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Discussion in 'Mil Surp Collectors' started by mac1911, Feb 28, 2019.
pits are moving along
IF I show up I will be shooting my 1903a3 that I have been shooting cast loads in for years. This will be the first time I have run Jacketed ammo in this rifle for a long time. I ran out and did a quick Zero check and it shoots a tad high with jacketed ammo/ Running the Nosler 155s with 46 grains of H4895 for around 2600fps . I cant tell these days if its the load or my eyes but looks like 10 ring capable so good enough!
First shot went high? then it settled in ....under 3moa good for my eyes lately!
Sure would be nice to have pit service. Us old farts lose the holes once they go into the black. Guessing it will be ready for the next MM? I'd bring AR-bomination for that if yes. Otherwise can't see the holes. Fat chance I'll beat my last MM with the Bula, 287-6X, but worth a shot.
LOL just loaded some of the Match Monster (generic Nosler CC's) 155's for the M1. Going to try them slightly hotter to see how well they settle in. I'll know tomorrow- planning a quick range trip to test. My eyes will suck since I just got home last night and am recovering from the jet lag. I might have some 155's already loaded for the '03.
Someone who hasn't shown up in a while offered to drive, so I'll do my best to make the match on Sunday. Heading overseas again on Monday so it's possible I might need to take care of sh!t at home instead of going to the match.
cool, hope i get there also. Goingto give me rear sight a few clicks right and use a center hold (if I can see well enough) and hope im centered in the black...
One of the matches this season I could have closed my eyes and scored just as high. Crappy eye day. Hopefully good next week if I make it.
Seems that the cheap 155's tighten up a bit with a little more juice. First shot went very high- brass was pretty beat up on that case, plus I had just cleaned the chamber and bore:
First shot brass ejected at 1:00, next four at 4:00 as did the next ten shots. Guess I don't have to pitch those cheap bullets. Rest of my shots weren't as nice as the last four, but still GTG for the match.
The 155s "palma" bullets , I think thats where the 155s came from? Seem to like to be pushed. Seems like 2600 fps is a zone that covers alot of ground from 110-175s
Franco Special, 1:12 Krieger barrel. Match Monster / blem Nosler CC's. Varget. Pushing them a bit harder than 2700.
So I ran into one of smartest guys i know about shooting.
He must remeber every conversation as he starts asking me all these questions about my 308 build. Thats the last time i seen him. Been a while.
After a few minutes he says , what barrel did you go with .
Criterion 1/10. Very good choice he says. i go on to ask about why the shift to 1/12 twist for the 155s.
Ahh he says, now some real questions.
See what happens is there is a thresh hold that if pass it your bullet will either self destruct or not stabilize.
Then he goes on
"Start with bullets. If they are not made well the faster RPMs will show up any defects in centrifugal forces applied.
If the bullet core is not quality and the jacket not uniform and they are not put together well the faster the RPMs the more the bullet will not fly well."
Now he says the end use is a key factor.
"As you know from shooting all kinds of shit through your rifle from cast to light fmj's you can get good accuracy from 1/10
1/10 covers a lot of ground because of "velocity" most folks and guns for that matter with 30 cal are going to be running between 2400-2700 fps. now get into bench rest and long range 1000 yard shooting you need velocity to hang on outto the target. Push a marginal bullet to 3000fps in a 1/10 well it might just self destruct like M193 and cheap 223 can do in a 1/7 vs 1/9"
"We also know from testing the higher RPM equates to more damage to the target be it mammals of such intended. ( he never says humans/enemies )"
in the end he basically says " with the common 30 cal battle rifles of 20-24" barrel your not going to get those higher velocities anyway before you get to those loads pressing the limits of your platform especially the semi autos.
Now hes says "with out going home and getting specifics I can tell you your average 308 bullet from 150 to 175s are generally going to have a sweet spot between 145,000 rpm and 175,000 fps how you want to get there with velocity or barrel twist is what you need to figure out. "
He says in the end "You need to run what you brung and try stuff. We had data that would say this combo will shoot and when put down range it does not"
Muzzle velocity X 720 / twist rate in. will get you your RPM.
for example your 155 load at 2700 fps with a 1/12 = 162,000 rpm < look at that right darn in the middle of that old mans BS words.
Damn, need to get that guy to write a book. Or maybe tape a few sessions over beers or coffee, depending on preference.
Actually I'm a little hotter with the 155's, more like 168,000 rpm but still in that sweet spot. Might try a better projectile at that velocity too, just for grins. Anyway, a bit hotter did get them to settle down into better groups.
My 125's were above the rpm's he recommends, but they weren't coming apart. I may need a different powder than Varget to get those to slow down a tad and still have decent case fill. Not a fan of going below minimums and also don't like a lot of unused volume in the case.
Did some digging back a couple years and determined my '03 is more accurate with 168's. I was running light loads with 155's just to be a pussy, but maybe that was not optimum for the projectile, plus I know not optimum for Varget. A tad below minimum charge weight and might exhibit a little case fill inconsistent ignition. Been a while since I've had a decent score with the '03, though mostly it's my inconsistent shooting. 280's one match, 240's another...
thats the 2 globes attached to the 6" blob inconsistency effect!
Yes hes a smart dude. Hard to get out of him what exactly he did for a living. Some say hes was a engineer for the military. Others say he work in propulsion technology . Either way he gives you fragmented info causing you to think a bit. He never really just comes out and answers your question directly. When he brings in any sort of "data" its always on that old ass looking gear fed paper and he often has to explain exactly what your looking at.
one time he said aint nothing really new to understand about bullets and guns they had it wrapped up about 100 years ago. just takes a little time for the material to catch up with the engineering
looks like my 155s at 2600 with 1/10 might be running a bit to fast ? Then again he really did not say what is to fast just said "testing showed best range was "
maybe thats why the 155s do well in my M1a as they are running right around 175k rpm
Now I see why some long range guns are 1/12-1/14 twist. lots of those loads out of 26"+ barrels are pushing 3000fps or more to keep velocity up at distance. So basically you only need fast enough to stabilize the bullet BUT if your running 110s to fat 155s to long 175 VLDs in the same barrel/gun you need a middle ground.
Its funny you dont see more info on bullet manufactures about twist rate up front you really have to dig for it.
Like what did sierra do all their testing in for the MK 30 cal line of bullets?
I know I have read that its hard to over stabilize a well made bullet. I run some 52 grainers in a 1/7 AR that shoot just fine and they are cranking at 3200fps. if I run some cheapy 55s I have they will puff at about 50 yards....poof gone!
the only other person I talked to about over stabilized bullets said that if you spin them to fast the tips tend to yaw up even as the bullet trajectory starts its travel down. ?
now does all this matter inside 200 yards? Probably not. Home bored and slowly drinking coffee.
I have made 55’s go POOF from a 1:7 barrel. Before I realized what was happening they were keyholing and/or going off paper at 50 yds. After a couple went bang and sprayed the target with shrapnel the light went on in my thick skull.
Pits are getting closer but no pullers this week.
Guess I'll have to hope for conditions that help to see where those damn holes are in the black- assuming I can hit the black.
Might be carpooling with @76Too . Maybe I can finish sighting in on road signs while he drives.
Right now I am going to be there! Who knows what happens in the next 10 min!
Anyway have the 155s loaded up for the 1903a3
And a mixed bag of shit for the M1 match. Could be 155s ,168s , M2 ? Just cleaned out the ammo dump draw.
I can see the shots in the black most days at pembeoke with my 27 LER x80 Celesteon
If you remeber and want to check out that little $25 Celestron ask me tomorrow.
Well, now I’m out. Away too long today and stuff to take care of tomorrow. I think Alan is riding with 76Too however.
Y’all shoot straight.
well I hope you snuck out this Am
im about to tippytoe out the door before things change here!
LOL I know that get out the door before something blows up routine. Kids grow up fast and before you know it you'll get through that stage.
No chance for me to make it. Wife's company picnic ran very long yesterday and left me with no time to get some sh!t done, pushing all into today. Need to do a little work on her Rubicon and take care of some house maintenance. I will have a couple spare hours to practice awfulhand at my local club but I just don't have all day to go to Pembroke.
When i l eft there where shooters still shooting.
M1 i went in with a mixed bag of ammo, at least 3 bullet Types, 4 different primers and mystery on powder charges.
so I was not expecting much. Shot my average for prone but tanked in off han with a 61
03a3 shot well but light changed and 30 cal holes where hard to pick up. My sighters went low left just outside the 9 ring. Once i made some adjustments did not see any impacts in tbe white so I just let them fly. Prone hand a nice 3.5" group straddling the lower left 9 -10 ring
Shot my mid 90s average. Off hand was better but I cross fired. All season i have been blessed with at least 1 miss in off hand each match. Messing with any good scores. 267/300
I forgot to take some pictures of the nice rifles in tbe rack.
M1 C!inic and match
I have not one, but two decent options for MM this go around...both weighed and ready to rock. Probably using factory ammo because half my reloading bench is in IN, but will probably still do better than the time I used my AK
I might bring 2 M1a and have personal head to head match, either way I WIN!
FRONTLINE VIETNAM: The Marine's M14
Came across this and still want one of the old school USMC shooting shirts and they have the oven mits!
August 11, 2019
Garand top 3 scores
I had a dismal showing with the garand.
Had one first timer who broke into the low 200s first time out. Good work
Springfield 1903/1903a3 top 3
i snuck in a 267/300/0 for 4th
Pics did not load and im not pulling them out again today?
For next match I am bringing my 2 M1a
GI parts kit / Rock ola and stock SAI
Installed a NEW SAI stock on the USGI build to see if it makes weight and it does. Theres also plenty of wood to be trimmed if I need to cut weight anyway.
Both rifles shoot well the SAI is supposed to have a NM trigger its nice but no where as nice as the trigger job from the local legend.
I can tell you the Legends trigger is a smooth take up through the first stage to about 4lbs then a nice break just under 5lbs
The SAI NM trigger is smooth and leaps and bounds better than any stock SAI trigger I have touched but its 3.5pbs 1st stage then what feels like a long 2.0lbs till breaks by my wheeler pull gauge.
I will be doing my own little head to head match and using a standard load with 168 grain noslers at 2600ish fps
If anyone is interest in any match results or just curious of the different scores posted for cmp matches look here
CMP Club & Competition Tracker | Match Results Listing
The site is a little rough to navigate but the info is there
I'm tempted to do a head to head ARbomination vs. Bula. I'd shoot the Bula first, since I tend to score higher with it. Probably will just shoot AR and M1, since I need the M1 practice before VT.
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