21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

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HuntMaine

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I’ll bring the thoughts and prayers, and the two body bags since you both will be immediately ambushed and outgunned by the AR
Yeah because an 18yr old with zero training, only having the firearms for days is going to be better than a trained person Who has being using and training with his firearm for years. Wait, what?
 
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it means if they're barricaded, they have a defensive perimeter which would be tougher for LE to move on, so SOP is to wait for the suspect to move or make a rash decision before moving in on them.
Where could the intel for this possibly have come from to make that decision?
If there was only 1 child in the building on a Saturday you take action.
They had to get a key from a janitor? Are you f'ing kidding me? Since when do they not want to bust down a door? Oh, it was a heavy strong door? Lay on the ground and shoot up at the latch so you don't hit any friendlys.
They are responsible for our, and our children's safety, just like a parent for their own child. You don't wait outside while the children are being executed by a single person.

Firefighters routinely run into burning buildings while the rats are running out. When someone is murdering your children, you go after them, viciously.

Those guys were f'ing cowards, and the guys that obeyed the officer in charge not to go in are f'ing cowards.

I can't believe that I had to write this.
 
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I’ll bring the thoughts and prayers, and the two body bags since you both will be immediately ambushed and outgunned by the AR

Some people aren’t cowards and couldn’t live with themselves if they did nothing and are willing to die trying. And many times those who try do succeed. Nobody will ever succeed if they don’t have the courage to try. There are a lot of these heroes in our history. Unfortunately there weren’t any there that day.
 

Dench

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Yeah because an 18yr old with zero training, only having the firearms for days is going to be better than a trained person Who has being using and training with his firearm for years. Wait, what?

Keep in mind who your talking to. A random guy online with zero training is trying to tell people with training that they can't fight another person with no training.
 
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I see only three reasonable outcomes in holding the cowards who did nothing accountable.

1. They all quit/are fired and pay every dollar they ever made as a cop back.

2. They are charged with felony murder for being complicit in the murders.

3. Seppuku.
 

amb

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No - there is a list or requirements but I hav enot been able to find, or a list of acceptable permits, on line. There are numerous on the BATFE site that make reference to qualifying permits, but I have not yet found the details.
List of states and exactly which permits qualify is here:

IIRC correctly the reason the current Massachusetts LTCs don't qualify is something silly like not having the state seal or similar.
 
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Jesus, this just keeps getting worse.



11:27 - Teacher props locked door open
11:28 - Ramos crashes across street, starts shooting, police called
11:31 - School resource officer drives by Ramos, mistaking a teacher for the shooter after hearing call on radio
11:33 - Ramos enters school through door that teacher propped open
11:35 to 11:40 - Cops arrive and enter, are fired upon through classroom door, stop outside classroom door
11:50 to 12:03 - 19 cops gather in hall outside door
12:00 to 12:15 - Border Patrol tactical team members arrive and are kept out of school by local commander
12:03 - Teacher calls 911 and says where shooter is
12:15 - Teacher calls back and says some kids still alive
12:50 - Border Patrol enters and kills shooter.

I don't see any way to interpret this other than there was a crowd of cops in the corridor outside the room while Ramos was killing kids and the teachers. He clearly didn't enter and kill them all right away if the teacher (and some kids in the room) were repeatedly calling 911.

And what must the jackass who propped the door open (likely to avoid having to go through the "normal" entry procedure after stepping outside) be thinking right now?
 
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it means if they're barricaded, they have a defensive perimeter which would be tougher for LE to move on, so SOP is to wait for the suspect to move or make a rash decision before moving in on them.
Swing and a miss. The Texas DPS is now saying they didn't realize that he was still killing the kids, so it shouldn't have been called a barricaded suspect. Their training was to go in full bore under those circumstances. They didn't do it.

Student calls to 911:
12:03 - whispered she's in room 112​
12:10 - said multiple dead​
12:13 - called again​
12:16 - says 8-9 students alive​
12:19 - student calls from room 111​
12:21 - 3 shots heard on call​
12:36 - another call​
12:43 - asks for police​
12:47 - asks for police​


The student call timeline is difficult to reconcile with the DPS "We didn't know he was still killing people" comments.
 
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it means if they're barricaded, they have a defensive perimeter which would be tougher for LE to move on, so SOP is to wait for the suspect to move or make a rash decision before moving in on them.
There is a difference between a barricaded suspect and mass/active shooter. If at any time a suspect is an active shooter the SOP of waste no time engaging always applies, regardless if he barricades himself or not because he is at all times still an active shooter and the timeline of people still calling 911 shows there were still kids being shot.
 
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