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21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

Dench said:
I've never seen fire and police fight over IC as the type of call that would give enough overlap for both to want to have IC is quite rare. And in those cases if both parties could not agree then there would simply be 2 IC's on scene. One for the fire department and one for the people who failed the fire academy and became cops.
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More than one IC is a clusterf*** for obvious reasons. Once the other stooges show up on the scene they send / make available an LNO with a package of goods and capabilities. The IC then decides if they need them or not. Even with one IC it can be bad based on who is who in the zoo.
 
safetyfirst2125 said:
Welp. I guess this case closes that argument.

It used to be “you don’t need a gun, call a cop.”
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My favorite is facetious “don’t like the police, call a drug dealer!”

Which is ironic because I bet if you were friends with a drug cartel and called them saying someone was murdering you kid and they showed up, they’d actually handle it in swift order. Drug dealers are very willing to commit acts of violence against equally violent and dangerous people. Unlike, cops.
 
weekendracer said:
Hey, I've never run from gunfire. Pretty damn sure I would have done something different. But throw in the dynamic of a IC who is telling everyone to do something else, I could see some getting caught in a Goofy loop instead of an OODA loop.
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I understand following orders, but when the order given is based off a feeling that doesn't reflect reality or goes against SOP, the order is irrelevant and to be ignored.
 
Artifact said:
More than one IC is a clusterf*** for obvious reasons. Once the other stooges show up on the scene they send / make available an LNO with a package of goods and capabilities. The IC then decides if they need them or not. Even with one IC it can be bad based on who is who in the zoo.
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It depends on a lot of stuff. Obviously more than 1 is bad. However, in some cases it straight up does not matter. In other cases it can create incredibly dangerous and counter productive situations.

In this case, anything but that IC would of been ideal. Ronald f***ing McDonald showing up in his outfit could of took command (or made a new one) and done a better job.
 
Dench said:
It depends on a lot of stuff. Obviously more than 1 is bad. However, in some cases it straight up does not matter. In other cases it can create incredibly dangerous and counter productive situations.

In this case, anything but that IC would of been ideal. Ronald f***ing McDonald showing up in his outfit could of took command (or made a new one) and done a better job.
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Exactly, this wasn’t a known sequestered hostage situation with demands and the jelly on top. This required, level headed, capable split second decision making brains and bodies.
 
Artifact said:
Exactly, this wasn’t a known sequestered hostage situation with demands and the jelly on top. This required, level headed, capable split second decision making brains and bodies.
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Yep. You see it all the time unfortunately.

When I heard the 1st 10 minutes of radio traffic for the hotel fire in North Conway I was so disappointed in them. They had no idea what they needed. And all they really did need was 2 things, manpower and water (just like the majority of fires in this classification). And they floundered with both for a longggggggggg time. The fact that no one died was nothing short of a miracle and certainly no thanks to that boke ass response.
 
Seems mighty odd to me the way these mass shooters pop up out of the woodwork every time the deep state is in need of support for anti gun legislation or distractions from elections issues, or corruption.
Disarming us and bringing in the UN to enforce their version of the 'law' are two of the big items on their wish list to destroy this country.
So now these losers have a win-win on their hands. A big media circus that keeps us laser focused on that instead of whats going on with the mules in AZ. And they are making the police look like idiots when its policy and/or whoever was in charge at the top.
 
weekendracer said:
Taking the statements at face value, the initial 3 cops tried to enter the classroom, the door was locked and they took hits through the door.

I'm not exactly leaning towards it being a clean op by any means, but standing in a locked doorway taking hits is a tough row to hoe.
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I don't necessarily disagree. Tough scene for those three. So you call for backup, presumably. In this case backup arrived... sixteen backer-uppers. And then they all sat around in the hallway.

That's a very, very, very difficult thing to explain away.

There was also an obvious flanking opportunity through the adjoining classroom. Any LEO who had been through that school before (they do familiarization exercises) knew that classroom adjoined, and so did the principal and every staff member. 16 is plenty to breach both doors simultaneously and attack from both directions.

In fewer than 45 minutes, preferably.

Artifact said:
This is a clusterf*** of epic proportions based on everything coming out as of now. Barricaded can be constructed as many other things, which becomes a mute point considering the situation at hand.
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I've barricaded a schoolroom door. It's actually easy to do and very hard to overcome: I've watched police try to bust a classroom door open, unlocked and with the knob turned, and the thing did not budge. ALICE trains teachers and students to do that, so maybe he'd learned it at the high school.

But he didn't do it. Because if they were able to "breach using a janitor's key," then he did not have the door barricaded. Not really.
 
Bonesinium said:
What do you mean? The ones who actually went in and killed the murderer? Maybe they can take over for the local PD who should all be fired.
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But then
weekendracer said:
As it turns out, at least my old guy(s) did the right thing, while off duty it seems. At least one of them. That whole department needs a cleansing if all of this is true.

It turns into a barricaded subject when he's barricaded and normal entry methods don't work. But someone should have been right outside the door/hallway to seal him in there, worst case. It appears no one did that either.
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I'd think If a tac team was there, the US have an explosives expert? A bit of c4 on the handle and you have a little element of surprise
 
weekendracer said:
McCraw: There was a belief there ‘may not be anybody living anymore’ inside Uvalde classroom
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Yet the transcripts from the 911 calls he read directly refute that claim. He’s speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

Gun shot wounds can be survivable. They are far less survivable when you are let to bleed out for an hour without treatment. Even a slim chance kids are alive is still a chance. Man up and act!

So the excuse they didn’t need to take any immediate action because everyone is dead is both ridiculous and impossible to have known even if there weren’t 911 calls refuting it already.

I also find it, what’s the word, despicable maybe, morbid possibly, that they’d even have the mentality of “well everyone is probably dead already so no need to bother”.
 
safetyfirst2125 said:
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“…if and when I run and win, I won’t take the same approach again, letting Democrats let riots destroy cities…I will crack down on violent crime like never before and quickly”

Still talking….
 
mcshooter said:
I'd think If a tac team was there, the US have an explosives expert? A bit of c4 on the handle and you have a little element of surprise
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To give the breachers the benefit of the doubt, I think they'd avoid any explosives in a case like this for the same reason they avoided firing through the closed doorway: for fear of wounding friendlies.

But the door window was already shot out, so... I really want to see the layout of that hallway and the sightlines toward the locked door. It's hard for me to think that twenty LEOs could somehow figure out no way to engage this kid for an hour.
 
Picton said:
My kids go to school.

Millions of others do as well, and they thrive if they've got active and engaged parents and a good mindset. School shootings are vanishingly rare. Remember that. And also remember that schools will develop even better SOPs after this.

But obviously it's a hard choice, and I can't imagine being a grandparent who's more clued in than the parents. I sympathize.
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They do not need more SOP's. Somebody in that group of officers outside the classroom should have had the balls to tell the incompetent IC to phuck off.
 
n1oty said:
They do not need more SOP's. Somebody in that group of officers outside the classroom should have had the balls to tell the incompetent IC to phuck off.
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I was mostly referring to "don't ever prop the door open" policies for schools.
 
HERO Off-Duty Border Patrol Agent Getting Haircut Hears about Uvalde Shooting...Borrows Barber’s Shotgun...Rushed to School...Drags Dozens of Kids Out of Windows, Also Saves Daughter and Wife
www.thegatewaypundit.com

HERO Off-Duty Border Patrol Agent Getting Haircut Hears about Uvalde Shooting...Borrows Barber’s Shotgun...Rushed to School...Drags Dozens of Kids Out of Windows, Also Saves Daughter and Wife | The Gateway Pundit | by Patty McMurray

A heroic officer rushed from his barber to the school to rescue his wife and daughter from the tragic active shooter situation 100 Percent Fed Up reports – Off-duty Customs and Border Protection agent Jacob Albarado was sitting down for a haircut at his barber when he received a chilling text...
www.thegatewaypundit.com www.thegatewaypundit.com
 
mcshooter said:
But then


I'd think If a tac team was there, the US have an explosives expert? A bit of c4 on the handle and you have a little element of surprise
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Or f***in throw in some flash bangs, stun grenades, gas him, a firehose...If there no windows kill the power and go in with night vision. I'm just throwing shit out there. A f***in firehouse would have worked. Get a backhoe and rip the roof off.
 
weekendracer said:
There may actually be some good information coming out, the on scene 'commander' has been called out:

McCraw: There was a belief there ‘may not be anybody living anymore’ inside Uvalde classroom​

Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said Friday that when officers were responding to Robb Elementary School, “there was a barrage – hundreds of rounds were pumped in, in four minutes,” into two classrooms inside the school.
“Any firing afterwards was sporadic and it was at the door,” McCraw continued. “So the belief is that there may not be anybody living anymore and that the subject is now trying to keep law enforcement at bay or enticing them to come in and suicide [by cop].”
McCraw made the remark after saying the incident commander on-scene, Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Chief of Police Pete Arredondo, made a decision to transition the law enforcement response to the event toward a barricaded subject situation, and away from an active shooter one.
McCraw later called it the “wrong decision, period.”

They aren't circling the wagons on this one, good to hear. This needs to be a learning event, those kids paid a hard price for us to not learn.
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This is not even plausible. They were receiving 911 calls from adults and children IN the affected classrooms. I've answered 911 phones. This information gets passed along to the IC. Either 911 FAILED to pass along the information OR 911 did pass along the information, but the information was not competently acted upon. Either way, this is a clusterphuck of epic proportions.
 
n1oty said:
They do not need more SOP's. Somebody in that group of officers outside the classroom should have had the balls to tell the incompetent IC to phuck off.
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It’s not how it works, but, realistically, that is what border folks did. Twice ( first was pulling other kids from behind the school).

As I understand cops never entered school.
 
Picton said:
the breachers the benefit of the doubt, I think they'd avoid any explosives in a case like this for the same reason they avoided firing through the closed doorway: for fear of wounding friendlies.

But the door window was already shot out, so... I really want to see the layout of that hallway and the sightlines toward the locked door. It's hard for me to think that twenty LEOs could somehow figure out no way to engage this kid for an hour.
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In regards to the classroom's door window having already been shot out, I have been wondering why the nineteen officers standing outside didn't drop a flash bang grenade in through the window, breach the door, storm the room and take the shooter out. I can't believe the classroom door is reinforced to the extent that only a key can open it.
 
commodon said:
In regards to the classroom's door window having already been shot out, I have been wondering why the nineteen officers standing outside didn't drop a flash bang grenade in through the window, breach the door and take the shooter out. I can't believe the classroom door is reinforced to the extent that only a key can open it.
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I, too, have many questions. I deal with a lot of school doors, and... well. It's one of the 1,334 other things here that just seems fishy.
 
G4Y4HK said:
My liberal Californicuck friends are calling for door to door, block by block, town by town gun confiscations. Everyone with an "illegal gun" gets it taken away by SWAT forces lol. "Enough is enough with the thoughts and prayers". Anyone else here welcome that plan in action? Would be some serious drama to look forward to.
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Did you ask them when they plan to kit up and lead the stack ?
 

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