2 Rhode Island school districts to have parents sign storage compliance letter

[Oley]

So you do support storage regulations.

Personally, yes. This is the one (and so far only) issue that I think gun grabbers have a valid point on - to a very limited extent. But, I don’t at all agree with the consequences they think are appropriate. That makes it dangerous - if we wholesale deny that a valid argument is valid, that can be effectively exploited against us.

 

[Oley]

So you do support storage regulations. Do you support them because you believe that government should have a say in how guns are stored in private residences, or do you support them because you're worried what anti-gun people will think if you oppose them?

Bonus question: How about safe knife storage regulations? Or maybe something even crazier - just holding people responsible for their negligence that actually results in some sort of injury?

Both. For better or worse, the Government already has a say in a wide array of things you do in your private home, including even, how that home is constructed down to what you can and can’t use to paint the walls, to what utilities you are permitted to receive (if any). Major appliances have to meet safety standards. Your car is HEAVILY safety regulated - it’s just done at the factory level. Of course there’s domestic violence and child abuse laws. The government is already everywhere. I do think, like speeding, some people need the gentle reminder of the possibility of a ticket in order to do the responsible thing. Maybe no one here, at NES, but there are plenty of people around being stupid. And kids do, in fact, get a hold of parents’ guns and hurt/kill people or themselves either accidentally or on purpose with some regularity. That’s much different than an adult committing a crime with a gun. And it becomes a legit community concern when the kid takes the gun outside the house - like to school. I also think it’s a weakness in our strategy, as I tried to explain.

I get it. Where does it stop? The slippery slope issue. Valid concern. But I think that also cuts both ways. Unfortunately, extreme positions (as I fear many moderate voters would view categorical denial of storage regulation) invites extreme responses. Which become more likely when there is an underlying reasonable point at play (which I believe there is here - as opposed to with things like AWBs or mag capacity limits).

 

[not new guy]

You should stick around and read and learn more on here. I bet a year from now you disagree with what you've written above.

 

[Oley]

You should stick around and read and learn more on here. I bet a year from now you disagree with what you've written above.

I’ll take that bet.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I do think, like speeding, some people need the gentle reminder of the possibility of a ticket in order to do the responsible thing.

Do you actually believe that speed limits prevent speeding?

And kids do, in fact, get a hold of parents’ guns

100%. Nobody has said otherwise. To do so would be foolish.

Interestingly, this happens in states with strong storage laws. In MA, you're threatened with prison for, in your words, "failure to put a $3 suitcase lock on a nylon range bag." If that's insufficient, and factually results in ruined lives, why should we "compromise" to some half-step?

and hurt/kill people or themselves either accidentally or on purpose

Sure.

with some regularity.

Please define this term "regularity." Statistical data presented by the FBI's annual Uniform Crime Report and similar CDC point to so few cases that meet this definition as to be statistical anomaly.

And it becomes a legit community concern when the kid takes the gun outside the house - like to school.

See above.

I get it. Where does it stop? The slippery slope issue.

Not exactly, but we'll run with it.

Valid concern. But I think that also cuts both ways.

Please elucidate. What two edges do you see?

Unfortunately, extreme positions (as I fear many moderate voters would view categorical denial of storage regulation)

This is a strawman, at best. It is no more extreme to most of this country to refuse the idea of regulations WRT the storage of firearms than of cars or knives. Moreover, the emotional outbursts of the uninformed are a terrible way to run a railroad.

invites extreme responses.

Which become more likely when there is an underlying reasonable point at play (which I believe there is here - as opposed to with things like AWBs or mag capacity limits).

And you close by begging the question. Smooth.

It is reasonable to recommend that people secure their firearms. It is unreasonable to require it.

Another way - there are no children in my home; broadly speaking, there will never be. On the rare occasions they visit, they're closely monitored; I'm talking at least one adult per child, monitored.

Why should I not be allowed to make security decisions appropriate to my situation?

Why should I be held to these ineffective standards because somebody else won't manage their snot-gobblers?

Why should I be at risk of imprisonment, let alone your proposed fines, because I have constructed a different life?

What other human liberties do you feel qualified to pen in, simply because they make other people uncomfortable? because it's "only a fine"?

 

[whatluck]

The former. It makes us all seem unreasonable, as a general matter, to seemingly believe that keeping guns locked up makes no sense at all.

Except you are not entitled to decide what makes us seem one way or another, especially when we're talking about constitutionally protected rights. Your projections are irrelevant.

What part of 'shall not be infringed' are you not getting?

 

[whatluck]

denying that by failing to acknowledge it makes you seem unreasonable and therefore encourages undecided people over to the other side of the argument

And this smells like consensus cracking.

 

[Mesatchornug]

And this smells like consensus cracking.

100% Middle Ground fallacy.

 

[Oley]

Okay okay. Let’s agree to disagree and move on please. We’re not going to change each others’ minds. I’m cordially leaving the chat. I’m sure we can agree happily on 99 other issues.

 

[not new guy]

Thank god that a**h*** who’s worried about what antis thinks about him and who thinks the government should be able to dictate how we keep private property inside our own homes is gone. What a noob. I just wish I could get his thoughts on safe knife storage laws.

 

[cams]

Hypothetically, I think it should be treated like speeding. If you get caught, no harm has been done, small fine, end of story. No loss of rights, etc. If it’s your 20th ticket and then you leave a gun on an elementary school playground and a kid gets killed, yeah, I think there should be a consequence there

So I’m not misunderstanding you, the bolded above suggests to me, since we are talking about security in the home, that the authorities have the ability to then enter your home without a warrant simply to inspect your safety practices and try to ‘catch you’ with an unsecured firearm during dinner or whatever?

The bolded follow up also suggests that they have now entered your home 20 different times so far without a warrant to try to catch you doing something wrong.

If you’re ok with that scenario and the pile of bodies that will inevitably go with it, you’re deeply confused at a minimum. If you’re not ok with that scenario then yes you’re not communicating clearly at all.

 

[Oley]

So I’m not misunderstanding you, the bolded above suggests to me, since we are talking about security in the home, that the authorities have the ability to then enter your home without a warrant simply to inspect your safety practices and try to ‘catch you’ with an unsecured firearm during dinner or whatever?

The bolded follow up also suggests that they have now entered your home 20 different times so far without a warrant to try to catch you doing something wrong.

If you’re ok with that scenario and the pile of bodies that will inevitably go with it, you’re deeply confused at a minimum. If you’re not ok with that scenario then yes you’re not communicating clearly at all.

Of course not.

Starting to think NES isn’t the place for me. Oh well. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

[LakeTrout]

Okay…trigger warning…unpopular opinion to follow. I strongly dislike public school attitudes and practices as much as anyone else here…and they should absolutely stay in their lane and away from ANY political activism (which this is)…that said (as someone who grew up in a responsible house with loaded, unlocked guns and never had an issue) and as a parent myself…guns should be locked up if there are kids or teenagers in the house. We don’t do ourselves any favors as a 2A community when we fight the stupidity but also fail to acknowledge the reasonableness of that as a general matter. We lose credibility.

What’s this go to do with the school district though?

 

[Mesatchornug]

You should stick around and read and learn more on here. I bet a year from now you disagree with what you've written above.

Sounds like you might win that bet

 

[Waher]

School board Nazis need to go eff off.

 

[cams]

Of course not.

Ok good.

Starting to think NES isn’t the place for me. Oh well. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

You’re circling the wagons on things that you say and then saying that you didn’t say that, even though it’s right there. Wait Is this Joe Biden?!!! You sneaky old skallywag you. lol

 

[LakeTrout]

I understand that…and I actually agree with it

You agree but yet you think people should be fined? You can’t have it both ways. Either the state has no authority to force you to lock up your guns or the state has the authority and should fine you if you don’t.

 

[allen-1]

I have two "unsecured" firearms in my home as I type this. Both loaded to capacity, with chambered rounds. One's my ccw pistol, it's in a holster, in a microvault with the lid flipped open so I can get it quickly. The other's my "knapsack" gun - it's in my knapsack, which is sitting on a stool at the kitchen/living room divider.

My wife and I are the only people in the home, we both know how to handle firearms. I'm pretty sure the dogs can't access them and we don't have a cat.

When we have visitors, the knapsack is removed from the common area. If we have the grandchildren in the house, the microvault is closed. When we have parties, the knapsack gun goes in the safe, and the micro-vault gets closed.

Common sense, not "common sense laws".

 

[In God We Trust]

No it wouldn’t. No one should have to remove their CCW and lock it up somewhere against their will. Schools are the prime target for mass murder because the people inside of schools are well-known to be unarmed. Forcing CCW holders to disarm themselves is creating more of the problem and not less of it.

Hmm. Every time I’ve been to my kids school nobody ever forced me to lock up my gun. Come to think of it, the subject of concealed carry never even came up.

 

[Christian]

The collective outcry to the districts that this is happening in should be,

Sadly though most folks will suck for it so long as the bread and circus continues, like good little chattel do.

 

[LakeTrout]

Hmm. Every time I’ve been to my kids school nobody ever forced me to lock up my gun. Come to think of it, the subject of concealed carry never even came up.

I like it…keep doing it.

 

[rogersmithiii]

It's none of there business on who have firearms.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mtiecwd4ic

 

[T-Unit]

what is the law for safe storage in RI?

Unless something got passed last year, there isn't one. There may be something if there's a child in the home, but ammo nor guns are required to have some lock on them.

 

[Buck F]

Hypothetically, I think it should be treated like speeding. If you get caught, no harm has been done, small fine, end of story. No loss of rights, etc. If it’s your 20th ticket and then you leave a gun on an elementary school playground and a kid gets killed, yeah, I think there should be a consequence there.

Except how you think it should be treated is not how it IS being treated. In MA, the simplest violation will get your license revoked and guns taken away. If you're cleaning a couple of pistols and have them on the workbench and the police shows up on some unrelated matter and see them, you could easily get charged in MA simply for leaving them there when you go to answer the door. You might beat the charges but not until after you spent a mountain of money on legal fees and had your guns taken (good luck getting them back).

We're also talking about an article where the school district is requiring parents sign an acknowledgment which is beyond absurd. The speeding ticket analogy is not a good one.

Let's face it, most gun owners are responsible with their guns and no law on the planet will make an irresponsible gun owner or criminal into a responsible gun owner, especially one that treats it like a speeding ticket. Also, as has been previously mentioned, why would someone in a household with no children not be able to safely leave a handgun on the nightstand when they're home? In MA, if they leave the room, they have just broken the law and there's a far greater consequence than a speeding ticket fine.

 

[usp45ct]

while I would not sign such a letter, I would send it back with a healthy dose of DNA on it in various forms.

 

[Woodsloafer]

Did not read through the entire thread but, IMO, anyone sending their kids to public schools nowadays is making a mistake.