21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

drgrant

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That is the American police officer today.

I don't know aobut "the" as an"all cops are like this" sort of archetype, but things don't look good.

I can say this though with absolute certainty, there are a lot of agencies with a lot of problems and cultural defects. And the better cops are either all retiring or opting out to GTFO of
LE. A lot of the themes I hear from firends in LE or retiring is all the same things. "They tell me I got out at just the right time, its worse now" or "the politics are obnoxious I'm glad im out" etc, so on and so forth. Basically a lot of agencies are doing everything that pushes good cops away and attracts shit tier "its all about muh pension" types to replace
them. There were always problems with policing but it seems like today is a lot worse, from both ends.
 

drgrant

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FWIW, it’s not really my mindset. I don’t believe this was a false flag.

I don't think it may have been planned that way but facing facts a lot of this stuff is way too convenient, and it doesnt help matters that the PD involved is getting shifty and trying to
cover shit up, or has the appearance of that. of course lawyerism says "dont admit anything, ever" so they clam up. They clam up even when protected by QI.

I am not sure about this incident but I do think some of these so called "mass shooting" events are the end result of the FBI's stupid f***ing " let's invent a terrorist program" gone off the
rails. Except that nobody wants to admit that they were in deep contact with the perpetrator.

At a bare minimum it is 110% absolutely mind numbing that Pd/agencies involved are using a shit "stand off and wait like we would with a hostage taker" type of protocol here. An engagement protocol that should have, at a very minimum, changed incontrovertibly nationally after 9/11 nevermind Columbine a few years earlier. what part of "find threat, elimante
it" is so difficult? they did everything 110% opposite.

IMHO whether by purpose or malice, actions of the government officials involved in this shit show certainly fuel a conspiracy based fire. It makes something that was previously considered impossible to easily enter the realm of being plausible.
 

Picton

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I don't think it may have been planned that way but facing facts a lot of this stuff is way too convenient, and it doesnt help matters that the PD involved is getting shifty and trying to
cover shit up, or has the appearance of that. of course lawyerism says "dont admit anything, ever" so they clam up. They clam up even when protected by QI.

I am not sure about this incident but I do think some of these so called "mass shooting" events are the end result of the FBI's stupid f***ing " let's invent a terrorist program" gone off the
rails. Except that nobody wants to admit that they were in deep contact with the perpetrator.

At a bare minimum it is 110% absolutely mind numbing that Pd/agencies involved are using a shit "stand off and wait like we would with a hostage taker" type of protocol here. An engagement protocol that should have, at a very minimum, changed incontrovertibly nationally after 9/11 nevermind Columbine a few years earlier. what part of "find threat, elimante
it" is so difficult? they did everything 110% opposite.

IMHO whether by purpose or malice, actions of the government officials involved in this shit show certainly fuel a conspiracy based fire. It makes something that was previously considered impossible to easily enter the realm of being plausible.

My main thought is that if this is a false flag, they did their level best to be sure it was scrutinized at every possible level, thus makign it harder for them to get away with it. Plus it undermines every one of their alleged objectives.

So if it's a false flag, it's a failure. Regardless, I can't see how the bungled police response would ever have been "planned" by a government that wants to disarm us and let the cops handle everything. Or maybe I'm not clear on what people are arguing here; wouldn't be the first time.
 

weekendracer

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You certainly know that accountability in Government is long gone when that police chief still has his job.
Technically, he doesn't have the same job. We will never know the outcome if he was still the COP of the school district. If he gets re-elected, that town deserves what it gets.
 

Dadstoys

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Id shoot them in the face; cop or not, nobody stands between me and my family. You'll have to kill me, but you wont cuz im better than you. Consider it a promise. To anyone in that capacity who reads this, never hold back the wrong guy, because i will f***ing eliminate you and anyone else in the way without second thought on my way to kill whoevers hurting my family, or innocent kids for that matter. Cowards get stacked with the crazies.
Something along those lines.
You might deal with a hundred soy boys before you hit that one guy , but it only takes one.
 

In God We Trust

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It was one of the excuses they were using for not going in, they were waiting for shields
There are shields rated for rifles, but they are heavy as hell and most departments don’t have them.

In this situation, it would have been nice to have, but it’s not an excuse to wait. Even if all you have is your side arm, you go in and hope for the best.
 

Dadstoys

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I can't say that I'm on board with some of the comments about what should be done to these cowards. I don't wish or want death for them.

I think they should be shamed and be reminded of the lost lives because of their cowardice on a daily basis. Live with that forever. I know I couldn't. If they do go to prison, then I think we know how they'll be treated on the inside.
 

Dadstoys

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I'm not sure why the tinfoil on this part of it.

If they were "tearing down the school to hide evidence of wrongdoing," then they've already screwed that pooch but good: it'd be tough to find/release any evidence that makes TPTB look worse.

Usually, you do a coverup to make TPTB look better...

As for "false flag evidence?" The physical structure of the building won't yield anything like that anyway. That'd all be in the mind of the shooter and his handlers, and by this time the shooter's mind has something else in it, too. For all we know, so would the handlers'...
That would be the "Bingo" moment if it could proved the kid was egged on and by whom.
It's already been thrown out there by the Chans that he was in contact with a "Retired " FBI agent on the Discord site , but who knows how legit the claim is or how solid the evidence is.
 

Waher

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My main thought is that if this is a false flag, they did their level best to be sure it was scrutinized at every possible level, thus makign it harder for them to get away with it. Plus it undermines every one of their alleged objectives.

So if it's a false flag, it's a failure. Regardless, I can't see how the bungled police response would ever have been "planned" by a government that wants to disarm us and let the cops handle everything. Or maybe I'm not clear on what people are arguing here; wouldn't be the first time.
How is undermining their objectives? The Senate is rushing a Red Flag confiscation bill blessed by the GoPe quislings. The DNC is going to get their bill before all the toddler corpses are even buried. Because that's want the wanted and the GoPe gleefully gave it to them with a wet kiss and a handjob to spite the GoP base.
 

Picton

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That would be the "Bingo" moment if it could proved the kid was egged on and by whom.
It's already been thrown out there by the Chans that he was in contact with a "Retired " FBI agent on the Discord site , but who knows how legit the claim is or how solid the evidence is.

Correct, but I don't see why you'd need the building to stay standing to prove any of that.

How is undermining their objectives? The Senate is rushing a Red Flag confiscation bill blessed by the GoPe quislings. The DNC is going to get their bill before all the toddler corpses are even buried. Because that's want the wanted and the GoPe gleefully gave it to them with a wet kiss and a handjob to spite the GoP base.

Their objective is disarmament. Their main argument is that The Government (through their badged police officials) should have a monopoly on violence using firearms, because they can be trusted to exercise that monopoly and we cannot be trusted to use our firearms responsibly.

The overriding lesson from this debacle is that The Government's monopoly on violence isn't worth shit, even when it's supposedly being exercised in an attempt to save a fellow officer's wife, another teacher, and nineteen children.

It's difficult for me to figure out how this helps advance the narrative that The Government can protect We The People better than we can protect ourselves. So it becomes a strong argument in favor of RKBA for the defense of self and others.

"When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away." That's a great argument for our side. How much stronger is it now, when we can be definitive about exactly how many minutes away they are? Seventy-one minutes, in this case.

Armed parents demonstrably would have gone in much, much sooner.
 

Uzi2

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I'm sure they've figured out those kinds of wrinkles. It's a major ad-hoc building project; none of this will happen overnight, unless the tinfoilers are right.

Hell, if the tinfoilers were right, the building would have probably already been razed.

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong, it's a matter of due process. Until a final investigation is done by an agency disconnected from the locals, and it is documented, and the case closed along with all the potential peripheral cases that might spring up because of the response, the building is still evidence that should not be destroyed because of emotional train wrecks demanding it or local government officials covering up for their abject failures.

This is what fences are for. Fence the place off and post a guard if necessary.
 

Dadstoys

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Correct, but I don't see why you'd need the building to stay standing to prove any of that.



Their objective is disarmament. Their main argument is that The Government (through their badged police officials) should have a monopoly on violence using firearms, because they can be trusted to exercise that monopoly and we cannot be trusted to use our firearms responsibly.

The overriding lesson from this debacle is that The Government's monopoly on violence isn't worth shit, even when it's supposedly being exercised in an attempt to save a fellow officer's wife, another teacher, and nineteen children.

It's difficult for me to figure out how this helps advance the narrative that The Government can protect We The People better than we can protect ourselves. So it becomes a strong argument in favor of RKBA for the defense of self and others.

"When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away." That's a great argument for our side. How much stronger is it now, when we can be definitive about exactly how many minutes away they are? Seventy-one minutes, in this case.

Armed parents demonstrably would have gone in much, much sooner.
The building is not part of it.
Whatever evidence that could be gathered , his been at this point.

I wonder if there should be a movement to change that "Minutes away " thing .
" When seconds count , the police will stand around for over an hour. " should be the updated slogan and i'd love to see a liberal argue the point.
 

pastera

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My main thought is that if this is a false flag, they did their level best to be sure it was scrutinized at every possible level, thus makign it harder for them to get away with it. Plus it undermines every one of their alleged objectives.

So if it's a false flag, it's a failure. Regardless, I can't see how the bungled police response would ever have been "planned" by a government that wants to disarm us and let the cops handle everything. Or maybe I'm not clear on what people are arguing here; wouldn't be the first time.
And what if part of the objective is to show incompetence at a local level requiring a shift towards a federal only police force?
And you shift that force around so it never bonds with the locals therefore is completely us/them...
 

Picton

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And what if part of the objective is to show incompetence at a local level requiring a shift towards a federal only police force?
And you shift that force around so it never bonds with the locals therefore is completely us/them...

Anything is possible.

I don't think the government is nearly as clever nor as secretive as many here. I get that. I think they're slow, stupid, territorial, and leak-prone.

I know, I know... "that's just what they want you to think." At the end of the day, it all comes down to what we believe. I don't think the government is capable of pulling off a false flag without it leaking. That's just me.
 

headednorth

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That would be the "Bingo" moment if it could proved the kid was egged on and by whom.
It's already been thrown out there by the Chans that he was in contact with a "Retired " FBI agent on the Discord site , but who knows how legit the claim is or how solid the evidence is.
I may be wrong but I think that was the Buffalo kid
 
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My main thought is that if this is a false flag, they did their level best to be sure it was scrutinized at every possible level, thus makign it harder for them to get away with it. Plus it undermines every one of their alleged objectives.

So if it's a false flag, it's a failure. Regardless, I can't see how the bungled police response would ever have been "planned" by a government that wants to disarm us and let the cops handle everything. Or maybe I'm not clear on what people are arguing here; wouldn't be the first time.
"Certainly us common plebs can't have access to such 'weapons of war' since the Uber strong, brave, and highly specialized police were no match for an 18 year-old boy!"

"Come on man!" ~ The Big Guy, The Chinese Twitter bots have already said this argument a thousand times I'm sure. The gov will spin anything to their favor.
 

vicorjh

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Uvalde Police Chief Pete Arredondo on Wednesday was placed on administrative leave effective immediately.

Hal Harrell, superintendent of Uvalde CISD said Arredondo was placed on leave due to “lack of clarity that remains” in the probe into the police response to the deadly mass shooting at Robb Elementary School last month.


Probably paid leave, of course.
 
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Something is rotton in Dennark, this clown was ordered to stand down for maximum casualties so they could pass another gun law..

Which in this case DOES NOTHING to protect Schools. This entire show reaks of fraud.

Bottom line they're jabbing your kids with a Biologic that they know dam well kills, you think these a**h***s care about your kids ha ha ha..

The goal is and always will be they want your guns...period.
 

kevin9

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Uvalde Police Chief Pete Arredondo on Wednesday was placed on administrative leave effective immediately.

Hal Harrell, superintendent of Uvalde CISD said Arredondo was placed on leave due to “lack of clarity that remains” in the probe into the police response to the deadly mass shooting at Robb Elementary School last month.


Probably paid leave, of course.
ABFT
but really it's TLTL
 

Picton

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Something is rotton in Dennark, this clown was ordered to stand down for maximum casualties so they could pass another gun law..

Which in this case DOES NOTHING to protect Schools. This entire show reaks of fraud.

Bottom line they're jabbing your kids with a Biologic that they know dam well kills, you think these a**h***s care about your kids ha ha ha..

The goal is and always will be they want your guns...period.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but in addition to the infringements we're all pissed about, the bill also does include about $300m for direct security investments in schools, plus a billion more earmarked for other school improvements and training.

What all that means, I don't know. But if it lets schools install (say) ballistic glass around the front office so that the office people can have time to get on the intercom and lock down the school, it's hard for me to see how that's all that bad a thing.

Time will tell.
 

mu2bdriver

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...the bill also does include about $300m for direct security investments in schools, plus a billion more earmarked for other school improvements and training.
I'm sure there were earlier school shootings, but Columbine was over 23 years ago. We're just getting to hardening schools and training now? How did that Uvalde PD training turn out? That's $1.3 billion worth of graft and corruption just waiting to be pissed away. I'll assure you that if this passes, in five years, you won't see anything different for the overwhelming number of schools.
 

Picton

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I'm sure there were earlier school shootings, but Columbine was over 23 years ago. We're just getting to hardening schools and training now? How did that Uvalde PD training turn out? That's $1.3 billion worth of graft and corruption just waiting to be pissed away. I'll assure you that if this passes, in five years, you won't see anything different for the overwhelming number of schools.

I don't disagree. Only the 300m is specifically earmarked for school security, and I have no doubt there's plenty of graft built in. A billion worth.

In general, newer schools (built in the last 15 years or so) can't do much more to harden themselves. Older schools are in dire need of retrofitting. That's where the money is most likely to go. A lot of districts in poor states have shit for money to put into even basic maintenance, let alone security upgrades. They rely on federal money like this, and that doesn't flow down all that often.

Cops are usually funded separately from schools. I don't believe that 1.3bn has anything to do with LE training, but obviously nobody really knows yet. The bill's still in draft.
 
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