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To be fair, it is unpublicized and poorly documented, with little to no public information on how (Partial) Point of Contact states' processes work.Thats the thing, you dont understand how the NH Gun Line works at state police and your ignorance and that of reps and senators is going to lead to NH citizens having no recourse when the biden delays begin
The NH State Police access the NICS database directly and see a persons record and THE NH SP make a determination based on a persons convictions in the DB
This has been pointed out several times but several of the perpetually ignorant continue to assert that the NH SP are just calling NICS for a proceed/hold
I got my information directly from that department and their staff counsel, you got yours second and third hand, you'll have to excuse me while I give more credit to those actually doing the work and the lawyer that works in that group.The fact of the matter is that the NH gun line is running quite well.......there have been issue in past but you can thank one of the people you personally attacked for reaching out to get the gun line fixed.
If we cede control to the feds then folks have ZERO recourse
At least while its in NH a person can make a call within state and get answers
Do more
Complain less
And on top of those errors the NHGL has it's own category in it's own stats for when they mess up (NICS approved but denied by NHGL anyway), "amended denial"Does anybody honestly believe that if theBidenHarris Justice department wanted to deny/delay transactions through their control over the three national databases used for background checks, our state gun line would do anything but dance to their tune?
To be fair, it is unpublicized and poorly documented, with little to no public information on how (Partial) Point of Contact states' processes work.
And error rates like this do not help:
ATF Audits Reveal 1-in-4 NH Gun Line Background Checks Are Wrong
The results of two federally conducted audits performed by the FBI, revealed that the NH Department of Safety's "Gun Line" was repeatedly found guilty of misuse of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System,www.ammoland.com
You're ignorance of the facts is noteworthy
Issues with the gun line were mitigated many months ago after a certain person you attacked made a huge effort to get shit fixed Under the threat of losing their jobs. When the threat passes it will be back to SOP
Biden just nominated Garland to head up DoJ and Chipman on deck to head up the ATF we've never had people running the apparatus that were more hostile to RKBA Could have done this in the past too, but didn't or couldn't. Fight this on the Fed level, don't make it easier by having another gov group that can ONLY make it worse.
Ceding total control to the federal government where we have zero control and no recource is simply retarded You're delusional. They already have this by controlling NICS and the appeal process, and they control/define what a POC is so they control that as well.
At least at the state level we can reform/correct/improve it AND people that encounter an issue have a local in state resource they can reach out to when there's an issue All the state controls, can improve, is the data entry. Everything else is already federal. So ya, if the people at the NHGL screw up we can tell them to stop screwing up. Or we can eliminate them and thus eliminate the source of the screw up.
The simple fact that we were able to improve/eliminate issues with the gun line in short order earlier this year is a simple demonstration of WHY it should remain in NH and not go to the biden administration It also shows that they KNEW what BS was going on and choose to ignore it until their department was threatened with being eliminated.
I have zero doubts that they'll come up with a way to accomplish this, one which also delays buyers in POC/P-POC states. Chipman likely already has a plan to rein in all the "NICS Exempt" LTC states like Alaska.Cant wait to see/hear the hand wringing/excuses from folks once the biden administration starts delaying people en masse
As seen in the study I linked upthread, this does happen!I got my information directly from that department and their staff counsel, you got yours second and third hand, you'll have to excuse me while I give more credit to those actually doing the work and the lawyer that works in that group.
How can you honestly put forward the idea that if a NICS check returns a reason for denial that some flunky at the GL is going to say "let me think about this.... na I'm going to approve them anyway" get real. On the other hand, they admitted to checking beyond what was required, looking for a reason to deny and only stopped that recently. And nothing is stopping them from going back to this.
You keep saying that. But I've told you where I got my information, directly for the NHGL, and applied a little common sense, no one at the NHGL is going to approve someone that NICS comes back as denied. And you haven't given any source. Just you saying. And it fails the most basic common sense test so whatever, go a head and keep saying it, it's pure delusion.Here's the problem with the above
You're factually incorrect
The NH State Police directly access the records in the NICS DB and make their own determination in exactly the same manner that other states do who have not delegated this to the NICS hotline
Still refusing to provide a source. "you're wrong because I say so", whatever you say.And I keep telling you you're factually incorrect.....you either misunderstood what you were told OR were fed a line of bullshit
Doesnt matter to me which.....bottom line is that you;re assertions are factually incorrect and not reflective of the actual processed followed at NH SP gun line
Ceding all control to the feds/biden administration is a strategic failure that provides individuals and politicians with ZERO recourse when there are problems
The source is someone that has had direct access and witnessed it but none of that really matters because eliminating the NH gun line and ceding that function to the biden administration is a strategic/tactical/upper brain function failure no matter how you slice it
Its right up there will supporting HR1 which federalizes elections......
still refusing to identify your sourceThe source is someone that has had direct access and witnessed it but none of that really matters because eliminating the NH gun line and ceding that function to the biden administration is a strategic/tactical/upper brain function failure no matter how you slice it
Its right up there will supporting HR1 which federalizes elections......
not worth a dam thing since the changes came AFTER they were threatened with closure.FWIW the stats on the NH Gun Line for last month were average processing time was under 4 mins so lets not pretend that there was an unsolveable problem......and the ammoland BS someone posted was circa 2016 iirc.
If the Fed shuts down a POC's access to NICS, the POC is shut down. That's control.Feds dont have control when state performs the checks......let me remind you that the state is the entity that provides records to NICS......and NH could in future refuse to provide records
Again, you're failing to think/act strategically.........its the RKBA equivalent of supporting HR1 and nationalizing elections where we have ZERO recourse/control
Keep biting your nose to spite your face.....
Feds control all three databases which both they and the state POC check; some state POCs also run state-level checks, which sometimes contain more detailed information which can result in the state POC denying (or approving!) a request contrary to what NICS indicates.Feds dont have control when state performs the checks......let me remind you that the state is the entity that provides records to NICS......and NH could in future refuse to provide recordsand the Fed already has control, both by controlling the NICS DB and that they determine what and how a POC does what it does. So total BS
Again, you're failing to think/act strategically.........its the RKBA equivalent of supporting HR1 and nationalizing elections where we have ZERO recourse/control
Keep biting your nose to spite your face.....
Which is why we need to be wary of the "Charleston Loophole" bill, efforts to repeal the "Default Proceed" facet of the Brady act.If the Fed shuts down a POC's access to NICS, the POC is shut down. That's control.
If the POC refuses to provide records, the Fed shuts them down and stops NICS checks, and now none gets approved. That's control.
So the Fed has control and unless the Fed laws are changed they will continue to have control. Our POC is nothing to them.
The feds control the info they have.......which doesnt mean that a state cant choose to stop reporting records at some point in the future
The cognitive failure of 42 and similarlly cognitively challenged folks that support HB 141 is that they fail to comprehend that when the STATE performs the check they look at the records themselves and make a determination themselves as you note.
There's quite literally NOTHING good that will come from NH ceding this function to the Biden administration
Its tragic that so few people are capable of strategic planning/action........something the dems are very very good at.......its just another example of the so called RKBA community shooting themselves in the head
I guess I’m just one of those many deplorables againAgain....because people are not thinking stategically......
Instead y'all run around insulting the one person thats done more to secure and protect your rights than any person who's served in the NH House in decades.
Getting rid of the gun line and ceding that to the feds is right up there with nationalizing electiion law/process/requirements.....its a guaranteed failure.
I have never insulted Rep. John Burt or Rep. Norman Silber. Hoell on the other hand seems more obsessed with Covid closures, churches and abortions etc.Again....because people are not thinking stategically......
Instead y'all run around insulting the one person thats done more to secure and protect your rights than any person who's served in the NH House in decades.
Getting rid of the gun line and ceding that to the feds is right up there with nationalizing electiion law/process/requirements.....its a guaranteed failure.
Because the Brady law put a 5-day waiting period on handgun purchases unless the state had its own M.O. of running background checks for it.I guess the question I have is if the NH gun line is so good how come no one has ever tried to get them to handle checks for rifles and shotguns?
Every time I bring this up someone gets bent but in NH there are definitely instances of people who pass a NH POC check and are denied by the feds.
The FFL I go to also said some people get Delay via the feds and no issues via NH POC - he had asked how I wanted my "pistol" lower run through as it could go either way.
My suspicion is its people with petty crime or annulled convictions from NH where the state POC gets it immediately and the feds can get hung up. NH is a little special in that area, people can get in a whole lot of trouble, serve lots of time, yet eventually be cleared administratively (as it should be).
This seems completely bizarre to me, it's likely a corner case, although I can see a case where dumbo LEEP computer somehow produces a fast, hard DENIAL
A fun question- for those who might know- are the NHGL people allowed to override a NICS decision based on collecting evidence they have to the contrary of the FBI NICS
determination? I know they can do it for identity issues (because that can be fixed, or resolved, or the examiner can figure out the "real person" etc )
Lol that's fun, considering that they're supposed to use the GL for a lower. The gun line literally asks you that, its one of the first questions. "Handgun or Other ?" Of course the law
could be vague enough that they could use the feds for "Other" but im not aware of most NH shops using LEEP for that.
The delay thing I buy- if only because of mistaken identity issues. The GL can escalate immediately to that level, whereas the feds the dumbo level 1 examiners seemingly cant or arent
allowed to figure that shit out.
Maybe.
Part of the problem with these f***ing background check systems is its a goddam black box.
So when we have gun people bringing bills it looks like a f***ing clown show because nobody is able to tell anyone else exactly how it works.
Like for example in this case, NH Reps should have been able to attend a dog and pony show with NHGL personnel to see how the system actually works in contrast to the
federal one. So that, you know, someone could make an informed decision.
Not sure about our gun line specifically, but in the study I linked to, about a quarter of cases where Fed would've denied, the Georgia or Oregon POC gave a proceed -- most common reason were cases of an arrest for a domestic violence misdemeanor which resulted in a conviction for a lesser offense, just because of how the arrest+conviction is coded in NICS versus in the state database.This seems completely bizarre to me, it's likely a corner case, although I can see a case where dumbo LEEP computer somehow produces a fast, hard DENIAL
A fun question- for those who might know- are the NHGL people allowed to override a NICS decision based on collecting evidence they have to the contrary of the FBI NICS determination? I know they can do it for identity issues (because that can be fixed, or resolved, or the examiner can figure out the "real person" etc )
A little topic drift.Not sure about our gun line specifically, but in the study I linked to, about a quarter of cases where Fed would've denied, the Georgia or Oregon POC gave a proceed -- most common reason were cases of an arrest for a domestic violence misdemeanor which resulted in a conviction for a lesser offense, just because of how the arrest+conviction is coded in NICS versus in the state database.
The entire NICS scheme is wholly unconstitutional but given that its current law, retaining as much of this imperfect process here in NH allows us and people wrongly denied, the most control over it.
Passing 141 was a strategic mistake and is just bad policy
This......the passage of 141 was about politics instead of good policy and strategic/tactical planning.
Should be interesting to see what the Governor does
Messing with staffing/responsiveness isn't the only way to cause headaches for buyers; Plenty of ways the Harris-Biden administration can FUBAR the mandatory NICS checks (e.g. "No Fly = No Buy") which would also hit POC/PPOC states.They completely/totally missed the salient point that the entire argument revolves around
That the NH SP interact directly with the FBI database and see the records/make a determination.....instead of the FBI giving them a proceed/halt
If NH was going to be strategic about this then it would roll long gun sales into the existing gun line and add/force improvements to the NH process.......that way they retain control when we all see on the horizon the current administration effing with NICS check staffing/responses