223 vs 5.56 ETA: steel vs brass?

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Bought Lady Radtekk an M&P Sport II last week as her wedding gift. Yeah, I'm a lucky man! Anyway, need some advice on which to shoot and why. I know .223 is cheaper, both come in 55 & 62 grain. Aside from that, why do I care?

We're going to put a cheap red dot on the gun, figure out what she likes, probably pass it down to my daughters and get something "better" in a year or so.

My biggest issue now is ammo. What works best in that gun and why? I've heard about twist, barrel length, other stuff, need somebody smarter than me to cut through the bs :) We shoot exclusively 50 & 100 yards, non-competetive.

Educate me:)

NEW QUESTION: Steel vs brass?
 
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1/7 Twist barrels like the heavier bullets as a 1/9 twist barrel prefers the lighter bullets. So if your MP Sport has a 1/9 twist barrel, I would stick with the 55 grain stuff. If it is 1/7, it will most likely handle the 62 grain better.

What works best all depends on the rifle really. For example I shot sub moa with some XM855 one week and then used some Armscor 62 grain .223 and it did not come close. The 5.56 stuff is "hotter" than a .223. If just shooting for fun with a red dot you probably will not notice a difference.



Oh yeah and congrats on getting married [cheers]
 
.223/5.56 vs. Price

Buy and fire different brands and weights, decide what you/your gun shoot best, then buy a case of that ammo.
 
For the most part unless you buy a variety and have access to the same lot# of what ever ammo your gun shoots best with then just buy and shoot whAt ever you can find locally in what ever quantity your wallet can handle.
Your MP has a chamber that will handle 223 and 5.56
Some rifles do well with almost anything.

Buy according to your expectations and shooting .....no need to buy lapua/fed/hornady/ match grade if your going to just be doing 50 yard red dot torso target blasting.

I prefer the m193 55 grain 5.56 vs m855 62 grain 5.56.
Wolf gold does very well in my 1/9 NATO chambered A2
It was cheaper than any 5.56 "NATO" branded stuff for some time.
Also I get very good accuracy from PPU M193 out of my 1/8 Wylde chamber. Any steel cased ammo should be just fine for blasting/plinking
but steel cased ammo.....Wolf in particular has crappy accuracy in my 1/8 twist better in the 1/9....

M193 always been more accurate than the 62 grain stuff in my rifles.
The 62 grain m855 bullet is of a 3 piece construction and if you ask me trying to cram a tip of steel inside a thin copper jacket and then cram some lead in there can't make for a uniform bullet.
Good enough for GI yes...

In the end I recommend you think about reloading. It's really not hard. For the cost of a case of decent 223 you can be well on your way to loading and finding a load well suited for your rifle.
Then you can make anything you want and not dictated by what's on the shelf.

That was the #1 reason I started reloading. Dealers just didn't have what I wanted

Ohh and every time you buy ammo or different types and lot numbers expect a slight shift in where the bullets hit from where your last bat,h did...
My A2 rifle I use to shoot anything and everything I don't adjust the sights each time. They are adjusted for the PPU M193 I use the most and have the most of.

I will add. When I shoot my regular A2 for score I will adjust my sights as needed to get the shots closer the the X.
This depends on your sights also.
If you got BUIS with out elevation zero at 50 yards and carry on.
Red dot about the same.
A2 sights. I set mine to 25m zero target with M193. If I use anything else it's close enough to not worry.
On my match rifle I have it zeroed for 100 yards and adjust as needed for 200,300,600

Have fun
 
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You will find no better advice than this. ^^^
 
Buy the cheap brass cases 55 gr .223 or 5.56. I've also had great results with wolf gold .223. It's 31-35 cents shipped depending if you have friends in a free state or you're limited to MA only. Wolf gold is all I shoot in my 1/8 wylde barrel AR at 120 yards. Once I shoot it all, onto my reloads.

Mac1911 has great advice. I will say that for some people, reloading may not be the best if you're just plinking at 50-100 yards and you're not shooting 500 rounds per week. Though it is very rewarding and fun (kinda, rifle being much more involved than pistol). But another good point from Mac is being limited to what vendors and shops have in stock. Could get ugly again come November...
 
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Is the M&P sport designed for .223 and 5.56? I have been told that if your barrel only says .223, don't use 5.56 as there can be enough of a difference to adversely affect the gun.
 
Is the M&P sport designed for .223 and 5.56? I have been told that if your barrel only says .223, don't use 5.56 as there can be enough of a difference to adversely affect the gun.

Those were my thoughts as I read this thread. So far nobody has mentioned what the rifle is even chambered in.
 
Is the M&P sport designed for .223 and 5.56? I have been told that if your barrel only says .223, don't use 5.56 as there can be enough of a difference to adversely affect the gun.

According to S&W it's 5.56.

I would be very surprised to find many ARs that are chambered only for .223. Sometimes you see the Wylde chamber but most guns are 5.56 . At this point anything thats .223 only should come with a big flaming warning tag in the box only to use .223, because 5.56 is so prevalent at this point.

-Mike
 
Buy the cheapest stuff you can find. At 50 and 100 yards it won't make enough of a difference to pay extra for 'good ammo.'


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Is the M&P sport designed for .223 and 5.56? I have been told that if your barrel only says .223, don't use 5.56 as there can be enough of a difference to adversely affect the gun.

MP Sport is chambered for 5.56 so it will handle both. Guns chambered for .223 with a Wylde chamber will handle both.

"in the beginning" there was no difference between these rounds...gradually they diverged as mil spec requirements changed to a standard NATO spec.

Colt Sporter ARs were marked .223 for years to designate their "civilian" usage. Whether these earlier AR15s will handle today's 5.56 I don't know. I think it would be hard to find any modern AR platform not marked 5.56. Bolt action hunting rifles, a different story. .223 is a great varmit round and probably okay up to white tail size game. It is quite adequate as an anti personnel round and I doubt seriously if a threat would really know or feel the difference with a solid COM hit with a .223 or a 5.56.

For an M&P Sport and for your purposes I'd get what was the cheapest and have fun. These are nice little entry level ARs and now that we have a 2nd Gen, I imagine 1st Gen Sports might be good deals at LGSs if you can find one.
 
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So far sounds like 98% in favor of .223 especially since it's a bit cheaper. Thanks for the advice, ESPECIALLY Mac1911!!! Talking to Lady Radtekk a few minutes ago, she told me "The guy at KTP said to use brass vs steel, not sure why, there was a LOT going on". I may at some point start reloading rifle, but still (I know, I know! haven't gotten my pistol reloading set up yet. So until then, any reason NOT to use steel-case?
 
Steel case works just fine. There are some who argue that it will wear out parts (extractor, etc...) faster, but the money savings will more than pay for any early replacements.

In rough terms, I buy steel case in bulk for 25 cents per round, and brass between 30-35 cents. The brass stuff tends to be more accurate, so if I am trying to make small groups from the bench at 100 yards, that's what I shoot. If I am shooting off hand, using iron sights, or just playing around with the kids, we use the steel cased stuff.
 
Most steel case ammo uses bimetal jackets, not standard copper jackets.

This cuts barrel life in half.

It's still cheaper to shoot steel even with a new barrel every 5k rounds, but I can't bring myself to do it.
 
I don't think barrel life is much of a issue for most. how many people buying MP sports are going to dump 6k rounds + through their rifles?

that said the price swing right now is not that great brass vs steel but still a bit of $ saved. I just did a ammo order for a friend. both wolf gold and Fed m193 where 360.00/1000 shipped and the Wolf WPA 62 grain HP where 240.00/1000 shipped.
if your looking to just do range blasting with a red dot on torso size targets why not go with the cheap shit anyway? Even at $100 per 1000 round savings that's ( lets say your average AR barrel can go 10,000 rounds with quality ammo)
$500 bucks saved in 5000 rounds shooting steel and by the time you go through 6k rounds you will most likely want a new gun anyway? now if you go 10,000 rounds of brass $3600 vs 5000 steel $1200

I have come to trust one of my club members Ret. USMC armoror tail end of the M1s and stayed therough until the m16A2. his thoughts are. any mil spec AR/M16 today should run anything with out issue and says his opinion is theres something wrong with the gun if it don't.

so buy 1k rounds of something a good sling and head to a CMP shoot! ohh buy the way WOLF is the only ammo company I know of with a satisfaction guaranty. Not happy call them. They send out a call tag for shipping and copy of receipt and theey will refund you for the un used ammo including tax....I have done it 3 times. bad lot of wolf 22lr match, 500 rounds of 45acp and last year I got a case of 55gn fmj that had soft and hollow points mixed in.

Want to shoot some shitty ammo try UMC....
 
Good article from Erik Winter, Gunsmith at WW.
Side note. Their Varmint Exterminator barrel is marked .223, but WW says it is safe to fire 5.56


FROM THE GUNSMITH'S BENCH

TOPIC: Our Thoughts on Steel Cased Ammunition

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/newsletters/06182013.asp

Interesting they mentioned stuck cases as being an issue with steel cased ammo. I shoot 90%+ brass in my AR's and the only stuck case I had was with TulAmmo steel cased.
 
Interesting they mentioned stuck cases as being an issue with steel cased ammo. I shoot 90%+ brass in my AR's and the only stuck case I had was with TulAmmo steel cased.
Same here. Luckily my friend had an AK with him that had the cleaning rod attached. I now keep a cleaning kit, with rod, in the buttstock.

ETA: Wolf and Silver Bear have never been a problem.
 
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Good article from Erik Winter, Gunsmith at WW.
Side note. Their Varmint Exterminator barrel is marked .223, but WW says it is safe to fire 5.56


FROM THE GUNSMITH'S BENCH

TOPIC: Our Thoughts on Steel Cased Ammunition

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/newsletters/06182013.asp

There are things mentioned here that just make me go , what?
1. If the gun is broken in first with brass cased ammo this helps seal the gas system somewhat which will make the lower powered steel cased ammo work a bit better
How does it seal the gas system somewhat? By carbon fouling?
2. It's funny none of these test actually test the hardness of the jackets ?
3. My gut tells me the burn rate and chemical make up of the powder and primers has more of a effect on the barrels than the jackets or cases.
4. I would like to see the same test done with a saiga ak 47. Brass vs steel?

It's all good have fun. Oh and here's a little thing I been doing off and on. Slowly posting what different ammo does in my rifles.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...on-of-different-bullets-ammo?highlight=Random
 
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