaded some ammo for a friend using trimmed and formed .223 brass, and accuracy was abysmal. Someone that knows about this stuff said it was because cases made from formed/trimmed .223 are too thick in the neck and need to be reamed. If this is the case, it sounds like too much work.

As far as accuracy goes, I have only shot it out to 100 (on steel no paper), but i can give her a try at 250 and 350 yards in a couple weeks when i have the time.
Here is a video that has Travis Hayley shooting it at 750 yards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik


But i cannot speak for ballistics at that distance, so again, take the video input with a grain of salt.
 
I think there are no be all end all cartridges. There will always be something better for a specific application. I agree with you when you say that "anything" you could want it to do, but I think what is appealing is more the "everything" capabilities of it. Its a rounded cartridge that (suppressors aside) doesn't shine anywhere over other select calibers, but is versatile due to its compatibility with the AR platform (better ballistics than 5.56, and more compatible, especially in MA, with the AR platform than 6.8 6.5 or 7.62x39) and on top of that it is backed by SAAMI

So instead of doing one thing well it does a lot of things poorly. Ok then....
 
did you hear the military is adopting 6.5 grendel? i mean 6.8 SPC. i mean, they are converting all ARs to 7.62x39 because of the harder hitting round.

Yeah, I heard something like that when I was in back in the 90's. [rofl] Meanwhile any Marine S1 clerk can kill bad guys with a 5.56 from 0 to 550 meters (or more.)
 
So instead of doing one thing well it does a lot of things poorly. Ok then....

point obviously missed...

I'm just giving my experience on the caliber, because i went with a build and by doing that i took a chance. I like it because in the applications i wanted ( AR platform, reasonable ballistics, super short barrel and eventually be able to suppress) it made the most sense. A lot more sense than 6.8 because i live in MA and would be limited to 10 round mags. Also, the commercial backing is there for future development of the round (bullet sizes, weights) as well as the platforms that shoot it.
I'm trying to cut through some of the hype around it, but also cut out some of the BS on the other side of the coin. The round is still in its infancy, and people shouldn't dismiss its capabilities to go against the "hype" or by looking at numbers on a chart and jumping to conclusions.
 
He said "weapons system" and "CQB" in under one minute. He must know his shit.

Please don't quote me out of context. Right after the link i posted the disclaimer of "please take the video input with a grain of salt"

I said that because i know Travis isn't the go to expert on anything and everything that has to do with firearms.
 
point obviously missed...

I'm just giving my experience on the caliber, because i went with a build and by doing that i took a chance. I like it because in the applications i wanted ( AR platform, reasonable ballistics, super short barrel and eventually be able to suppress) it made the most sense. A lot more sense than 6.8 because i live in MA and would be limited to 10 round mags. Also, the commercial backing is there for future development of the round (bullet sizes, weights) as well as the platforms that shoot it.
I'm trying to cut through some of the hype around it, but also cut out some of the BS on the other side of the coin. The round is still in its infancy, and people shouldn't dismiss its capabilities to go against the "hype" or by looking at numbers on a chart and jumping to conclusions.

OK, serious face... The benefits are:

  1. It's a good subsonic round for suppressed use. No argument there.
  2. It uses 5.56 brass, so you can use your pre-ban 30 round 5.56 mags.
  3. I can't think of a #3, but I'm all ears. ("It's cool because some tactical trainer guy uses in a class doesn't count.")

The OP asked about it for hunting. I don't see how any of those benefits apply to a hunter. I don't see how any of those benefits apply to a target shooter. I also don't see how any of those benefit apply to a SHTF zombie post-apocalypse warrior (maybe the suppressor, but how many of those are going to be laying around in that scenario?)

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Please don't quote me out of context. Right after the link i posted the disclaimer of "please take the video input with a grain of salt"

I said that because i know Travis isn't the go to expert on anything and everything that has to do with firearms.

Relax, I'm just busting balls. I don't really care if people buy a .300 blackout, I just think it's funny when the hype supersedes the utility.
 
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Relax, I'm just busting balls. I don't really care if people buy at .300 blackout, I just think it's funny when the hype supposes the utility.

I agree that the hype goes way to far in respect to what the round can accomplish.

The OP is asking what is not to like about it, and suggested hunting something bigger than Coyotes. With Sierra 125 OTM bullets, and Barnes 110 gr. that are catered to 300 Blk there are many good reports on taking down larger (than coyote) game. Look on 300blktalk forums for more info, cause i can't speak from personal experience on that one.

As far as other benefits, it uses more commercially available .308 projectiles, and i happen to load .308 and 30-06 so that made the transition easy. It also has good ballistics for barrel length, so (like i said a little ways ago) if you are going NFA length and still want the versatility to hunt with the same caliber its not a bad choice. Recoil is very light as well. As far as the target shooter, i got nothin' for you. If you want to talk SHTF then improvised suppressors out of common materials would be something i would bring up as another benefit.

Bottom line: shoot it first, then decide if its for you or not for you. For me, it is but others its not.
 
What energy do they have at a typical engagement distance, say 300 yards? Not to mention the fact that most .30 caliber bullets are designed for much higher muzzle velocities and might not even stabilize properly if you run them slow. (And probably won't expand very well either.)



300BLK-300-small-500x336.jpg


At 300 yards - they expand to more than 50 caliber and make a 20-24 inch long hole (20 inch from a 9 inch barrel).


Existing bullets expand: http://www.300aacblackout.com/resources/300AACBlackout06OCT2010.pdf

But there are several bullets which are our or coming our that are tuned just right.

Maybe it's just me but I'm not buying into the hype. If you want to shoot a .30 caliber bullet, there are other cartridges that are better suited.

Not if you want to shoot it from an AR15 while using existing 30 round magazines.

If you want to hunt with an AR-15 there are better cartridges.

Perhaps, but 6.8 gives up using normal magazines, a normal bolt, and the practice ammunition is 60% more expensive. Will the deer know the difference?

If you want shotgun ballistics at 100 yards, there are better cartridges.

Not sure what that means.

Seems to me that anything you would want to do with a .300 blackout (suppressor uses aside,) you could do better with something else.

300 BLK is the most powerful way to shoot 30 caliber from an AR15 that uses normal magazines with full capacity.
 
  1. It's a good subsonic round for suppressed use. No argument there.
  2. It uses 5.56 brass, so you can use your pre-ban 30 round 5.56 mags.
  3. I can't think of a #3, but I'm all ears. ("It's cool because some tactical trainer guy uses in a class doesn't count.")

Has much less flash, blast, and noise than 5.56mm.
Legal for hunting in states which don't allow smaller calibers.
As much energy from a 16 inch barrel as 5.56mm from a 24 inch barrel.
Much better intermediate barrier performance than the best FBI-adopted 5.56mm.
Expands to 0.600 at 300 yards - the best 5.56mm is 0.400. Covert the diameter to the area and it is 125% more.
Cheaper than 30-30, and works in ARs.
Far more reliable than 7.62x39mm in ARs.
30 cal bullets are available as surplus/pulled and cheaper than 22 cal bullet.
Almost 150 companies have recently adopted it - far faster growth than 6.8 - and 6.8 practice ammunition is 60% more expensive.
 
300 BLK is the most powerful way to shoot 30 caliber from an AR15 that uses normal magazines with full capacity.

Yeah, I guess that's where I'm missing the bandwagon. To me it's a neat oddball cartridge for a couple very specific use-cases and that it. It's cool though, shoot what makes you happy.
 
...30 caliber allows one to legally hunt with it in many more areas. Is a 30-30 or 7.62x39mm only good with a suppressor? So why is 300 BLK any different? It is like 7.62x39mm but reliable in an AR - and the ammunition is cheaper than 30-30. ...

.300AAC is cheaper than 30-30? Really? I know which one is more available.


300 BLK is better in MA than 6.8 or 6.5 because you can use pre-ban 5.56mm magazines and keep the 30 round capacity.

What about 30 Remington® AR and 30 TC , which were designed for hunting, not for suppressed shooting?

.30 Remington AR The idea behind the product is to give .308 Win. type performance in an AR-15 sized upper.



... The benefits are:
  1. It's a good subsonic round for suppressed use. No argument there.
  2. It uses 5.56 brass, so you can use your pre-ban 30 round 5.56 mags.
  3. I can't think of a #3, but I'm all ears. ("It's cool because some tactical trainer guy uses in a class doesn't count.")

The OP asked about it for hunting. I don't see how any of those benefits apply to a hunter. I don't see how any of those benefits apply to a target shooter. I also don't see how any of those benefit apply to a SHTF zombie post-apocalypse warrior (maybe the suppressor, but how many of those are going to be laying around in that scenario?)

The logical move? Neck the .450 down to .30-caliber. The result? The .30 Remington AR — a .30-caliber that would drive a 125-grain bullet at 2,800 fps and a 150-grain to almost 2,600 fps.

with bullets up to 165-grain it is true that the .30 TC delivers energy and speed equal to or better than the .30-06 in a smaller cartridge. ... There is no question that the .30 TC is a sweetheart to shoot. Recoil is mild and, with no scientific instruments to back up my claim, I'd say comparable to a .243 rifle. The .30 TC is also very accurate.



... At 300 yards - they expand to more than 50 caliber and make a 20-24 inch long hole (20 inch from a 9 inch barrel).

But there are several bullets which are our or coming our that are tuned just right.

Not if you want to shoot it from an AR15 while using existing 30 round magazines.

Perhaps, but 6.8 gives up using normal magazines, a normal bolt, and the practice ammunition is 60% more expensive. Will the deer know the difference?

300 BLK is the most powerful way to shoot 30 caliber from an AR15 that uses normal magazines with full capacity.

Oh? See links above.

Has much less flash, blast, and noise than 5.56mm.
Legal for hunting in states which don't allow smaller calibers.
As much energy from a 16 inch barrel as 5.56mm from a 24 inch barrel.
Much better intermediate barrier performance than the best FBI-adopted 5.56mm.
Expands to 0.600 at 300 yards - the best 5.56mm is 0.400. Covert the diameter to the area and it is 125% more.
Cheaper than 30-30, and works in ARs.
Far more reliable than 7.62x39mm in ARs.
30 cal bullets are available as surplus/pulled and cheaper than 22 cal bullet.
Almost 150 companies have recently adopted it - far faster growth than 6.8 - and 6.8 practice ammunition is 60% more expensive.

There are options which are better suited for hunting, but maybe this is the best option for suppressed shooting.

I don't know why you and other people are so gung ho about this cartridge, when the 6.8, 30AR, 30 T/C, and others exist which do hunting and other things better.
 
.300AAC is cheaper than 30-30? Really? I know which one is more available.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&catid=545
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&catid=6908

What about 30 Remington® AR and 30 TC , which were designed for hunting, not for suppressed shooting?

The 300 BLK was designed for regular shooting with 7.62x39mm ballistics. Because subsonic ammunition is also available that still cycles the AR, it is also popular for suppressor use. But normal full power ammunition is far more popular. The 30 RAR does not have 30 round capability.

Oh? See links above.

The 30 RAR does not have 30 round capability.

There are options which are better suited for hunting, but maybe this is the best option for suppressed shooting.

It is the best option for anyone who wants lower cost 30 cal ammunition and the ability to use 30 round magazines.

I don't know why you and other people are so gung ho about this cartridge, when the 6.8, 30AR, 30 T/C, and others exist which do hunting and other things better.

6.8 practice ammunition is more than 60% more expensive and it requires special magazines - no one which are pre-ban, and the deer is not going to feel the difference.
 
To me it's a neat oddball cartridge for a couple very specific use-cases and that it.

It has a wider range of use than most cartridges due to the ability to use bullets from 100 to 250 grains. Very broad and unspecific use.
 
Interesting info on the lower cost than 30-30, and that 30 Rem AR and 6.8 don't fit standard AR magazines.

Also, if people are going to shoot any of these a lot, doesn't that kind of invalidate the cost of ammo argument, as they would probably reload?
 
Every time I hear the term weapon system, this is the first thing that pops into my head. I had one when I was eight. It was a POS tier III toy made by Lorcin. [laugh]

B

system7.jpg
 
Every time I hear the term weapon system, this is the first thing that pops into my head. I had one when I was eight. It was a POS tier III toy made by Lorcin. [laugh]

You should have had the JSOMA. It was the H&K or Sig of toy guns. My neighbor had one, and it was V-E-R-Y cool.
 
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