21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

[MagGus1820]

Schooling is another child-raising responsibility American parents have handed off to the government and low and behold, everyone is shocked it's all a mess. With most calling for the gov to do more. This country is depressing, NO ONE is looking to take responsibility AWAY from the government.

If you want to stop school shootings, close government schools.

 

[pastera]

I'm not familiar with such a system. I imagine that it works from outside in only? Otherwise propping one door open effectively locks people inside

Serial doors with magnetic locks where one one can be released at a time - very effective at stopping tail gaiting.
The system disarms the mag locks when the fire alarm goes off.

Completely unnecessary for a school - if the teachers need to go in/out then they should go through the front or be issued keys or key cards to re-enter

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

No school system can afford guards on every door. Every day. Staying alert when literally nothing is going on for weeks on end.

True, but all the doors should have an open or unlocked too long timeout alarm locally and a remote alert to administrators. And that local alarm should be as annoying as possible to prompt action and dissuaded recurrences, perhaps even one that can only be shut off be an administrator investigating the scene.

 

[Picton]

if the teachers need to go in/out then they should go through the front or be issued keys or key cards to re-enter

They are, in new construction. Unfortunately, some of them are lazy. And that also doesn't account for the dozens of part-time coaches and players who prop doors after hours.

True, but all the doors should have an open or unlocked too long timeout alarm locally and a remote alert to administrators. And that local alarm should be as annoying as possible to prompt action and dissuaded recurrences, perhaps even one that can only be shut off be an administrator investigating the scene.

I would love this.

A prior principal investigated this exact solution about ten years ago? Maybe 15? Back then we had real problems with tardy kids getting their friends to go out on a bathroom pass and let them into the rear doors. Neither the school committee nor the fire department would let her put in door alarms, but I remember she fought it tooth and nail.

 

[June4th]

When I was calling on Liberty Mutual's HQ at Portsmouth NH, they issued you an HID card, and it allowed one person to go through a rotary door that turns 1/3 at a time, and you use the same badge to activate the door from inside on the way out. The security system also prevents anyone existing without having 'got in' previously. Adding a metal detection element and you can prevent a shooter with card access (set the magnetometer sensitivity to low to filter out false positives).

I've also seen data centers and banks in crime-ridden 3rd-world countries using 2-door man-trap systems that can be effective too. None of these options are all that expensive to implement.

Such a system doesn't scale for a rush of 500 students but improved versions can definitely push the security perimeter outside of school buildings, or simply turn on the man-trap capability when school is already in session.

None of these options are being discussed. All you hear from pols and the media is their screaming for your guns.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Had to get my wife an inspection sticker this morning and while in the waiting room they had NECN on. They were discussing the strict gun laws in NY with more coming down the pike. A reporter went through Manhatten and asked a number of people what they thought of the gun laws in NY and how to make places more safe from criminals. I was surprised to see that every one they showed voiced concerns about how strict gun laws were, that NY should spend more time on mental health and one street vendor went so far as to say that new gun laws will not stop anything. Criminals will still have guns while normal people wont he said. I was pretty surprised at the comments seeing were were getting them from NYC. Maybe they are not as lost as we thought. Well, at least a percentage of that population has a clue.

 

[The Anchor]

1. they want your guns.
2. see #1

#3 - don't feed the troll

 

[SteelShooter]

Two on each door?

My current building has at least seven doors I can think of off the top of my head, and it's on the smaller side. That's fourteen people...

Where I went to high school, in southern California, the number of ways onto that campus was (and still is) literally infinite. There are many, many buildings, each with at least 3-5 access doors. Some of the classrooms open directly out into the open air.

No school system can afford guards on every door. Every day. Staying alert when literally nothing is going on for weeks on end.

So, it's just about the money? And probably nothing happens for years on end. 190K schools and ~25 school shootings. I was being hyperbolic, but my point was, we can make it so schools are not always soft targets, We must make it so schools are not always soft targets. My wife and daughter work in public schools everyday, so there needs to be a solution on site. It's not making some laws and then hoping they work at some point (which they won't). The only other solution is to harden the targets.

They're doing the whole Covid thing all over again. Only the vax will work, it can't be treated any other way, when we know thats not true. Same with the shootings, only gun control can work, nothing else.

 

[Picton]

So, it's just about the money? And probably nothing happens for years on end. 190K schools and ~25 school shootings. I was being hyperbolic, but my point was, we can make it so schools are not always soft targets, We must make it so schools are not always soft targets. My wife and daughter work in public schools everyday, so there needs to be a solution on site. It's not making some laws and then hoping they work at some point (which they won't). The only other solution is to harden the targets.

Is the money spent on this not important, too? You can't just blithely gloss over it: every "trained professional armed guard" means one less teacher, and from where I sit overcrowded classrooms are a much bigger problem in schools than shooters are. So you can't pretend the money doesn't matter.

The bigger problem? Ask anyone who's ever guarded, say, a motor pool in the military. You're there on the one in a million chance that someone might someday come in and mess with the vehicles, but you know in the back of your mind that that's never really going to happen. School shootings are exceptionally rare. I've guarded that motor pool; I've been in that situation. I've lost my mind with boredom, watching an access point where nothing's happened, nothing's happening, and nothing's going to happen. The problem is money, yes, but it's also vigilance.

I've said before in this thread that my school posts every year for jobs like that, and we never ever get any nibbles. Never. I'm not sure why NES thinks there's this massive reserve of ex-SEALs in every community looking to bravely guard the schools: they just don't exist.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

So, it's just about the money? And probably nothing happens for years on end. 190K schools and ~25 school shootings. I was being hyperbolic, but my point was, we can make it so schools are not always soft targets, We must make it so schools are not always soft targets. My wife and daughter work in public schools everyday, so there needs to be a solution on site. It's not making some laws and then hoping they work at some point (which they won't). The only other solution is to harden the targets.

They're doing the whole Covid thing all over again. Only the vax will work, it can't be treated any other way, when we know thats not true. Same with the shootings, only gun control can work, nothing else.

Spend the money. If for <whatever reason> psychopaths are attacking children in schools, f*** them and lineup the SWAT teams outside each and every school.

Take schools off the list of places you can kill people.

It may just move the targeting to other soft targets but I would argue grownups can use 2A and/or armed paid private security for those.

And don’t worry…the Guberment has already spared NO EXPENSE of your money to protect themselves. Ie: been to DC lately??

 

[SteelShooter]

Is the money spent on this not important, too? You can't just blithely gloss over it: every "trained professional armed guard" means one less teacher, and from where I sit overcrowded classrooms are a much bigger problem in schools than shooters are. So you can't pretend the money doesn't matter.

The bigger problem? Ask anyone who's ever guarded, say, a motor pool in the military. You're there on the one in a million chance that someone might someday come in and mess with the vehicles, but you know in the back of your mind that that's never really going to happen. School shootings are exceptionally rare. I've guarded that motor pool; I've been in that situation. I've lost my mind with boredom, watching an access point where nothing's happened, nothing's happening, and nothing's going to happen. The problem is money, yes, but it's also vigilance.

I've said before in this thread that my school posts every year for jobs like that, and we never ever get any nibbles. Never. I'm not sure why NES thinks there's this massive reserve of ex-SEALs in every community looking to bravely guard the schools: they just don't exist.

Ukraine, that's the baseline for the funding, we'll send the 50B but won;t protect the schools. I agree on there are a thousand other things that need to be looked at. The teachers here are going trhough a negotiation with the city on getting a contract, lower class sizes etc. The city says there's no money yet are sitting on $42MM they got for "COVID" expenses

 

[drgrant]

It may just move the targeting to other soft targets but I would argue grownups can use 2A and/or armed paid private security for those.

Even if we're talking about semi-competent people showing up to take that job (some guy that knows how to use a gun and isnt a total wussbag) good luck getting enough to fill that
demand at a pay rate suitable to offset the fact that its one of the most boring jobs on the planet. (@Picton is right there.... most of this is all BS for an event that will never happen)

Lol people talk shit in public facing occasions about saving the chilllldren etc but let's get honest, nobody wants to pay for that shit. Especially not when outside of the MSM brainwashing sphere anyone with a brain KNOWS this is small odds BS.

Nobody wants to hear it but as a "cause of death of children" school shootings are basically bordering on being statistically insignificant. On the other hand, a few hundred children drown in pools, lakes, ponds, rivers, and bathtubs every year. Almost 2-3 times that will also die of cancer. I also would not be shocked to find out if more young children die from
allergens (peanuts, eggs, whatever) every year than get shot by some a**h*** in a school. More school aged children will COMMIT SUICIDE than be shot in schools. (nobody likes talking about that one)

Even if the "cause is noble" I think mostly school shooting BS is symptoms of three problems far worse:

-government corruption (good luck with that) like cops that dont show up when it happens, FBI invent a terrorist program etcs
-A massive failure of mental healthcare and mental health policy in america (the effects of this WRT children outside of school shootings is massive btw, if people were actually paying attention, far more kids will end up in serious mental health crisis states vs being shot in a school. WAY More kids under 18 in a given year will COMMIT SUICIDE than be shot by
school shooters. (if you can't even stop kids with likely known issues from killing themselves, good luck protecting them in a school)
-MSM manipulating the public for political purposes and ratings. (good luck fixing this without getting people away from being obsessed with the news and the faggot 24 hr news
cycle that has basically helped ruin our society)

 

[SteelShooter]

Even if we're talking about semi-competent people showing up to take that job (some guy that knows how to use a gun and isnt a total wussbag) good luck getting enough to fill that
demand at a pay rate suitable to offset the fact that its one of the most boring jobs on the planet. (@Picton is right there.... most of this is all BS for an event that will never happen)

Lol people talk shit in public facing occasions about saving the chilllldren etc but let's get honest, nobody wants to pay for that shit. Especially not when outside of the MSM brainwashing sphere anyone with a brain KNOWS this is small odds BS.

Nobody wants to hear it but as a "cause of death of children" school shootings are basically bordering on being statistically insignificant. On the other hand, a few hundred children drown in pools, lakes, ponds, rivers, and bathtubs every year. Almost 2-3 times that will also die of cancer. I also would not be shocked to find out if more young children die from
allergens (peanuts, eggs, whatever) every year than get shot by some a**h*** in a school. More school aged children will COMMIT SUICIDE than be shot in schools. (nobody likes talking about that one)

Even if the "cause is noble" I think mostly school shooting BS is symptoms of three problems far worse:

-government corruption (good luck with that) like cops that dont show up when it happens, FBI invent a terrorist program etcs
-A massive failure of mental healthcare and mental health policy in america (the effects of this WRT children outside of school shootings is massive btw, if people were actually paying attention, far more kids will end up in serious mental health crisis states vs being shot in a school. WAY More kids under 18 in a given year will COMMIT SUICIDE than be shot by
school shooters. (if you can't even stop kids with likely known issues from killing themselves, good luck protecting them in a school)
-MSM manipulating the public for political purposes and ratings. (good luck fixing this without getting people away from being obsessed with the news and the faggot 24 hr news
cycle that has basically helped ruin our society)

^^^^^ Once again - Nail on the head

 

[safetyfirst2125]

Even if we're talking about semi-competent people showing up to take that job (some guy that knows how to use a gun and isnt a total wussbag) good luck getting enough to fill that
demand at a pay rate suitable to offset the fact that its one of the most boring jobs on the planet. (@Picton is right there.... most of this is all BS for an event that will never happen)

Lol people talk shit in public facing occasions about saving the chilllldren etc but let's get honest, nobody wants to pay for that shit. Especially not when outside of the MSM brainwashing sphere anyone with a brain KNOWS this is small odds BS.

Nobody wants to hear it but as a "cause of death of children" school shootings are basically bordering on being statistically insignificant. On the other hand, a few hundred children drown in pools, lakes, ponds, rivers, and bathtubs every year. Almost 2-3 times that will also die of cancer. I also would not be shocked to find out if more young children die from
allergens (peanuts, eggs, whatever) every year than get shot by some a**h*** in a school. More school aged children will COMMIT SUICIDE than be shot in schools. (nobody likes talking about that one)

Even if the "cause is noble" I think mostly school shooting BS is symptoms of three problems far worse:

-government corruption (good luck with that) like cops that dont show up when it happens, FBI invent a terrorist program etcs
-A massive failure of mental healthcare and mental health policy in america (the effects of this WRT children outside of school shootings is massive btw, if people were actually paying attention, far more kids will end up in serious mental health crisis states vs being shot in a school. WAY More kids under 18 in a given year will COMMIT SUICIDE than be shot by
school shooters. (if you can't even stop kids with likely known issues from killing themselves, good luck protecting them in a school)
-MSM manipulating the public for political purposes and ratings. (good luck fixing this without getting people away from being obsessed with the news and the faggot 24 hr news
cycle that has basically helped ruin our society)

No argument on the causes but I just think of the mind numbing numbers we spend on absolute bullshit here and abroad (trillions) and as Trump hammered on in his NRA speech, we need to harden schools and spend some real dough to get decent armed security there.

I get the moonbats don’t see it as a solution but IDGAF. If we can ever reclaim power we can get it done. Big IF, but it’s an argument worth having.

“The job is boring” is a solvable problem. So is attracting top talent.

 

[jhblaze1]

If someone is dangerous, and we know it, we have a system that includes due process to remove them from society during that period. This is why the 4473 asks if you have "ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR [...] been committed to a mental institution." That system needs improvement, but that should be the answer.

agree, but sometimes we don't know someone is dangerous until they kill 19 people. As usual there tends to be a long chain of missed chances. All kinds of red flags that this or that neighbor, teacher, etc saw but didn't do anything with, and that there's no legal mechanism TO actually do anything, bc we all agree red flag laws are BS. Crazy people don't get tossed in a nut house overnight, their slide into insanity is often incremental over a long period of time. The media also causes a loss of perspective around this shit too given mass shooting deaths are a tiny fraction of "gun deaths" and most "gun deaths" aren't even murders (suicides and justified self defense). A crazy person planning to shoot up a school isn't answering the 4473 honestly so that doesn't catch anything really.

 

[weekendracer]

agree, but sometimes we don't know someone is dangerous until they kill 19 people. As usual there tends to be a long chain of missed chances. All kinds of red flags that this or that neighbor, teacher, etc saw but didn't do anything with, and that there's no legal mechanism TO actually do anything, bc we all agree red flag laws are BS. Crazy people don't get tossed in a nut house overnight, their slide into insanity is often incremental over a long period of time. The media also causes a loss of perspective around this shit too given mass shooting deaths are a tiny fraction of "gun deaths" and most "gun deaths" aren't even murders (suicides and justified self defense). A crazy person planning to shoot up a school isn't answering the 4473 honestly so that doesn't catch anything really.

The only thing I think would help with the 'crazy person' is red flag laws.

The only problem with red flag laws, and before anyone goes off, it's a big problem, is the way they are implemented. It's like finding an across the board answer to the drug problem, there is no solution that covers all the options for someone to do this. I thought I had a pretty clever fix for the drug problem until someone here shat all over it with a reasonable observation I hadn't even considered. If these were easy problems to solve, they'd be solved.

 

[Picton]

It also may mean that some schools have some sort of overwatch role......I'd be fully in support of automatically putting down anyone approaching school with a visible gun of any sort.

Dont ask questions/permission from above.....automatic standing order to put down anyone dumb enough to approach a school who's clearly a threat with firearm(s) visible.

You're saying school employees should be proactively putting down ambiguous threats without permission or legal protection?

So... they do that, and then what? They get arrested, fired, sued, prosecuted, and probably jailed. That's not desirable, for reasons I'll explain below:

Do that a couple times and once its known what the consequences are, the bullshit will stop.....or at a bare minimum shift away from current stupidity

Okay... but it works the other way, too. As soon as a teacher at a school door puts down a shooter and then gets sued, prosecuted, jailed, and ruined? Ain't no other teacher going to risk that either.

So that's not a solution. Like it or not, people like me don't get to go off and do these things without legal sanction. The risks are pretty profound, and remember, the odds of getting stuck in a school shooting remain very small.

 

[June4th]

Is the money spent on this not important, too? You can't just blithely gloss over it: every "trained professional armed guard" means one less teacher, and from where I sit overcrowded classrooms are a much bigger problem in schools than shooters are. So you can't pretend the money doesn't matter.

The bigger problem? Ask anyone who's ever guarded, say, a motor pool in the military. You're there on the one in a million chance that someone might someday come in and mess with the vehicles, but you know in the back of your mind that that's never really going to happen. School shootings are exceptionally rare. I've guarded that motor pool; I've been in that situation. I've lost my mind with boredom, watching an access point where nothing's happened, nothing's happening, and nothing's going to happen. The problem is money, yes, but it's also vigilance.

I've said before in this thread that my school posts every year for jobs like that, and we never ever get any nibbles. Never. I'm not sure why NES thinks there's this massive reserve of ex-SEALs in every community looking to bravely guard the schools: they just don't exist.

I'd get bored out of my mind watching a door 180 days a year. I am willing to spend 10 days each year, however, to be a complete mute sitting outside of my kids classroom (so as not to interfere the classroom dynamics), and to wear a designated uniform (to avoid friendly fire scenarios). If 1/10 of parents sign up to do the same, we'd have coverage enough to deter would-be perps. And you know parents wouldn't be cowards when they are between a shooter and their own children.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that there are private schools using parent volunteers as armed security.

Obviously there are shit ton of laws that need to be changed etc. etc. but ALL OPTIONS should be on the table, it's for the CHILDREN!

 

[SpaceCritter]

Okay... but it works the other way, too. As soon as a teacher at a school door puts down a shooter and then gets sued, prosecuted, jailed, and ruined? Ain't no other teacher going to risk that either.

THAT RIGHT THERE is an even bigger problem the country is facing.

 

[drgrant]

The only thing I think would help with the 'crazy person' is red flag laws.

The only problem with red flag laws, and before anyone goes off, it's a big problem, is the way they are implemented. It's like finding an across the board answer to the drug problem, there is no solution that covers all the options for someone to do this. I thought I had a pretty clever fix for the drug problem until someone here shat all over it with a reasonable observation I hadn't even considered. If these were easy problems to solve, they'd be solved.

Problem with red flag is due process. You also have to create a nostrum where someone thinks its a great idea to punish someone who potentially hasn't even committed a crime yet. Also you'd have to force a 12 man jury trial, no way if a judge is the sole arbiter they're not going to default rubber stamp them all just like they do with ROs. Also needs automatic abilty to countersue red flag complaintant for triple damages if no red flag issued. They should ask if you want to file immediately on dismissal. They won't pick the pro people options they will pick the shit options (judge only, emergency red flag order show trials with fake due process) and we end up with Lautenberg 2..... I don't trust the most wobbly republicants to get it right. Most of the non moonbats supporting RF are all closeted antis.

 

[Picton]

I'd get bored out of my mind watching a door 180 days a year. I am willing to spend 10 days each year, however, to be a complete mute sitting outside of my kids classroom (so as not to interfere the classroom dynamics), and to wear a designated uniform (to avoid friendly fire scenarios). If 1/10 of parents sign up to do the same, we'd have coverage enough to deter would-be perps. And you know parents wouldn't be cowards when they are between a shooter and their own children.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that there are private schools using parent volunteers as armed security.

Obviously there are shit ton of laws that need to be changed etc. etc. but ALL OPTIONS should be on the table, it's for the CHILDREN!

Speaking for myself?

I don't want to rely on parent volunteers.

I want to carry my own damn gun in my own damn classroom. And I want every other teacher to have the same right. I won't even demand extra pay or nothin'. That solution takes less government, not more.

 

[weekendracer]

Problem with red flag is due process. You also have to create a nostrum where someone thinks its a great idea to punish someone who potentially hasn't even committed a crime yet. Also you'd have to force a 12 man jury trial, no way if a judge is the sole arbiter they're not going to default rubber stamp them all just like they do with ROs. Also needs automatic abilty to countersue red flag complaintant for triple damages if no red flag issued. They should ask if you want to file immediately on dismissal. They won't pick the pro people options they will pick the shit options (judge only, emergency red flag order show trials with fake due process) and we end up with Lautenberg 2..... I don't trust the most wobbly republicants to get it right. Most of the non moonbats supporting RF are all closeted antis.

I said it was a big issue. I agree with almost everything you're saying. I don't trust people with that kind of power. But if implemented 'correctly', it's about the only thing that would ever really stop these situations. Again, I don't think it would be done correctly is the problem.

 

[weekendracer]

I'd get bored out of my mind watching a door 180 days a year. I am willing to spend 10 days each year, however, to be a complete mute sitting outside of my kids classroom (so as not to interfere the classroom dynamics), and to wear a designated uniform (to avoid friendly fire scenarios). If 1/10 of parents sign up to do the same, we'd have coverage enough to deter would-be perps. And you know parents wouldn't be cowards when they are between a shooter and their own children.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that there are private schools using parent volunteers as armed security.

Obviously there are shit ton of laws that need to be changed etc. etc. but ALL OPTIONS should be on the table, it's for the CHILDREN!

I would think just having some dads outside the school would be a huge deterrent. Or at least start the engagement further away from the actual classroom. Give the teachers a chance, instead of the first indicator being an armed person entering the classroom. Even unarmed, to placate the sheep, a group of grown men is still a deterrent.

 

[June4th]

Speaking for myself?

I don't want to rely on parent volunteers.

I want to carry my own damn gun in my own damn classroom. And I want every other teacher to have the same right. I won't even demand extra pay or nothin'. That solution takes less government, not more.

I think from a legislative perspective, it’s far less a hurdle to enable teachers who are willing to be armed, than to have armed parents, but we all know it’s pigs can fly scenario.

 

[FormerlyIndifferent]

This era (below) is over, and aint coming back.....

About 31/32 years ago ish, an acquaintance of mine (former teacher) worked at a Big Dump City high school, right in/near Boston. He told me if I ever wanted to visit him, to just "stop by".

I said "Even if you're in class?" And he said "Hell yeah! No biggie!"

Me: "Where's your room?" and he said that it was in "such and such wing", in "X corner of the building" or whatever. He added "If you can't find it, just ask who-ever you see when you walk in, and they'll tell you where my room is".

So....one day about 1990.....I pulled up to this guy's school, marched right in the [unlocked] front door, & asked the first adult I saw in the lobby, how to get to "so and so's room". The person pointed me in the right direction, and I walked hall after hall 'til I got to this guy's classroom. Passed a half a dozen adults en route.....don't know if they were teachers, aides, admin, office staff, or whatever. And at least 1 janitor. (Are they still called that?). Zero sh*ts were given. Most said "hi" as I passed.

I found my guy, we bullsh*tted a little while, I met some of his students (class was in session, I guess.....but it wasn't so much "class" as it was a study hall/social hour for these kids, probably).....think "Sweathogs during study hall"....that was the vibe I got.....and when he and I were done, I sauntered out of there un-escorted, just as I had gone in. No anal check, no sign-in, no pass, no lanyard, no nothing. The walk outbound was between classes, so I was walking the halls among 1000 Big Dump City high schoolers, teachers, etc.

No-one gave a shit. (Granted, at the time, I was about 20, so probably still passed for a high schooler).

Anyway, that's what it used to be like. It was a different world.

 

[SteelShooter]

Problem with red flag is due process. You also have to create a nostrum where someone thinks its a great idea to punish someone who potentially hasn't even committed a crime yet. Also you'd have to force a 12 man jury trial, no way if a judge is the sole arbiter they're not going to default rubber stamp them all just like they do with ROs. Also needs automatic abilty to countersue red flag complaintant for triple damages if no red flag issued. They should ask if you want to file immediately on dismissal. They won't pick the pro people options they will pick the shit options (judge only, emergency red flag order show trials with fake due process) and we end up with Lautenberg 2..... I don't trust the most wobbly republicants to get it right. Most of the non moonbats supporting RF are all closeted antis.

Nailed it again

 

[Picton]

I would think just having some dads outside the school would be a huge deterrent. Or at least start the engagement further away from the actual classroom. Give the teachers a chance, instead of the first indicator being an armed person entering the classroom. Even unarmed, to placate the sheep, a group of grown men is still a deterrent.

Again, where is this NES-phantom group of dads?

They're working during the school day. Or, if they're not, you're thinking they'd just hang out in front of the school, looking around, waiting endlessly for something that's almost certain never to happen? For eight hours a day?

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but I don't see it as a long-term solution. At all. Guarding things is inherently boring. You need to heavily incentivize guards if you expect them to do a good job, and I don't see that happening. Though I'm aware that sounds pessimistic.

 

[Choctaw]

I would think just having some dads outside the school would be a huge deterrent. Or at least start the engagement further away from the actual classroom. Give the teachers a chance, instead of the first indicator being an armed person entering the classroom. Even unarmed, to placate the sheep, a group of grown men is still a deterrent.

We could set up a grill in front of the school. I am sure we could get some local businesses to cover the cost of a dozen steaks every day.

Hell, if the govt can set up clean injection sites and mail out free crack pipes they could incentivize some local participation.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Notably, these two sections are in conflict:

sometimes we don't know someone is dangerous until they kill 19 people.

As usual there tends to be a long chain of missed chances. All kinds of red flags that this or that neighbor, teacher, etc saw but didn't do anything with

The second pretty much paraphrases "Key Finding 2" from the Final Report of the Safe Schools Initiative.

You're right that mental health issues are slow to bubble over, and that our system deals with them terribly. That seems to often be the result of late (or zero) intervention. How much of this could be interrupted if we actually were working to help kids build skills to thrive emotionally?

Again, where is this NES-phantom group of dads?

They're in their bunk with the Teachers GW thread...

 

[Picton]

Nope, these people should have qualified immunity no different than popo

This isn't what you said originally...

You said schools should be doing this sua sponte, without seeking any kind of sanction. Or what else was "don't ask questions/permission from above" supposed to mean?

You're now suggesting a whole new set of legal doctrines be established. And a spurious one at that: QI is an abomination that needs to be eliminated, not expanded.