21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

[jhblaze1]

Notably, these two sections are in conflict:


The second pretty much paraphrases "Key Finding 2" from the Final Report of the Safe Schools Initiative.

You're right that mental health issues are slow to bubble over, and that our system deals with them terribly. That seems to often be the result of late (or zero) intervention. How much of this could be interrupted if we actually were working to help kids build skills to thrive emotionally?


They're in their bunk with the Teachers GW thread...

Yeah I mean that's the point.....We can't just red flag anyone who has ever seen a shrink, but waiting til a nutcase goes on a rampage is too late. We can't blame mental health while defunding access to mental health. Blaming inanimate objects is patently retarded. I really don't know what the answer is. Bullying is relentless and now has the whole cyber component. No one does shit about it. constant long term bullying absolutely destroys a kid. I don't understand how parents can raise horrible little monsters and either not care that their kids is a little POS bully, or are completely tuned out to it. It's a very complex problem with many facets and we don't make any progress in addressing it. Dems mail it in by blaming guns, demonizing us and no new gun ban will solve it (obviously). Our society is f***ing rotten, and I'm not sure how redeemable it is.

 

[SteelShooter]

Again, where is this NES-phantom group of dads?

They're working during the school day. Or, if they're not, you're thinking they'd just hang out in front of the school, looking around, waiting endlessly for something that's almost certain never to happen? For eight hours a day?

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but I don't see it as a long-term solution. At all. Guarding things is inherently boring. You need to heavily incentivize guards if you expect them to do a good job, and I don't see that happening. Though I'm aware that sounds pessimistic.

Heck, my daughter can't even get students parents to come to parent teacher meetings for 10 minutes, so they'll be no help there either.

 

[SteelShooter]

Nope, these people should have qualified immunity no different than popo

Seriously.....you walk up to/approach a school in session with a long gun slung at low/high ready you ought to expect to be put down hard without questions.

Its absolutely a solution.....when shitbags know they wont get away with stunts and go directly to the crematorium without passing go or ending up on the front page of national news they will cease trying.

It really is that simple

They could always just shoot them in the leg or put a shotgun blast in the air

 

[weekendracer]

Again, where is this NES-phantom group of dads?

They're working during the school day. Or, if they're not, you're thinking they'd just hang out in front of the school, looking around, waiting endlessly for something that's almost certain never to happen? For eight hours a day?

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but I don't see it as a long-term solution. At all. Guarding things is inherently boring. You need to heavily incentivize guards if you expect them to do a good job, and I don't see that happening. Though I'm aware that sounds pessimistic.

Look at what I'm working with. The two solutions on the table are 'take all the guns away', or 'make a school look like a prison'. Throw a guy a bone.

edit: I do plan on subbing at this school like I did my last kids' school. I stand out, in a big way among the other male teachers generally speaking.

 

[June4th]

Any way we discuss this, if it happened in 1862, Americans in any town would’ve come up with an effective and affordable solution to secure their schools the same day.

It really shows how far down the sh*t creek we have gone.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Even if we're talking about semi-competent people showing up to take that job (some guy that knows how to use a gun and isnt a total wussbag) good luck getting enough to fill that
demand at a pay rate suitable to offset the fact that its one of the most boring jobs on the planet. (@Picton is right there.... most of this is all BS for an event that will never happen)

Lol people talk shit in public facing occasions about saving the chilllldren etc but let's get honest, nobody wants to pay for that shit. Especially not when outside of the MSM brainwashing sphere anyone with a brain KNOWS this is small odds BS.

Nobody wants to hear it but as a "cause of death of children" school shootings are basically bordering on being statistically insignificant. On the other hand, a few hundred children drown in pools, lakes, ponds, rivers, and bathtubs every year. Almost 2-3 times that will also die of cancer. I also would not be shocked to find out if more young children die from
allergens (peanuts, eggs, whatever) every year than get shot by some a**h*** in a school. More school aged children will COMMIT SUICIDE than be shot in schools. (nobody likes talking about that one)

Even if the "cause is noble" I think mostly school shooting BS is symptoms of three problems far worse:

-government corruption (good luck with that) like cops that dont show up when it happens, FBI invent a terrorist program etcs
-A massive failure of mental healthcare and mental health policy in america (the effects of this WRT children outside of school shootings is massive btw, if people were actually paying attention, far more kids will end up in serious mental health crisis states vs being shot in a school. WAY More kids under 18 in a given year will COMMIT SUICIDE than be shot by
school shooters. (if you can't even stop kids with likely known issues from killing themselves, good luck protecting them in a school)
-MSM manipulating the public for political purposes and ratings. (good luck fixing this without getting people away from being obsessed with the news and the faggot 24 hr news
cycle that has basically helped ruin our society)

I think we need to follow the Israeli model for this. They have a multi layered plan on how to handle school security. It's a little infringy, but if we are really talking about protecting schools I think this is the way we need to do it. Also, arm teachers if they want to be. This blanket ban is the primary reason these things happen in schools.

Texas school shooting: Could Israeli school security methods serve as model for US schools?

Following the Texas school shooting in Uvalde, observers say Israel's security approach could be useful to schools in the U.S.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Picton]

Look at what I'm working with. The two solutions on the table are 'take all the guns away', or 'make a school look like a prison'. Throw a guy a bone.

edit: I do plan on subbing at this school like I did my last kids' school. I stand out, in a big way among the other male teachers generally speaking.

There’s another solution: lift GFZ. Thats all. Nothing more.

I don’t want extra training. I don’t want QI. I just want the same right I have anywhere else in the state: self-defense. I’ll still expect to be arrested, my license suspended, possibly charged if I shoot in self-defense at a school, just as anywhere else; I’m not naive.

I’m not a cop and I don’t want to be. I’m not going to move through the school like Rambo, hunting mini-Klebold. Just like in any other place I go, I’m going to seek exits for myself and those in my care, and if engaged I’ll shoot back.

That’s all. It doesn’t need to be a big thing.

 

[Rockrivr1]

There’s another solution: lift GFZ. Thats all. Nothing more.

I don’t want extra training. I don’t want QI. I just want the same right I have anywhere else in the state: self-defense. I’ll still expect to be arrested, my license suspended, possibly charged if I shoot in self-defense at a school, just as anywhere else; I’m not naive.

I’m not a cop and I don’t want to be. I’m not going to move through the school like Rambo, hunting mini-Klebold. Just like in any other place I go, I’m going to seek exits for myself and those in my care, and if engaged I’ll shoot back.

That’s all. It doesn’t need to be a big thing.

It's a hard decision as to whether you carry and possibly be fired if found out or face a shooter unarmed. I don't envy your decision. Though I bet they'd never know if you carried concealed properly. Though again, tough choice.

 

[Picton]

It's a hard decision as to whether you carry and possibly be fired if found out or face a shooter unarmed. I don't envy your decision. Though I bet they'd never know if you carried concealed properly. Though again, tough choice.

Certainly be fired. Certainly be prosecuted.

I know some teachers carry unlawfully. They know it too. It’d be great if they didn’t have to worry about GFZ.

 

[jhblaze1]

Semi auto handguns are the real problem

to respond in the manner of Gen Z teenage girls, you give me the icks.

 

[June4th]

There’s another solution: lift GFZ. Thats all. Nothing more.

I don’t want extra training. I don’t want QI. I just want the same right I have anywhere else in the state: self-defense. I’ll still expect to be arrested, my license suspended, possibly charged if I shoot in self-defense at a school, just as anywhere else; I’m not naive.

I’m not a cop and I don’t want to be. I’m not going to move through the school like Rambo, hunting mini-Klebold. Just like in any other place I go, I’m going to seek exits for myself and those in my care, and if engaged I’ll shoot back.

That’s all. It doesn’t need to be a big thing.

It says something that not many Republican that I know of, has brought up the topic of repealing GFSZA, ever. Shameful. Here's one guy who tries: Congressman Massie Introduces Bill to Repeal Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act I don't know if any actually proposed such bills when GOP had majority.

 

[Picton]

Well.

Turns out one of the responding cops was Ruiz, the SRO at the high school.

His wife called him during the attack.

His wife was Eva Mireles, one of the dead teachers.

So… he got to listen to his own wife dying on the phone while his boss delayed in getting aid to her…

 

[shootymacshootface]

Trucks have more than one purpose? Guns really don't. Guns were invented to take lives. Especially the .223 round, which was developed by the US Army and Remington for warfare.

So, I guess the .222 Remington, which was designed for extremely accurate varmint hunting and preceeded the .223/.556 by many years, doesn't exist? The .222 Remington and the .223 are almost identical in every way, physically and ballisticaly. It is no coincidence, because it is the very cartridge that they wanted to mimic without actually using a sporting cartridge. We'll just keep on believing everything that we see on the news and pretend that facts don't actually matter.
Let's talk about a product that was never designed to kill anything, but kills over 30,000 people a year, automobiles. I believe that it is over 3 times as many deaths than firearms.
How about alcohol? Booze isn't made to harm anyone, yet it does. Where is the outrage?

And then there are the Kennedys. They have killed more people than any of my guns have, well maybe except for my Luger.

 

[meh]

Red flag laws won't work if the school shooters of the future magically evade being red flagged despite that, in hindsight, they obviously should have been. I agree with @Picton. The simplest common sense measure that will reduce the body count is to make it legal to carry there. I don't know what else we can do, but we could do that easily. Never happen.

 

[drgrant]

There’s another solution: lift GFZ. Thats all. Nothing more.

I don’t want extra training. I don’t want QI. I just want the same right I have anywhere else in the state: self-defense. I’ll still expect to be arrested, my license suspended, possibly charged if I shoot in self-defense at a school, just as anywhere else; I’m not naive.

I’m not a cop and I don’t want to be. I’m not going to move through the school like Rambo, hunting mini-Klebold. Just like in any other place I go, I’m going to seek exits for myself and those in my care, and if engaged I’ll shoot back.

That’s all. It doesn’t need to be a big thing.

I agree, but bear in mind.... Even if GFSZ is gone there is still the problem that most shitty state laws still ban guns in schools. GFSZ has very little to do with that.

A friend of mine, one of his kids became a schoolteacher out in like UT or something and the area she was in.... it was legal for teachers to be armed if they had a resident carry license, apparently, but nobody went about talking about it.

 

[Junior314]

Again, where is this NES-phantom group of dads?

They're working during the school day. Or, if they're not, you're thinking they'd just hang out in front of the school, looking around, waiting endlessly for something that's almost certain never to happen? For eight hours a day?

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but I don't see it as a long-term solution. At all. Guarding things is inherently boring. You need to heavily incentivize guards if you expect them to do a good job, and I don't see that happening. Though I'm aware that sounds pessimistic.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2021-10-28/dads-on-duty-patrol-louisiana-school-to-prevent-violence

Well.

Turns out one of the responding cops was Ruiz, the SRO at the high school.

His wife called him during the attack.

His wife was Eva Mireles, one of the dead teachers.

So… he got to listen to his own wife dying on the phone while his boss delayed in getting aid to her…

And he chose to standby absolutely mind boggling.

Unrelated to the two quoted posts…

Has it been brought up that this kid poses for pictures in friends cars holding a bag of dead cats? Also that his family knew about it and reported nothing.

New video shows Texas school shooter Salvador Ramos holding bag of dead cats

The deranged 18-year-old gunman is seen smiling in the undated footage while sitting in the passenger seat of a pal’s car.

www.google.com

 

[kevin9]

More incompetence:

Uvalde, Texas shooting: State senator says police chief didn’t receive 911 calls from school

A Texas state senator said during a Thursday press conference that the school district police chief did not receive 911 calls during the May 24 shooting

www.foxnews.com

Or, and I hate to think this way, more butt-covering for the IC.

 

[Dadstoys]

probably the biggest problem in this country is no one actually wants to look forward and solve problems but simply just blame the other party. Rs and Ds are just different ends of the same putrid turd.

Won't argue that .

 

[Junior314]

More incompetence:

Uvalde, Texas shooting: State senator says police chief didn’t receive 911 calls from school

A Texas state senator said during a Thursday press conference that the school district police chief did not receive 911 calls during the May 24 shooting

www.foxnews.com

Or, and I hate to think this way, more butt-covering for the IC.

Roland Gutierrez is a grandstanding piece of trash.

"I want to know specifically who was receiving the 911 calls," Gutierrez said, adding that no single person or entity was fully to blame for the massacre. "There was error at every level, including the legislative level. Greg Abbott has plenty of blame in all of this."

Here’s who is to blame.

1) Shooter
2) Shooter’s trash family
3) Chicken sh*t officers

I am so sick of everyone always thinking every single problem needs to be solved by lawmakers. Maybe our “leadership” should start talking up a stable family that includes a father.

 

[Dadstoys]

Never going to happen as long as the human puppy mills get paid by the crotch fruit .

 

[weekendracer]

There’s another solution: lift GFZ. Thats all. Nothing more.

I don’t want extra training. I don’t want QI. I just want the same right I have anywhere else in the state: self-defense. I’ll still expect to be arrested, my license suspended, possibly charged if I shoot in self-defense at a school, just as anywhere else; I’m not naive.

I’m not a cop and I don’t want to be. I’m not going to move through the school like Rambo, hunting mini-Klebold. Just like in any other place I go, I’m going to seek exits for myself and those in my care, and if engaged I’ll shoot back.

That’s all. It doesn’t need to be a big thing.

Again, I'm not in disagreement. But you and I both know that is NOT going to happen. So, I can either scream at the clouds, or try and find some solution that actually does something in the future.

 

[Picton]

Again, I'm not in disagreement. But you and I both know that is NOT going to happen. So, I can either scream at the clouds, or try and find some solution that actually does something in the future.

I know what solution they'll favor. Bulletproof windows and more advanced locks. Metal detectors.

I'm not even sure they're bad ideas. But I still want my gun on me, legally.

 

[Picton]

Well.

Turns out one of the responding cops was Ruiz, the SRO at the high school.

His wife called him during the attack.

His wife was Eva Mireles, one of the dead teachers.

So… he got to listen to his own wife dying on the phone while his boss delayed in getting aid to her…

I can't imagine Ruiz was actually in the hallway. Because he obviously would have disobeyed orders, I hope.

But late reporting indicates that one of her friends certainly was out there, and he's now saying he was with her as she passed. The only reasonable inference is that, if she was shot early on (as the kids say she was) and was at some point conscious and alert enough to call her husband during the "siege," only to die in a friendly cop's arms... well, she must not have passed until after they made entry.

So... yeah. There's a death that's directly attributable to the delay.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

There is a real solution but it wouldn’t be popular:

Any time a shooter shoots up a school

1) his entire family to two relationship hops are rounded up and held pending results of his trial if he lives and then

2) all rounded up relatives are publicly executed by a firing squad to include volunteer parents of the dead children with the shooter forced to watch (if still alive) and then

3) the shooter is executed last

Families with psychopaths would “fix them” fast themselves before they ever got near a school after a few of these events.

 

[Dench]

There is a real solution but it wouldn’t be popular:

Any time a shooter shoots up a school

1) his entire family to two relationship hops are rounded up and held pending results of his trial if he lives and then

2) all rounded up relatives are publicly executed by a firing squad to include volunteer parents of the dead children with the shooter forced to watch (if still alive) and then

3) the shooter is executed last

Families with psychopaths would “fix them” fast themselves before they ever got near a school after a few of these events.

Never go full North Korea.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

Never go full North Korea.

NK would be feeding his family to piranhas

 

[Picton]

There is a real solution but it wouldn’t be popular:

Any time a shooter shoots up a school

1) his entire family to two relationship hops are rounded up and held pending results of his trial if he lives and then

2) all rounded up relatives are publicly executed by a firing squad to include volunteer parents of the dead children with the shooter forced to watch (if still alive) and then

3) the shooter is executed last

Families with psychopaths would “fix them” fast themselves before they ever got near a school after a few of these events.

Do you really want to live in a place where the government can do that? I don't.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

Do you really want to live in a place where the government can do that? I don't.

We could leave it up to the families of the dead children

 

[amb]

I know some teachers carry unlawfully. They know it too. It’d be great if they didn’t have to worry about GFZ.

The whole Mass GFZ thing has a solid carve-out for anyone with "the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of the elementary or secondary school, college or university". Has anyone there ever asked?

My experience with a couple of Massachusetts universities is that there is a clear and well-worn path to get that authorization. Might not be featured on the web site, but ask the right person and they whip out the form without blinking. (It's still the very essence of "may issue", but I guess I'm a good stand-up philosopher.) Universities are very very different from public schools, but still I wonder if they'd be more tractable right now if someone asked.

 

[Picton]

The whole Mass GFZ thing has a solid carve-out for anyone with "the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of the elementary or secondary school, college or university". Has anyone there ever asked?

My experience with a couple of Massachusetts universities is that there is a clear and well-worn path to get that authorization. Might not be featured on the web site, but ask the right person and they whip out the form without blinking. (It's still the very essence of "may issue", but I guess I'm a good stand-up philosopher.) Universities are very very different from public schools, but still I wonder if they'd be more tractable right now if someone asked.

I've always been more of a DADT kind of guy...

In the public high schools, I've had good administrators, bad administrators, and average administrators, and I can't think of a single one who'd stick their neck out far enough to put permission to carry in writing. I can also imagine blowback simply from asking.

It's a delicate issue. It shouldn't be, but it is.